Trump reelection bid

If Trump announced he was going to run in 2024 would you vote for him knowing what you know today?

Yes
3
15%
No
17
85%
 
Total votes: 20
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Re: Trump reelection bid

Post by flyingpylon » Wed Aug 17, 2022 2:22 pm

It's pretty pointless to debate the last two Presidential elections or the aftermath of either of them. Like so many other issues, people have chosen their side and will see or not see whatever they want to. They are literally watching two (or more) different movies on the same screen.
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Re: Trump reelection bid

Post by dualstow » Wed Aug 17, 2022 2:50 pm

figuratively
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Re: Trump reelection bid

Post by flyingpylon » Wed Aug 17, 2022 3:01 pm

In a world where everyone seems to be entitled to their own reality, maybe it's both!
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Re: Trump reelection bid

Post by dualstow » Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:10 pm

O0
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Re: Trump reelection bid

Post by joypog » Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:34 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 2:19 pm
joypog wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:20 pm
MangoMan wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 12:45 pm
joypog wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 12:19 pm


It’s hard to take you seriously when you make mountains out of Dem GOP missteps and minimize GOP Dem transgressions.
Right back atcha Bro.
Explain how HRC’s words and actions are equivalent to instigating a riot at the capital after months of lying about the election results.
I wasn't talking about Hillary specifically. I was pointing out that Dems (and you, by association) have the same blind spots you claim are specific to the other side. Both sides lie, cheat, and steal but for some reason people only allow themselves to see it across the aisle.
I wasn't speaking in generalities in that initial response to you. If you chose to create an equivalence between HRC and Trump's loss you are damaging your credibility.

If you want to make a generic accusation that I got blind spots. Well yeah, guilty as charged. We're all human around here.
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Re: Trump reelection bid

Post by joypog » Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:44 pm

flyingpylon wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 2:22 pm
It's pretty pointless to debate the last two Presidential elections or the aftermath of either of them. Like so many other issues, people have chosen their side and will see or not see whatever they want to. They are literally watching two (or more) different movies on the same screen.
It's pointless to argue if you think you can actually convince someone else of to change a hard position. But I think most of us agree more than we disagree. I mean, given the poll result, it seems that most folks would agree that Trump did not carry himself honorably after 2020. Given that I'm one of the few libtards here, I think most of y'all would agree with me that Stacy Abrams did not carry herself honorably after 2018.

More than election results, I'd be down to hear about good ideas for improving elections. I've primarily just paid attention to the (lack of progress) on the Electoral Count Act reform. I'm skeptical about broader Federal level election reform, though I am open to the idea it might be necessary

I'm suspect some state initiatives would be worthy of adoption by other states. I'm not nearly as skeptical of the liberal MSM as most of y'all...but if Brad Raffensperger says the recent laws in Georgia are good, he's earned the right to be trusted.
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Re: Trump reelection bid

Post by flyingpylon » Wed Aug 17, 2022 5:43 pm

joypog wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:44 pm
I mean, given the poll result, it seems that most folks would agree that Trump did not carry himself honorably after 2020.
Maybe, but that’s not the question that was asked in the poll.
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Re: Trump reelection bid

Post by joypog » Wed Aug 17, 2022 5:47 pm

flyingpylon wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 5:43 pm
joypog wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:44 pm
I mean, given the poll result, it seems that most folks would agree that Trump did not carry himself honorably after 2020.
Maybe, but that’s not the question that was asked in the poll.
Henced my couched phrasing. Is there anyone that wants to argue Trump acquitted himself well during that period?
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Re: Trump reelection bid

Post by glennds » Wed Aug 17, 2022 5:49 pm

flyingpylon wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 2:22 pm
It's pretty pointless to debate the last two Presidential elections or the aftermath of either of them. Like so many other issues, people have chosen their side and will see or not see whatever they want to. They are literally watching two (or more) different movies on the same screen.
Debating in the sense of trying to convince someone on the opposite side of you to change? Yes agreed, pointless
But examining the last two elections, especially the last one if for no other reason than preventing another shitshow? Worthwhile
Realistic? One can only hope
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Re: Trump reelection bid

Post by boglerdude » Thu Aug 18, 2022 12:05 am

Sam Harris says anything was justified to stop Trump. Presumably including exaggerating the threat of SARS2

https://twitter.com/alexandrosM/status/ ... 4699064320

But I do agree with him that two wrongs sometimes make a right
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Re: Trump reelection bid

Post by joypog » Thu Aug 18, 2022 7:06 am

Harris is a strange dude.

His dripping smug condescension is fun when you agree with him, absolutely grating when you don't.

I don't get how the heck he has such a large following.

He reminds me of Bill Romanowski, a total dirty player asshole, but nice to have on your own team Hated him when he was with the Broncos, but loved him as soon as he joined the Raiders.
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Re: Trump reelection bid

Post by jalanlong » Thu Aug 18, 2022 10:55 am

Xan wrote:
Sun Aug 14, 2022 8:24 pm
Primaries are up first, so I think the poll most reasonably is asking about that. Sounds like everybody here has somebody else they like better. But, could he still sneak through if everybody doesn't agree on who else?

In which case in the general it's the "lesser of two evils" question.
I think the larger problem is that any Republican who goes up against Trump in the primary will have to be careful of beating up on him too much. If you turn off his voters enough then you will not win the general election if they stay home.
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Re: Trump reelection bid

Post by jalanlong » Thu Aug 18, 2022 11:03 am

Kbg wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:37 pm
fp,

Great response. I think I'm near 100% in agreement. I've got a different take on how to get us there though. Term limits.

My observation is that anti-establishment turns establishment fairly quickly. Whether you are a Maga or Squad/Berniesta, they're both batting for special interests by and large...just different special interests (wrapped in the appropriate conservative/liberal talking points of course).

I like to think this is a good government feature not a bug...if you've spent anytime in Washington DC and you don't understand compromise and majority gathering is the only way to get anything done you aren't going to get anything done. Reagan and Clinton were smart enough to know that, Trump and Biden, uh, no. But even if they were...the other side seems to be more interested in "blocking the agenda" than doing what might be good for the people these days. I find the entire system highly narcissistic and interested only in their party constituents vs. we the people.

When professional politicians become the norm the incentive system gets completely out of whack for them, and frankly, for us.
I would agree. Somehow the march of people who go into politics as poor twenty-something, stay for 50 years and become millionaires has to stop. Politics has to become a public service again and not a lucrative career choice.

You have to love the "blocking the agenda" from each side. When Republicans said they would not approve any of Obama's agenda, Democrats called them "do-nothing Republicans" or "obstructionists." But then when Trump took office, Democrats promptly said they would not approve anything he proposed and called themselves "The Resistance!!!"
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Re: Trump reelection bid

Post by joypog » Thu Aug 18, 2022 11:13 am

But we did it with cute pink pussy hats.
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Re: Trump reelection bid

Post by Mountaineer » Thu Aug 18, 2022 12:16 pm

joypog wrote:
Thu Aug 18, 2022 11:13 am
But we did it with cute pink pussy hats.
And all this time I thought I knew what PP folio stood for. Tip of the PP hat to joypog for the enlightenment. 🤭
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Re: Trump reelection bid

Post by joypog » Thu Aug 18, 2022 12:24 pm

Yeah man. I don't know what you do with yours, but I let my PP swing out loud and proud.
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Re: Trump reelection bid

Post by dualstow » Thu Aug 18, 2022 12:33 pm

joypog wrote:
Thu Aug 18, 2022 7:06 am
Harris is a strange dude.

His dripping smug condescension is fun when you agree with him, absolutely grating when you don't.

I don't get how the heck he has such a large following.

He reminds me of Bill Romanowski, a total dirty player asshole, but nice to have on your own team Hated him when he was with the Broncos, but loved him as soon as he joined the Raiders.
I may not agree with every single thing Sam Harris has to say, but i think he has a lot to offer. (Not sure if that makes me a “follower” or not). If I had to limit my audio library to perfect people, I may as well listen to blank tape. Actually, Kate Bush.
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Re: Trump reelection bid

Post by joypog » Thu Aug 18, 2022 12:40 pm

dualstow wrote:
Thu Aug 18, 2022 12:33 pm
(Not sure if that makes me a “follower” or not).
I wouldn't consider a basic free podcast RSS subscription a "follow" in the sense I was talking about.

I'm more surprised that there are enough people who pay money to listen to the second half of his podcast interviews and/or with his mediation app.

Then again I'm a total cheapskate and never pay for content (aside from hardcopy books and eyeball time on ads).
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Re: Trump reelection bid

Post by Smith1776 » Thu Aug 18, 2022 1:26 pm

I haven’t read or listened to all his content, but a decent chunk.

I really like his arguments about free will and find them convincing.
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Re: Trump reelection bid

Post by joypog » Thu Aug 18, 2022 2:20 pm

Smith1776 wrote:
Thu Aug 18, 2022 1:26 pm
I haven’t read or listened to all his content, but a decent chunk.

I really like his arguments about free will and find them convincing.
The danger of being a public intellectual is getting pulled to opine on everything. If he stayed in his neurologist lane, maybe settled into his interviewer gig it wouldn't be a big deal. But then going into political sciences...even strategy!

Same for Jordan B. Peterson. I think he had some interesting notions of psychology and stuff, but ended up just being a wacked out culture warrior.

Then again, we're a bunch of avatars bullshitting about everything....but thank god I don't have a real microphone.
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Re: Trump reelection bid

Post by Smith1776 » Thu Aug 18, 2022 2:28 pm

joypog wrote:
Thu Aug 18, 2022 2:20 pm
Then again, we're a bunch of avatars bullshitting about everything....but thank god I don't have a real microphone.
lmao!
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Re: Trump reelection bid

Post by Kbg » Thu Aug 18, 2022 2:56 pm

+1
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Re: Trump reelection bid

Post by Mountaineer » Thu Aug 18, 2022 3:07 pm

Smith1776 wrote:
Thu Aug 18, 2022 1:26 pm
I haven’t read or listened to all his content, but a decent chunk.

I really like his arguments about free will and find them convincing.
If you are in to free will arguments in great depth you might like to read The Bondage of the Will by Martin Luther. It is definitely not a light read though. It is Luther’s response to the scholastic/humanist Erasmus. There’s also a multi-episode podcast that discusses it - Outlaw God with Caleb Keith and Steve Paulson. Search for an episode called Erasmus and go back and forward from there as you go down the rabbit hole. 🤣🤣🤣
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Re: Trump reelection bid

Post by Jack Jones » Fri Aug 19, 2022 7:08 am

Ellul, The Technological Society wrote:In my conception, freedom is not an immutable fact graven in nature and on the heart of man. It is not inherent in man or in society, and it is meaningless to write it into law. The mathematical, physical, biological, sociological, and psychological sciences reveal nothing but necessities and determinisms on all sides. As a matter of fact, reality is itself a combination of determinisms, and freedom consists in overcoming and transcending these determinisms. Freedom is completely without meaning unless it is related to necessity, unless it represents victory over necessity. To say that freedom's graven in the nature of man, is to say that man is free because he obeys his nature, or, to put it another way, because he is conditioned by his nature. This is nonsense. We must not think of the problem in terms of a choice between being determined and being free. We must look at it dialectically, and say that man is indeed determined, but that it is open to him to overcome necessity, and that this act is freedom. Freedom is not static but dynamic; not a vested interest, but a prize continually to be won. The moment man stops and resigns himself, he becomes subject to determinism. He is most enslaved when he thinks he is comfortably settled in freedom.
Ouspensky, In Search of the Miraculous wrote:"Taken in itself, a man's being has many different sides. The most characteristic feature of a modern man is the absence of unity in him and, further, the absence in him of even traces of those properties which he most likes to ascribe to himself, that is, 'lucid consciousness,' 'free will', a 'permanent ego or I', and the 'ability to do'. It may surprise you if I say that the chief feature of a modern man's being which explains everything else that is lacking in him is sleep. A modern man lives in sleep, in sleep he is born and in sleep he dies...

Man number seven means a man who has reached the full development possible to man and who possesses everything a man can possess, that is, will, consciousness, permanent and unchangeable I, individuality, immortality, and many other properties, which, in our blindness and ignorance, we ascribe to ourselves. It is only when to a certain extent we understand man number seven and his properties that we can understand the gradual stages through which we can approach him, that is, understand the process of development possible for us.
Personally, I've found meditative practice to be useful for developing the property of unity, at least. Unity being the extent to which we are acting as one. Consider procrastination. Our being is split: part of us wants to accomplish something, another part wants to do something easier. This is a failure of unification.
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Re: Trump reelection bid

Post by dockinGA » Fri Aug 19, 2022 8:30 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:49 pm
Okay thanks. Whether or not we believe there was fraud in 2020, the reality is that unless the country can be assured that elections are legit and FULLY AUDITABLE, we are going to have a real problem going forward.
I agree with you on the fully auditable part, but Trump himself is largely responsible for the current belief that our elections aren't legit. He bears alot of the blame in bringing us to the point where the next election could very realistically tip us into a constitutional crisis.
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