Biden’s Gun Plan

[Lonestar]

This is a follow up to a recent 2nd Amendment thread. Regardless of your opinion on the Right to Bear Arms issue, this should be a concerning issue.

https://dailycaller.com/2020/11/24/joe- ... e-in-arms/

Is it prudent to use a frivolous law suite strategy to achieve one's objectives? The objective being not to necessarily win the litigation, but to financially bleed the industry to death.

If this approach is successful, it opens the door for government to control any area of business they choose. As mentioned in the article, car manufacturers may be next. Especially the ones not conforming to changes beneficial to The New Green Deal.

If this approach is not successful, then look for increased taxes and regulations on ammunition, or other firearms components. The left will have their way on "gun safety" ........one way or another. If you are opposed to gun ownership as it is now, you have your right to that opinion. But realize this method of government control goes beyond the this sole issue.

[Lonestar]

[

[Cortopassi]

Totals of intentional homicide, 1999-2016 in the US.

I present with little comment. I do agree that you should not be able to sue gun companies for making guns, unless they are found to be selling them illegally.

The underlying problem for guns is they are by far the largest way people kill other people, so they will always be the target unless that changes.

[vnatale]

The underlying problem for guns is they are by far the largest way people kill other people, so they will always be the target unless that changes.

Even if you could keep guns out of the hands of gangbangers and other criminals (which you know is not possible), London has proved that you can cause quite a bit of mayhem with knives, machetes and acid.

How does England's overall homicide rate compare to our overall homicide rate?

Vinny

[Cortopassi]

The underlying problem for guns is they are by far the largest way people kill other people, so they will always be the target unless that changes.

Even if you could keep guns out of the hands of gangbangers and other criminals (which you know is not possible), London has proved that you can cause quite a bit of mayhem with knives, machetes and acid.

How does England's overall homicide rate compare to our overall homicide rate?

Vinny

Oh we don't want to go down this road again!

White areas vs black areas, threading the needle on all these things.

I own a gun. I likely will never use it outside of a few times at the range.

While corn farmers and the grain industry is likely a largest cause of death from heart disease and diabetes, those are slow, taking decades to kill usually.

Guns, whatever the method: war, murder, suicide, accident, work really quickly, usually.

I need the Star Trek Organian aliens to make it so all guns/phasers suddenly get too hot to hold!

[SomeDude]

Totals of intentional homicide, 1999-2016 in the US.

I present with little comment. I do agree that you should not be able to sue gun companies for making guns, unless they are found to be selling them illegally.

The underlying problem for guns is they are by far the largest way people kill other people, so they will always be the target unless that changes.

Do we have a stat for the far largest way for people to protect themselves from homicide or assault?

Plus I am sure that the overwhelming majority of this was gang violence.

I was reading in the history books that there was murder and violence even before guns. But I think before guns, women and physically weak men had pretty much no way to protect themselves from strong men wanting to do harm to them.

Reminds me of the old quote "God made men, Same Colt made them equal".

[glennds]

The underlying problem for guns is they are by far the largest way people kill other people, so they will always be the target unless that changes.

Even if you could keep guns out of the hands of gangbangers and other criminals (which you know is not possible), London has proved that you can cause quite a bit of mayhem with knives, machetes and acid.

How does England's overall homicide rate compare to our overall homicide rate?

Vinny

Here's an interesting graphic that puts the world in perspective by country. Mouse over any country to see it's homicide rate by firearm. Not surprisingly, the US reigns supreme among industrialized countries. 8x higher than Canada, 10-20x higher than many of the European countries. And us compared to Asian countries? Don't even ask.
But on the bright side, we have a long way to go before we're as bad as Mexico, Colombia, Brazil or Venezuela. From what can see Venezuela wins the prize for rate of homicide by firearm. Another bright spot is that we were worse in 1990 vs 2017 (you can drag the slider to different years).

Who is the lowest? I thought it would be Japan, but it looks like Singapore nudged them out with New Zealand in the pack. There is an almost non-existent rate of homicide by firearm in Singapore.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/homi ... ?time=2017

But what about homicide rate regardless of method. To pug's point, this might include knives, machetes, acid and even death by nagging.
Well to my eye, it looks like it tracks pretty closely with homicide by firearm in relative terms, with a glaring exception being Russia. So I gather they are killing people in Russia in some novel way not involving firearms, enough to move them up the charts. But Singapore still rules, but the UK is keeping company with a homicide rate 1/12 the rate of the US (to Vinny's question). Interesting data.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/homi ... gion=World

It looks like Singapore is wealthy, educated, safe and has health care. But unfortunately it must suck because they don't have guns, drugs or rights. But I digress.

[Cortopassi]

I would totally support a plan that allowed any willing and able person to open carry a gun (after training, like a driver's license). I believe it would result in a lot less deaths.

But, being realistic, that will never happen.

[Cortopassi]

It looks like Singapore is wealthy, educated, safe and has health care. But unfortunately it must suck because they don't have guns, drugs or rights. But I digress.

I do want to go there. I just saw this building on a show. Looks amazing.

[glennds]

But I think before guns, women and physically weak men had pretty much no way to protect themselves from strong men wanting to do harm to them.

The legend has it that this is reason the Buddhist monks in China developed the earliest martial arts. The Shaolin temple being the famous one.

[SomeDude]

physical strength differences between men and women are purely a social construct of the patriarchy.

And that quote is clearly from the NRA, trying to brainwash women into buying guns, like the cigarette companies did to women tricking them into believing smoking was empowering to them.

As a gender fluid who currently identifies as a woman for the purpose of this response, I think women are just as strong if not stronger than men.

Yes, being a card carrying member of the patriarchy is one of my crimes.

As to your second point TF, since women are stronger and smarter than men and to think otherwise is brainwashing from the patriarchy, how could they be tricked by men into smoking cigarettes???

I cannot square the circle.

No one is gender fluid since gender is just a social construct as well. It's not real, but nice try scoring those sweet sweet victim points!!!!!

[vnatale]

But I think before guns, women and physically weak men had pretty much no way to protect themselves from strong men wanting to do harm to them.

Reminds me of the old quote "God made men, Same Colt made them equal".

This reads quite transphobic. Since physical strength differences between men and women are purely a social construct of the patriarchy.

And that quote is clearly from the NRA, trying to brainwash women into buying guns, like the cigarette companies did to women tricking them into believing smoking was empowering to them.

As a gender fluid who currently identifies as a woman for the purpose of this response, I think women are just as strong if not stronger than men.

Clearly you are being satirical. But can you point to anyone who maintains anything close to your last paragraph? All one has to do is look at the Olympic records for the same events for men and women and anyone can clearly see that men ARE the superior sex when it comes to strength, speed, power. Not saying that there are not women out there who are superior in those three categories to me.

Vinny

[vnatale]

But I think before guns, women and physically weak men had pretty much no way to protect themselves from strong men wanting to do harm to them.

Reminds me of the old quote "God made men, Same Colt made them equal".

This reads quite transphobic. Since physical strength differences between men and women are purely a social construct of the patriarchy.

And that quote is clearly from the NRA, trying to brainwash women into buying guns, like the cigarette companies did to women tricking them into believing smoking was empowering to them.

As a gender fluid who currently identifies as a woman for the purpose of this response, I think women are just as strong if not stronger than men.

Clearly you are being satirical. But can you point to anyone who maintains anything close to your last paragraph? All one has to do is look at the Olympic records for the same events for men and women and anyone can clearly see that men ARE the superior sex when it comes to strength, speed, power. Not saying that there are not women out there who are superior in those three categories to me.

Vinny

The End of Women's Sports

It would definitely be the end of female sports. But first before I go on any further...this description is certainly one big jumble in its descriptors:

"Selina Soule was one of the top five female high school sprinters in Connecticut... until competing against biological boys changed the game. Now, women aren’t just losing their races — they’re losing their chances to compete at all. Why is this happening? And what should we do about it?"

Selina is both a female and a woman but she is now competing against "boys".

I don't know what is the cutoff between when a girl becomes a woman or a boy becomes a man. My rough cutoff would be around 18 or high school graduation.

Therefore this is really about girls competing against boys (if it had been properly worded in that description).

In general, in any sports the women cannot compete against the men.

I've been on the same co-ed softball team since 1994. During all that time I've usually been the worst male player on the team. However, conversely during all that time, with few exceptions, my talents would be better than all the women on the team, almost all of them decades and decades younger than me.

Vinny

[Lonestar]

But I think before guns, women and physically weak men had pretty much no way to protect themselves from strong men wanting to do harm to them.

Reminds me of the old quote "God made men, Same Colt made them equal".

This reads quite transphobic. Since physical strength differences between men and women are purely a social construct of the patriarchy.

And that quote is clearly from the NRA, trying to brainwash women into buying guns, like the cigarette companies did to women tricking them into believing smoking was empowering to them.

As a gender fluid who currently identifies as a woman for the purpose of this response, I think women are just as strong if not stronger than men.

I am acquiring a strong appreciation of your viewpoints on ALL subject matter based on this post. In your wisdom, and fluid gender oscillations, you are able to evaluate the issue from two, maybe even three or four different views, depending on how you currently feel about yourself.

What if we consider and restrict certain calibers and magazine capacities based on the physical needs of individuals? Evaluate how weak or strong an individual is, but certainly leave gender out of the equation, and then assign the right to purchase an acceptable firearm.

I too have digressed and apologize.

[Mark Leavy]

I do want to go there. I just saw this building on a show. Looks amazing.

Singapore is a mixed bag.

A wonderful city. International. Capitalist. Iron fist. Hard to understand.

A lot of English, but spoken with a Mandarin chop. So it takes a while to digest that it is English that you are hearing.

Canings for vandalism and grafiti. Fines and imprisonments for crossing against the light or spitting gum.

Huge malls filled with beautiful stuff. But not a decent set of tools to be found.

Legal Pink districts filled with Thai girls that can't leave their rooms unless they procure enough tips.

There is a lot I like about Singapore. But much of it is also disconcerting.

The first time I arrived, I had a beard - and no one would talk to me. (Granted, it was pretty ugly) But after I shaved it off and started chopping my English, I got along okay.

Mark

[glennds]

I do want to go there. I just saw this building on a show. Looks amazing.

Singapore is a mixed bag.

A wonderful city. International. Capitalist. Iron fist. Hard to understand.

A lot of English, but spoken with a Mandarin chop. So it takes a while to digest that it is English that you are hearing.

Canings for vandalism and grafiti. Fines and imprisonments for crossing against the light or spitting gum.

Huge malls filled with beautiful stuff. But not a decent set of tools to be found.

Legal Pink districts filled with Thai girls that can't leave their rooms unless they procure enough tips.

There is a lot I like about Singapore. But much of it is also disconcerting.

The first time I arrived, I had a beard - and no one would talk to me. (Granted, it was pretty ugly) But after I shaved it off and started chopping my English, I got along okay.

Mark

You didn't mention the phenomenal street food scene (for anyone who is into street food). Maybe some of the best anywhere, partly because of the fusion of Malaysian, Chinese, Indian and other Southeast Asian styles.

I see the canings and fines as a double edged sword. On the one hand, yes, there are canings and fines. On the other hand, there is no vandalism or graffiti to be seen, and nobody spits gum or litters on the street.

Mark, if you're into tools, when I was living in Japan I was turned on to the legendary toolmaking centers of Niigata and Miki City in Hyogo prefecture, where the old blacksmiths forge tools using the ancient blacksmithing techniques that have their roots in the Samurai swords. In terms of tools, the woodworking chisels, plane irons and other types of cutting tools are almost mythical in their ability to take and hold an edge. IMO no tool made in the US can come close to the steel they forge there. The closest you might find is some of the vintage tooling that came out of Sweden in the 60s and 70's like EA Berg. If you're interested, I can hook you up because the Japanese tools are not normally available to gaijin, but I have a friend who knows most of the blacksmiths. Most of them are pretty old. When they die out, many think the forging traditions will die out with them.

[doodle]

But I think before guns, women and physically weak men had pretty much no way to protect themselves from strong men wanting to do harm to them.

The legend has it that this is reason the Buddhist monks in China developed the earliest martial arts. The Shaolin temple being the famous one.

Or strength in numbers. I watched a video...Robert Sapolsky I think on baboons. He studied a group where a couple thug alphas were being real dicks and bullying others. Well it got to a point where a group got sick of it and ganged up and implemented some baboon vigilante justice. After that things went back to being peaceful.

Anyways...that's a tangent.

[glennds]

But I think before guns, women and physically weak men had pretty much no way to protect themselves from strong men wanting to do harm to them.

The legend has it that this is reason the Buddhist monks in China developed the earliest martial arts. The Shaolin temple being the famous one.

Or strength in numbers. I watched a video...Robert Sapolsky I think on baboons. He studied a group where a couple thug alphas were being real dicks and bullying others. Well it got to a point where a group got sick of it and ganged up and implemented some baboon vigilante justice. After that things went back to being peaceful.

Anyways...that's a tangent.

Tyranny of the majority.....
Let me guess, in this allegory, the two thug alpha bullies were Republicans, and the group of vigilantes were leftist marxist Democrats imposing their form of socialism. But I like that it ended peacefully with no allegations of fraud.

[Mark Leavy]

I do want to go there. I just saw this building on a show. Looks amazing.

Singapore is a mixed bag.

A wonderful city. International. Capitalist. Iron fist. Hard to understand.

A lot of English, but spoken with a Mandarin chop. So it takes a while to digest that it is English that you are hearing.

Canings for vandalism and grafiti. Fines and imprisonments for crossing against the light or spitting gum.

Huge malls filled with beautiful stuff. But not a decent set of tools to be found.

Legal Pink districts filled with Thai girls that can't leave their rooms unless they procure enough tips.

There is a lot I like about Singapore. But much of it is also disconcerting.

The first time I arrived, I had a beard - and no one would talk to me. (Granted, it was pretty ugly) But after I shaved it off and started chopping my English, I got along okay.

Mark

You didn't mention the phenomenal street food scene (for anyone who is into street food). Maybe some of the best anywhere, partly because of the fusion of Malaysian, Chinese, Indian and other Southeast Asian styles.

I see the canings and fines as a double edged sword. On the one hand, yes, there are canings and fines. On the other hand, there is no vandalism or graffiti to be seen, and nobody spits gum or litters on the street.

Mark, if you're into tools, when I was living in Japan I was turned on to the legendary toolmaking centers of Niigata and Miki City in Hyogo prefecture, where the old blacksmiths forge tools using the ancient blacksmithing techniques that have their roots in the Samurai swords. In terms of tools, the woodworking chisels, plane irons and other types of cutting tools are almost mythical in their ability to take and hold an edge. IMO no tool made in the US can come close to the steel they forge there. The closest you might find is some of the vintage tooling that came out of Sweden in the 60s and 70's like EA Berg. If you're interested, I can hook you up because the Japanese tools are not normally available to gaijin, but I have a friend who knows most of the blacksmiths. Most of them are pretty old. When they die out, many think the forging traditions will die out with them.

I'm definitely pro-Singapore. Just trying to lay out the facts.
I love street food. I will eat jumping shrimp - or whatever.

I am 'pro' caning. Seems like the ideal solution to a whole lot of small problems. I could have benefited from a caning or two myself...

I have paid a shit load of money for some sushi knives in Kyoto. I don't even want to talk about it... but I am a sucker for good steel.

My best knives are days away from being pulled from Portland storage and moved to some safe deposit boxes.

The three biggest issues I have with permanent travel is the lack of a barbell gym, carbon steel knives and lever action rifles.

Mark

[Mark Leavy]

ark, if you're into tools, when I was living in Japan I was turned on to the legendary toolmaking centers of Niigata and Miki City in Hyogo prefecture, where the old blacksmiths forge tools using the ancient blacksmithing techniques that have their roots in the Samurai swords. In terms of tools, the woodworking chisels, plane irons and other types of cutting tools are almost mythical in their ability to take and hold an edge. IMO no tool made in the US can come close to the steel they forge there. The closest you might find is some of the vintage tooling that came out of Sweden in the 60s and 70's like EA Berg. If you're interested, I can hook you up because the Japanese tools are not normally available to gaijin, but I have a friend who knows most of the blacksmiths. Most of them are pretty old. When they die out, many think the forging traditions will die out with them.

At the risk of TMI... I would be very interested in this. If you're not comfortable posting publicly, please PM me.
Mark

[vnatale]

But I think before guns, women and physically weak men had pretty much no way to protect themselves from strong men wanting to do harm to them.

Reminds me of the old quote "God made men, Same Colt made them equal".

This reads quite transphobic. Since physical strength differences between men and women are purely a social construct of the patriarchy.

And that quote is clearly from the NRA, trying to brainwash women into buying guns, like the cigarette companies did to women tricking them into believing smoking was empowering to them.

As a gender fluid who currently identifies as a woman for the purpose of this response, I think women are just as strong if not stronger than men.

Clearly you are being satirical. But can you point to anyone who maintains anything close to your last paragraph? All one has to do is look at the Olympic records for the same events for men and women and anyone can clearly see that men ARE the superior sex when it comes to strength, speed, power. Not saying that there are not women out there who are superior in those three categories to me.

Vinny

The End of Women's Sports

It would definitely be the end of female sports. But first before I go on any further...this description is certainly one big jumble in its descriptors:

"Selina Soule was one of the top five female high school sprinters in Connecticut... until competing against biological boys changed the game. Now, women aren’t just losing their races — they’re losing their chances to compete at all. Why is this happening? And what should we do about it?"

Selina is both a female and a woman but she is now competing against "boys".

I don't know what is the cutoff between when a girl becomes a woman or a boy becomes a man. My rough cutoff would be around 18 or high school graduation.

Therefore this is really about girls competing against boys (if it had been properly worded in that description).

In general, in any sports the women cannot compete against the men.

I've been on the same co-ed softball team since 1994. During all that time I've usually been the worst male player on the team. However, conversely during all that time, with few exceptions, my talents would be better than all the women on the team, almost all of them decades and decades younger than me.

Vinny

So you're okay with ending women's sports then?

Absolutely NOT! It'd be like letting high school teams play middle school teams. Just as the middle school teams would be unable to compete the women would be unable to compete. We've yet to have a women play any major league sports. I don't think any woman has even made the lowest level minor league baseball team. The best WNBA players would get wiped out in the NBA.

Vinny

[vnatale]

I do want to go there. I just saw this building on a show. Looks amazing.

Singapore is a mixed bag.

A wonderful city. International. Capitalist. Iron fist. Hard to understand.

A lot of English, but spoken with a Mandarin chop. So it takes a while to digest that it is English that you are hearing.

Canings for vandalism and grafiti. Fines and imprisonments for crossing against the light or spitting gum.

Huge malls filled with beautiful stuff. But not a decent set of tools to be found.

Legal Pink districts filled with Thai girls that can't leave their rooms unless they procure enough tips.

There is a lot I like about Singapore. But much of it is also disconcerting.

The first time I arrived, I had a beard - and no one would talk to me. (Granted, it was pretty ugly) But after I shaved it off and started chopping my English, I got along okay.

Mark

You didn't mention the phenomenal street food scene (for anyone who is into street food). Maybe some of the best anywhere, partly because of the fusion of Malaysian, Chinese, Indian and other Southeast Asian styles.

I see the canings and fines as a double edged sword. On the one hand, yes, there are canings and fines. On the other hand, there is no vandalism or graffiti to be seen, and nobody spits gum or litters on the street.

Mark, if you're into tools, when I was living in Japan I was turned on to the legendary toolmaking centers of Niigata and Miki City in Hyogo prefecture, where the old blacksmiths forge tools using the ancient blacksmithing techniques that have their roots in the Samurai swords. In terms of tools, the woodworking chisels, plane irons and other types of cutting tools are almost mythical in their ability to take and hold an edge. IMO no tool made in the US can come close to the steel they forge there. The closest you might find is some of the vintage tooling that came out of Sweden in the 60s and 70's like EA Berg. If you're interested, I can hook you up because the Japanese tools are not normally available to gaijin, but I have a friend who knows most of the blacksmiths. Most of them are pretty old. When they die out, many think the forging traditions will die out with them.

In July 1981 I came out of my normal intense provincialism to go on a tour of the United States. To this day I remember being struck by how wide the streets were in Salt Lake City, how clean they were, and how safe I felt being on them, day or night. I assumed this was because of the prevalent Mormon presence (though I was shocked to find a rock club that both served alcohol and had an excellent band the night I was there). I assume several reading this have been to Salt Lake City since I was there almost 40 years ago. Does the clean street / safe feeling still prevail there?

Vinny

[Mark Leavy]

In July 1981 I came out of my normal intense provincialism to go on a tour of the United States. To this day I remember being struck by how wide the streets were in Salt Lake City, how clean they were, and how safe I felt being on them, day or night. I assumed this was because of the prevalent Mormon presence (though I was shocked to find a rock club that both served alcohol and had an excellent band the night I was there). I assume several reading this have been to Salt Lake City since I was there almost 40 years ago. Does the clean street / safe feeling still prevail there?

Vinny

Yes, compared to other large cities, SLC is very well kept up. Utah, in general is awesome that way. Especially the smaller towns. Utah isn't 100% Mormon, but they definitely define the culture. Honest, hard working, clean, frugal, community minded, forward looking... I don't have any desire to join up, but they run a tight ship.

In May of this year, I bought a used car in Los Angeles, and then stopped in at the dealer in Las Vegas and told them to find anything wrong with it they could - and to fix it. After I got it back, I started driving to South Dakota to register it and halfway to Salt Lake City the alternator went out on me. I limped along - stopping to charge the battery at every gas station along the way - and finally got to Salt Lake City. I met a lot of fine, friendly, helpful upstanding people along the way. You could do a lot worse than to hand the culture over to the Utahns. When I got to the dealer in SLC, they fixed my alternator and pointed out a lot of stuff that the Las Vegas crew had missed. I was a bit shocked, and he confided that most of the Las Vegas MINI owners drive up to Salt Lake to get any serious work done.