I Think This Forum Should Stick To Investing

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Re: I Think This Forum Should Stick To Investing

Post by SomeDude » Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:58 am

pmward wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:42 am
Harry Browne had separate radio shows for investing and politics for a reason.
And the permanent portfolio philosophy is independent of the political situation. But.....surely how this turns out will affect (at least in the short-term), investment prices.

Maybe it's best to keep politics out of the other sections? If you guys close this section, I predict it will spill up there.
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Re: I Think This Forum Should Stick To Investing

Post by mukramesh » Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:06 am

pmward wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 8:28 am
The political drama has poisoned this forum. We have lost tons of members because of it. It has put us all at each others throats and divided us into groups. I don't think the politics belongs here. I think that if politics stay, eventually it will be the death of this forum.
Absolutely.
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Re: I Think This Forum Should Stick To Investing

Post by Libertarian666 » Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:07 am

mukramesh wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:06 am
pmward wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 8:28 am
The political drama has poisoned this forum. We have lost tons of members because of it. It has put us all at each others throats and divided us into groups. I don't think the politics belongs here. I think that if politics stay, eventually it will be the death of this forum.
Absolutely.
No one is forcing anyone to read this sub-forum.
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Re: I Think This Forum Should Stick To Investing

Post by Libertarian666 » Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:08 am

SomeDude wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:58 am
pmward wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:42 am
Harry Browne had separate radio shows for investing and politics for a reason.
And the permanent portfolio philosophy is independent of the political situation. But.....surely how this turns out will affect (at least in the short-term), investment prices.

Maybe it's best to keep politics out of the other sections? If you guys close this section, I predict it will spill up there.
Right, or we could turn into another knuckleheads forum, which would be extremely boring.
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Re: I Think This Forum Should Stick To Investing

Post by vnatale » Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:08 am

Libertarian666 wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:07 am
mukramesh wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:06 am
pmward wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 8:28 am
The political drama has poisoned this forum. We have lost tons of members because of it. It has put us all at each others throats and divided us into groups. I don't think the politics belongs here. I think that if politics stay, eventually it will be the death of this forum.
Absolutely.
No one is forcing anyone to read this sub-forum.
Agree.

Vinny
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Re: I Think This Forum Should Stick To Investing

Post by pmward » Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:10 am

SomeDude wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:58 am
pmward wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:42 am
Harry Browne had separate radio shows for investing and politics for a reason.
And the permanent portfolio philosophy is independent of the political situation. But.....surely how this turns out will affect (at least in the short-term), investment prices.
Like I said, they don't have to moderate and disallow political topics when there is this overlap. But I don't think shoe horning a political forum into an investment forum is working. You're very new here. Many people have already stopped coming here because they wanted an alternate investment forum and this turned into a political forum. There are quite a few considering leaving right now because of it. I don't think trying to combine both politics and investments into one forum does either topic justice.
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Re: I Think This Forum Should Stick To Investing

Post by Hal » Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:17 am

Personally, I think this Politics section should stay. I barely follow US politics, and rarely look on this section. However I would imagine, perhaps naively, that if forum members are not interested they would not visit this area.

Those that are so inclined can have a section as long as there is courtesy.
Maybe I have said too much, so I will keep my mouth shut :-X
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Re: I Think This Forum Should Stick To Investing

Post by Cortopassi » Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:21 am

Libertarian666 wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:07 am
mukramesh wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:06 am
pmward wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 8:28 am
The political drama has poisoned this forum. We have lost tons of members because of it. It has put us all at each others throats and divided us into groups. I don't think the politics belongs here. I think that if politics stay, eventually it will be the death of this forum.
Absolutely.
No one is forcing anyone to read this sub-forum.
And...you can put people on ignore... :P
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Re: I Think This Forum Should Stick To Investing

Post by pmward » Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:25 am

Hal wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:17 am
Personally, I think this Politics section should stay. I barely follow US politics, and rarely look on this section. However I would imagine, perhaps naively, that if forum members are not interested they would not visit this area.

Those that are so inclined can have a section as long as there is courtesy.
Maybe I have said too much, so I will keep my mouth shut :-X
Unfortunately the separate sub section is not enough for "courtesy". Those of us that came here for an investment forum that have watched it devolve into an alt-right political forum are not exactly thrilled. We don't want to leave and find a new investment home. But we also are very turned off by the alt-right political slant that has been allowed to breed to the point that it is suffocating. This may be a fine "courteous" place for an alt-right investor to come... but this place is pretty hostile to anyone who is not alt-right. This place has even become hostile to moderates/centrists, or even people that lean "right" but do not like Trump. It's just not a healthy environment for an investment forum, and ultimately makes the PP look bad.
Last edited by pmward on Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I Think This Forum Should Stick To Investing

Post by vnatale » Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:26 am

Hal wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:17 am
Personally, I think this Politics section should stay. I barely follow US politics, and rarely look on this section. However I would imagine, perhaps naively, that if forum members are not interested they would not visit this area.

Those that are so inclined can have a section as long as there is courtesy.
Maybe I have said too much, so I will keep my mouth shut :-X
You said it all quite well.....

Vinny
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Re: I Think This Forum Should Stick To Investing

Post by mukramesh » Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:27 am

Cortopassi wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:21 am
Libertarian666 wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:07 am
mukramesh wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:06 am
pmward wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 8:28 am
The political drama has poisoned this forum. We have lost tons of members because of it. It has put us all at each others throats and divided us into groups. I don't think the politics belongs here. I think that if politics stay, eventually it will be the death of this forum.
Absolutely.
No one is forcing anyone to read this sub-forum.
And...you can put people on ignore... :P
I get that :)

But I still agree with pmward that the forum has been somewhat ruined in the past 5 years or so (like much of the internet, social media, etc.) by endless political bickering.

Harry Browne's "How to Find Freedom in an Unfree World" was about taking back personal responsibility in spite of all things trying to limit our freedoms (not just government.) The political discussions on this forum do not follow this spirit.
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Re: I Think This Forum Should Stick To Investing

Post by mukramesh » Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:32 am

Libertarian666 wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:30 am
mukramesh wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:27 am
Cortopassi wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:21 am
Libertarian666 wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:07 am
mukramesh wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:06 am
pmward wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 8:28 am
The political drama has poisoned this forum. We have lost tons of members because of it. It has put us all at each others throats and divided us into groups. I don't think the politics belongs here. I think that if politics stay, eventually it will be the death of this forum.
Absolutely.
No one is forcing anyone to read this sub-forum.
And...you can put people on ignore... :P
I get that :)

But I still agree with pmward that the forum has been somewhat ruined in the past 5 years or so (like much of the internet, social media, etc.) by endless political bickering.

Harry Browne's "How to Find Freedom in an Unfree World" was about taking back personal responsibility in spite of all things trying to limit our freedoms (not just government.) The political discussions on this forum do not follow this spirit.
1. I don't agree that the forum has been ruined.
2. What has caused the acrimony is that some of the members are attacking and insulting other members for supporting the President.
3. HB was talking about a relatively free society, not Cuba or Venezuela. If he were alive today, he would be all-in for Trump when considering the alternative of an election stolen by communists.
Wow dude... WOOOSH
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Re: I Think This Forum Should Stick To Investing

Post by pmward » Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:34 am

Libertarian666 wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:30 am
1. I don't agree that the forum has been ruined.
2. What has caused the acrimony is that some of the members are attacking and insulting other members for supporting the President.
3. HB was talking about a relatively free society, not Cuba or Venezuela. If he were alive today, he would be all-in for Trump when considering the alternative of an election stolen by communists.
This quote above from Tech is a perfect example of what I was saying in the quote linked below. This forum is hostile to anyone that is not alt-right.
pmward wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:25 am

Unfortunately the separate sub section is not enough for "courtesy". Those of us that came here for an investment forum that have watched it devolve into an alt-right political forum are not exactly thrilled. We don't want to leave and find a new investment home. But we also are very turned off by the alt-right political slant that has been allowed to breed to the point that it is suffocating. This may be a fine "courteous" place for an alt-right investor to come... but this place is pretty hostile to anyone who is not alt-right. This place has even become hostile to moderates/centrists, or even people that lean "right" but do not like Trump. It's just not a healthy environment for an investment forum, and ultimately makes the PP look bad.
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Re: I Think This Forum Should Stick To Investing

Post by Mountaineer » Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:35 am

l82start wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:32 am
politics has become all encompassing lately and its sad but we are in strange times... lock-downs, corona, trump being an ass, the specter of tyranny rising, economic and employment hardship, and an election gone wrong...

please be nice and try to avoid the adding to the toxic side of all this...
grown adults can have political and philosophical discussions with out acrimony..
Indeed be nice.
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Re: I Think This Forum Should Stick To Investing

Post by l82start » Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:41 am

i wont speak for Xan but i suspect we will keep things as they are..
he created a politics section to help deal with the influx of politics into everything. and it has cleaned up the other discussions area.

we are ALL getting burned out on the state of the world today and on the divisiveness it is causing.. but participation in discussions about it are voluntary..

we are all in this together so if you do participate... be good... be nice... be responsible for the quality of your posts (regardless of the side you take)
if something "somebody posted on the internet" is getting you riled up.. take a minute or a day... consider your reply and avoid feeding the drama..
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Re: I Think This Forum Should Stick To Investing

Post by pmward » Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:42 am

And if you don't split the politics off to a separate forum, and you want this to continue to be an investing forum only for the alt-right pro-Trumpers please at least have the courtesy to let us all know so we can quit wasting our time here and find somewhere else to go that isn't going to be hostile toward us.
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Re: I Think This Forum Should Stick To Investing

Post by mukramesh » Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:48 am

l82start wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:41 am

if something "somebody posted on the internet" is getting you riled up.. take a minute or a day... consider your reply and avoid feeding the drama..
Yes obviously we can just avoid the discussions related to politics. +1 for personal responsibility.

Frankly, I'll probably stick around no matter what since I've found the investing information invaluable and can tune out the politics.

But is it really worth alienating so many members and lowering the quality of the investment discussion just to satisfy the people who want to discuss politics all day? It's up to the moderators/admins of course.
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Re: I Think This Forum Should Stick To Investing

Post by SomeDude » Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:56 am

l82start wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:41 am
if something "somebody posted on the internet" is getting you riled up..
then they accomplished their goal
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Re: I Think This Forum Should Stick To Investing

Post by l82start » Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:58 am

pmward wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:42 am
And if you don't split the politics off to a separate forum, and you want this to continue to be an investing forum only for the alt-right pro-Trumpers please at least have the courtesy to let us all know so we can quit wasting our time here and find somewhere else to go that isn't going to be hostile toward us.
nobody is trying to stop you from posting alt left views and we are not on the whole (or even in the minority) alt right..

you and i have been debating in good faith.. nothing you have said has me riled up or feeling like a victim... i think we have created some interesting content..

am i wrong?
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Re: I Think This Forum Should Stick To Investing

Post by vnatale » Wed Dec 02, 2020 11:00 am

mukramesh wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:48 am
l82start wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:41 am

if something "somebody posted on the internet" is getting you riled up.. take a minute or a day... consider your reply and avoid feeding the drama..
Yes obviously we can just avoid the discussions related to politics. +1 for personal responsibility.

Frankly, I'll probably stick around no matter what since I've found the investing information invaluable and can tune out the politics.

But is it really worth alienating so many members and lowering the quality of the investment discussion just to satisfy the people who want to discuss politics all day? It's up to the moderators/admins of course.
This is not like we are all in a room where only one person at a time gets to speak and, therefore, can dominate the discussion.

Here many of us can be "speaking" at the same time and each "listener" has full choice to decide to whom to listen to and on which topics.

It's why I love this form of communication rather than in-person, live with a group of people.

Vinny
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Re: I Think This Forum Should Stick To Investing

Post by pmward » Wed Dec 02, 2020 11:04 am

l82start wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:58 am
pmward wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:42 am
And if you don't split the politics off to a separate forum, and you want this to continue to be an investing forum only for the alt-right pro-Trumpers please at least have the courtesy to let us all know so we can quit wasting our time here and find somewhere else to go that isn't going to be hostile toward us.
nobody is trying to stop you from posting alt left views and we are not on the whole (or even in the minority) alt right..

you and i have been debating in good faith.. nothing you have said has me riled up or feeling like a victim... i think we have created some interesting content..

am i wrong?
I agree that me and you have had some constructive conversations. We both have been willing to meet in the middle and discuss things for the most part. The same cannot be said of others on this forum though. Also, I'm not "alt-left" so you would never get me bringing that junk here, I'm a centrist. Which is really the point I'm trying to make, even centrists find this place is hostile these days. Now we've reached a point where the forum has been basically split in two. It's not even split on R vs D, or "left" vs "right". It's split solely by Pro-Trump vs Anti-Trump. It just doesn't seem like a good environment. I miss the days when we could actually debate things here without being told by Tech that anyone that doesn't support Trump is a communist (as he alluded to in this very thread earlier this morning). That language is hostile. It is basically a declaration of war against anyone who doesn't pledge full allegiance to Trump.
Last edited by pmward on Wed Dec 02, 2020 11:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I Think This Forum Should Stick To Investing

Post by mukramesh » Wed Dec 02, 2020 11:14 am

Maybe the answer is to warn/temporarily-ban/permanently-ban the abrasive people.
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Re: I Think This Forum Should Stick To Investing

Post by l82start » Wed Dec 02, 2020 11:15 am

pmward wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 11:04 am
l82start wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:58 am
pmward wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:42 am
And if you don't split the politics off to a separate forum, and you want this to continue to be an investing forum only for the alt-right pro-Trumpers please at least have the courtesy to let us all know so we can quit wasting our time here and find somewhere else to go that isn't going to be hostile toward us.
nobody is trying to stop you from posting alt left views and we are not on the whole (or even in the minority) alt right..

you and i have been debating in good faith.. nothing you have said has me riled up or feeling like a victim... i think we have created some interesting content..

am i wrong?
I agree that me and you have had some constructive conversations. We both have been willing to meet in the middle and discuss things for the most part. The same cannot be said of others on this forum though. Also, I'm not "alt-left" so you would never get me bringing that junk here, I'm a centrist. Which is really the point I'm trying to make, even centrists find this place is hostile these days. Now we've reached a point where the forum has been basically split in two. It just doesn't seem like a good environment. I miss the days when we could actually debate things here without being told by Tech that anyone that doesn't support Trump is a communist (as he alluded to in this very thread earlier this morning). That language is hostile. It is basically a declaration of war against anyone who doesn't pledge full allegiance to Trump.
tech is mostly posting articles. and yes some of his comments are the same throwaway non arguments that the trash media right makes.. but then doodle and others are making the the same quantity of throwaway non arguments that the trash left media makes...
why is one side of this exchange (voluntary exchange ) a victim of the other? does the street not go both ways?
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Re: I Think This Forum Should Stick To Investing

Post by SomeDude » Wed Dec 02, 2020 11:16 am

pmward wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 11:04 am
I miss the days when we could actually debate things here without being told by Tech that anyone that doesn't support Trump is a communist (as he alluded to in this very thread earlier this morning).
Half the time I hear Trump talk he sounds like a communist! ;D

Since it's only half the time.....lesser of two evils for me.
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Re: I Think This Forum Should Stick To Investing

Post by vnatale » Wed Dec 02, 2020 11:19 am

mukramesh wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 11:14 am
Maybe the answer is to warn/temporarily-ban/permanently-ban the abrasive people.
Or, to chose to not engage with those you believe fall into that category. Fires don't keep going without burning material, correct?

I'm not at all advocating putting anyone on "Ignore". Just pick and choose who and what you respond to.

Vinny
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