2021 PP Returns

[Cortopassi]

Let everyone know! I was 5.77%

[mathjak107]

Morningstar shows about 4-1/2% just following the assets individually…rebalancing could make that a bit higher or lower

[Cortopassi]

My allocations are not exactly pp.

[flyingpylon]

Not sure if this poll was supposed to be strictly for holders of a 4x25 PP, but I made 10.32% with a GB.

I think I get more excited for New Year's Day than I do for Christmas because I get to do all of my year-end calculations.

[mathjak107]

We get to move our yearly spending in to checking Monday

[barrett]

We get to move our yearly spending in to checking Monday

Curious how you approach this, mathjak. I'm 63 and so far I have just pulled money as needed from taxable accounts, as my wife is still working and earning money. I know you've written on here that you use Clyatt's 95/5 rule, but I am curious roughly how you figure whether to withdraw from Roth, tIRA or brokerage accounts and how you approach taxes while accounting for (somewhat) unknown amounts of dividends and interest that will be paid out in 2022.

Just asking because I'd like to move toward only doing this once a year eventually. ALSO, is there a reason you do it at the very beginning of the year as opposed to the very end of the previous year? Thanks!

[mathjak107]

Right now we are using only our taxable accounts …growth has been such that we are 6-1/ 2 years retired and have not had to touch our retirement money ..

We have about 90-100k coming out a year from our portfolio money and about 60k in ss and pension …..

A lot of the taxable account is bonds and cash …..although we have quite a bit of fidelity contra in it.


We tend to do it january because we have dividend and interest fill up the following years money , so after the Dec payouts we see what we need to add for the year

[barrett]

Right now we are using only our taxable accounts …growth has been such that we are 6-1/ 2 years retired and have not had to touch our retirement money ..

We have about 90-100k coming out a year from our portfolio money and about 60k in ss and pension …..

A lot of the taxable account is bonds and cash …..although we have quite a bit of fidelity contra in it.

We tend to do it january because we have dividend and interest fill up the following years money , so after the Dec payouts we see what we need to add for the year

Thanks! So you take out a large chunk at the beginning of January and then a smaller additional amount after all the interest, dividends and capital gains have been paid out in December, right?

And can you please post one more time the version of Clyatt's 95/5 rule you are using? When I search online it seems that it has evolved since he originally suggested it.

[mathjak107]

So we originally filled up with two years cash when we retired years ago .

Of course nothing goes as planned and we had thousands in dental and bought a new car .

So we spent some of the second years money to do that. .

Going forward we took all interest and dividends and started filling up year two again while spending the current year from a separate bucket .

So now we let the second year fill and Dec 31 we see what we have to add to it to fill the new year .

I use the original version of 95/5 .

We take 4% of each years balance …..if it is a down year we take the higher of 4% of the balance or 5% less then the previous year

[I Shrugged]

My allocations are not exactly pp.

Nobody's are.

[I Shrugged]

I have a PP that I've allowed to run without rebalancing since ~2009.
Last I checked:
Stocks 45% (including a large dose of non-US, someday that ship will come in! LOL)
LT Bonds 20%
Cash & equiv. 23%
Gold 12%

So yes, it's out of whack as a PP at this point. This is the year that the stocks and gold finally became enough out of range to be significant. I have not traded anything for many years. We live off dividends, so of course there is some reinvestment that is not happening.

Returns:
1 year: 8.6%
3 yrs: 12.6%
5 yrs: 9.1%
10 yrs: 6.0%

Depending on one's assumptions about inflation during those periods, I'm pleased with the results. Especially considering the bad so-far diversification into international stocks in 2009. Those haven't lost but they have not kept up with FAANG & Tesla.

Edit to add: If I looked at it as the international stock fund being my VP, then the remainder would surely be an in-balance PP.

[I Shrugged]

BTW one of us has an IRA holding Wellesley. That fund's 1,3,5, & 10 year numbers are similar to our PP's numbers. Whether or not it is as robust as the PP, that's the question.

[mathjak107]

We get to move our yearly spending in to checking Monday

Curious how you approach this, mathjak. I'm 63 and so far I have just pulled money as needed from taxable accounts, as my wife is still working and earning money. I know you've written on here that you use Clyatt's 95/5 rule, but I am curious roughly how you figure whether to withdraw from Roth, tIRA or brokerage accounts and how you approach taxes while accounting for (somewhat) unknown amounts of dividends and interest that will be paid out in 2022.

Just asking because I'd like to move toward only doing this once a year eventually. ALSO, is there a reason you do it at the very beginning of the year as opposed to the very end of the previous year? Thanks!

What changed in 95/5 ?

[Ugly_Bird]

4x25 HBPP
3.8% for me

[Cortopassi]

I just rebalanced everything for 2022. Takeaway, a good amount of stock sold, rebalanced with buying of gold and a lot of silver. TLT was relatively flat comparatively.

Only thing I am considering changing this year is maybe taking a stab at selling OTM calls on SLV to see if I can generate a little income. Even if we are talking only 30/40/50 bucks a trade. Something to do!

This is what my allocations look like (reasonably stable for at least the past 5 years, with small tweaks in %s)

[murphy_p_t]

So the real return is about negative 3% for the permanent portfolio in 2021?


front loaded the returns in 2020, anticipating the massive inflation?

[barrett]

We get to move our yearly spending in to checking Monday

Curious how you approach this, mathjak. I'm 63 and so far I have just pulled money as needed from taxable accounts, as my wife is still working and earning money. I know you've written on here that you use Clyatt's 95/5 rule, but I am curious roughly how you figure whether to withdraw from Roth, tIRA or brokerage accounts and how you approach taxes while accounting for (somewhat) unknown amounts of dividends and interest that will be paid out in 2022.

Just asking because I'd like to move toward only doing this once a year eventually. ALSO, is there a reason you do it at the very beginning of the year as opposed to the very end of the previous year? Thanks!

What changed in 95/5 ?

Just seeing this now. I just made a mistake on what Clyatt actually recommended, that's all. You helped clear up his withdrawal strategy for me. Somehow I had 95/5 lodged in my brain. Much appreciated!

[barrett]

I just rebalanced everything for 2022. Takeaway, a good amount of stock sold, rebalanced with buying of gold and a lot of silver. TLT was relatively flat comparatively.

Ah, I was just going to ask if anyone was rebalancing with the big run up in stocks in 2021. Today looks to be as good as any to sell stocks and buy gold or LTTs as the later two are both down this morning.

Cortopassi, for you isn't dabbling in SLV calls kind of like an alcoholic just having one little drink?

[Ugly_Bird]

Ah, I was just going to ask if anyone was rebalancing with the big run up in stocks in 2021. Today looks to be as good as any to sell stocks and buy gold or LTTs as the later two are both down this morning.

those are at 24% and 23% in my 4x25 HBPP.... no need to rebalance.

[mathjak107]

i may take a speculative position in tlt on a bounce after being beat up so much

[mathjak107]

We get to move our yearly spending in to checking Monday

Curious how you approach this, mathjak. I'm 63 and so far I have just pulled money as needed from taxable accounts, as my wife is still working and earning money. I know you've written on here that you use Clyatt's 95/5 rule, but I am curious roughly how you figure whether to withdraw from Roth, tIRA or brokerage accounts and how you approach taxes while accounting for (somewhat) unknown amounts of dividends and interest that will be paid out in 2022.

Just asking because I'd like to move toward only doing this once a year eventually. ALSO, is there a reason you do it at the very beginning of the year as opposed to the very end of the previous year? Thanks!

What changed in 95/5 ?

Just seeing this now. I just made a mistake on what Clyatt actually recommended, that's all. You helped clear up his withdrawal strategy for me. Somehow I had 95/5 lodged in my brain. Much appreciated!

okay , good ...it is very simple to use and the results can be quite surprising in up years .

i am not even sure we need to take out 4% of the balance this year out as the portfolio growth has us at a 200k income for 2022 when combined with ss and pension ..

[Cortopassi]

I just rebalanced everything for 2022. Takeaway, a good amount of stock sold, rebalanced with buying of gold and a lot of silver. TLT was relatively flat comparatively.

Ah, I was just going to ask if anyone was rebalancing with the big run up in stocks in 2021. Today looks to be as good as any to sell stocks and buy gold or LTTs as the later two are both down this morning.

Cortopassi, for you isn't dabbling in SLV calls kind of like an alcoholic just having one little drink?

Oh, yes, I believe you are likely 100% right.

But the difference in the past is I was buying stocks specifically to sell covered calls, and then if I got dinged badly on the stocks (which I did in the financial crisis) I just bailed on the call writing AND the stocks, increasing my losses and stress.

In this case though, the difference is I am holding SLV as part of my PP, and have no intention of selling the underlying or caring where it goes up or down. That makes a big difference in my attitude toward this.

[Vil]

Approx. 4% for me. The wage income for the last year was kind of a very good one, according to statistics I've seen I am in the top 20% of US households. So, personally I do not care too much about PP - its doing its business, I am doing mine.

[Smith1776]

Happy new year everyone!

Here are the 2021 returns for the Canadian GoldSmith PP!

pp.jpg (192.69 KiB) Viewed 4251 times

[Ugly_Bird]

Let everyone know! I was 5.77%

According to the "2021 PP Returns" topic, the votes and replies should be more related to PP
Otherwise this poll is more "2021 Returns" for VP domain.