Libertarians of Reddit

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doodle
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Libertarians of Reddit

Post by doodle » Sat Dec 12, 2020 8:57 am

Wow, what a difference in the Gyro libertarians and Reddit Libertarians...I'm starting to wonder about these so called "libertarians" here.


https://www.reddit.com/r/Libertarian/
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doodle
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Re: Libertarians of Reddit

Post by doodle » Sat Dec 12, 2020 9:11 am

Ahhh...topic dealing with just this phenomenon

"What’s the deal with clearly auth right people calling themselves libertarians?"

https://www.reddit.com/r/Libertarian/c ... rce=share
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Re: Libertarians of Reddit

Post by pmward » Sat Dec 12, 2020 9:26 am

Republicans voters that are too embarrassed to admit they support the GOP call themselves libertarians.
To be clear here, American libertarianism has always been primarily populated by right-wing authoritarians that do not want to identify as conservatives.
The libertarian to alt-right pipeline exists for a reason.
It's a product of the Jim Crow Era and the Civil Rights Movement.
Segregationists loved using the idea of "Liberty" to put a fig leaf on a state-mandated caste system. How often have I seen "Freedom of Association" used to justify everything from whites-only bathrooms to
It isn't that libertarians are on a pipeline to alt-rightness. It's that there's a social stigma against being alt-right. So segregationists stick with the libertarian label until they find enough like-minded people to take the mask off.
Those are just a few very highly upvoted comments in that link. Yeah, this is a much different "Libertarianism" than I've come to know from the people here. I wish we had more "Libertarian" views like that here.
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Re: Libertarians of Reddit

Post by doodle » Sat Dec 12, 2020 9:32 am

So segregationists stick with the libertarian label until they find enough like-minded people to take the mask off.
I'd say the mask has come off here a few times.
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Re: Libertarians of Reddit

Post by pmward » Sat Dec 12, 2020 9:41 am

The more I read through this thread the more I keep thinking that I could actually sit down, have a beer, and have a constructive and enjoyable political discussion with these people. They seem so much more reasonable, open minded, and free of all the alt-right tinfoil hat conspiracy theory non-sense.
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Re: Libertarians of Reddit

Post by doodle » Sat Dec 12, 2020 9:53 am

Yes, discovering that has refreshed my hope that reasonable voices on the "political right" still exist. Based on discussions here I was beginning to wonder whether the differences of opinion were even bridgeable....now I'm thinking maybe this gyro forum has just attracted a special type of character.
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Re: Libertarians of Reddit

Post by pmward » Sat Dec 12, 2020 9:54 am

I have Facebook friends who ranted about facism all throughout the Obama administration and advocate "small government", and soon as Trump gets elected they buy giant Trump flags and basically swear allegiance to the police and military and won't question anything the dear leader says or does.
Argued with a guy here who was in favor of the kidnapping and forced sterilization of migrants going on at the border that also claimed that he was more Libertarian than everybody disagreeing with him.
I'm not one to purity test Libertarianism but I draw the line there.
Out of the 15 or so people on my Facebook who regularly post political stuff that all call themselves L, only one has ever said anything against Trump. And he’s pretty anti-Trump. The rest are straight up licking the boot. It would be funny if not sad.
A few more gems.
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Re: Libertarians of Reddit

Post by pmward » Sat Dec 12, 2020 9:59 am

doodle wrote:
Sat Dec 12, 2020 9:53 am
Yes, discovering that has refreshed my hope that reasonable voices on the "political right" still exist. Based on discussions here I was beginning to wonder whether the differences of opinion were even bridgeable....now I'm thinking maybe this gyro forum has just attracted a special type of character.
Yeah, I'm not gonna lie, the libertarian vibe I get there on Reddit is much more attractive than the libertarian vibe I get here. This forum is really the only exposure I've had to libertarian people, so it may (hopefully) have painted an incorrect picture in my mind.
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Re: Libertarians of Reddit

Post by I Shrugged » Sat Dec 12, 2020 10:31 am

You mean I don’t fit into someone else’s box? Oh how troubling.
I must endeavor to conform.

If anyone wants to know, I’m extremely similar to Ron Paul. There is a definite libertine streak in many libertarians, especially those more left leaning. I don’t have that. My apologies.
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Re: Libertarians of Reddit

Post by doodle » Sat Dec 12, 2020 10:43 am

tomfoolery wrote:
Sat Dec 12, 2020 10:03 am
This thread’s posts so far strike me as a man telling his girlfriend how much better looking, funny, and smart his new female coworker at work is compared to her.

Oh and the new girl is single.
Lol. Yep.
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Re: Libertarians of Reddit

Post by glennds » Sat Dec 12, 2020 10:45 am

I Shrugged wrote:
Sat Dec 12, 2020 10:31 am


If anyone wants to know, I’m extremely similar to Ron Paul.
Do you mean 1988-1996 Ron Paul, or the 1996-2012 Ron Paul, or the 2016- Paulite movement?
All three bear striking differences to one another, enough so that Ron Paul himself has disavowed the first and part of the second phases. But if you asked him, he'd say he's been crusading for liberty since 1971. It's just that the details of what that means have changed and seem to continue to change.

In my experience, if you took three people and asked them if they know what Liberty means, they will all nod their heads emphatically. Take the three into separate rooms and ask for a definition, and you'll get three different definitions. Same goes with Libertarianism. Many self-claimed Libertarians do not (even generally) agree with any single set of positions let alone with each other. This is one of the reasons why it has never become a cohesive party of any significance. The monopoly held by the two dominant parties is another.

The flavor among a handful on this discussion forum is just that, a flavor.
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Re: Libertarians of Reddit

Post by InsuranceGuy » Sun Dec 13, 2020 6:33 pm

[deleted]
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Re: Libertarians of Reddit

Post by pmward » Sun Dec 13, 2020 6:44 pm

InsuranceGuy wrote:
Sun Dec 13, 2020 6:33 pm
I fail to understand the point of this post. Is it to demean people or just label people in a way that makes it easier to think they are stupid or their opinion is somehow less valid? I guess I don't see it given that most people here are respectful and thoughtful in their responses even when they disagree with you doodle and pmward.
I simply found it interesting. My only real experience with Libertarians has been on this website. I guess I didn't realize how varied Libertarianism could be. I guess I wrongly assumed that all Libertarians were hard core alt-right Trumpians. I found it shocking to see so many highly upvoted posts on a Libertarian forum basically be both anti both Trump and alt-right. Many of those people were saying things that sounded like arguments I would make here. I guess it was just such a jarring difference in opinion from what I hear here, that it was shocking. Like how can these polar opposite views be from the same party?

Also, not everyone here has been respectful and thoughtful in their responses. A few select people have. You always have. But this forum isn't exactly known to be friendly and warm towards any view that is not either Libertarian or Republican in nature. Posting anything that is either moderate or left at times feels like walking into a den of rabid starving wolves.
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Re: Libertarians of Reddit

Post by InsuranceGuy » Sun Dec 13, 2020 7:04 pm

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Re: Libertarians of Reddit

Post by doodle » Sun Dec 13, 2020 7:09 pm

InsuranceGuy wrote:
Sun Dec 13, 2020 7:04 pm
pmward wrote:
Sun Dec 13, 2020 6:44 pm
InsuranceGuy wrote:
Sun Dec 13, 2020 6:33 pm
I fail to understand the point of this post. Is it to demean people or just label people in a way that makes it easier to think they are stupid or their opinion is somehow less valid? I guess I don't see it given that most people here are respectful and thoughtful in their responses even when they disagree with you doodle and pmward.
I simply found it interesting. My only real experience with Libertarians has been on this website. I guess I didn't realize how varied Libertarianism could be. I guess I wrongly assumed that all Libertarians were hard core alt-right Trumpians. I found it shocking to see so many highly upvoted posts on a Libertarian forum basically be both anti both Trump and alt-right. Many of those people were saying things that sounded like arguments I would make here. I guess it was just such a jarring difference in opinion from what I hear here, that it was shocking. Like how can these polar opposite views be from the same party?
If that is where you are coming from, I think it is natural for there to be such a wide spectrum. Most libertarians start out as republicans because democrats are a party of big government. Naturally I think many start out wanting less government for things they don't like but wanting the govenment to madate things they do like which I guess could be perceived as auth right.

I didn't realize that there were libertarians here that are hard core alt-right Trumpians. Most of the libertarians I know, including myself, did not particularly like Trump and are classically liberal.
The variety of libertarians here pretty much unanimously love Trump...some to the point of complete obsession. Some "libertarians" here support him calling for martial law because of the election...
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Re: Libertarians of Reddit

Post by Maddy » Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:27 am

And yet you just keep coming back. Why is that?
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Re: Libertarians of Reddit

Post by pmward » Mon Dec 14, 2020 9:58 am

Maddy wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:27 am
And yet you just keep coming back. Why is that?
That depends if you believe there is something wrong with not agreeing. I don't agree with a fair amount of the dogma on this board. It doesn't mean there isn't benefit in reading and considering the well thought out arguments that the other side has. I hope these same people find the same benefit in those of us that disagree posting our well thought out arguments as well. There are obviously some here that are not friendly and would prefer a right wing echo chamber; they in turn have lost my respect. But there are others here that are more open to discussion and have earned my respect even if I don't agree with their opinion.
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Re: Libertarians of Reddit

Post by glennds » Mon Dec 14, 2020 10:22 am

I don't know if this has been discussed here already, but there is a nifty tool on https://www.politicalcompass.org/ which will allow you to take a test and see where you place on a graph where the boundaries are Auth/Fascism vs. Anarch/Libertarianism on one axis, and Communism/Collectivism Left vs. Neo-Liberalism/Libertarianism Right on the other.

Since this discussion has turned toward categorization of political views, I thought it might be interesting.

I placed on the Libertarian side slightly Left. All things considered, I was pretty close to the center mark.

If you take a few moments to complete the test, please share your feedback and results. Personally I think it would be fascinating to see where some of us place on a uniform test like this as compared to what we might infer from thread comments. The outcome may be totally predictable, and then again, it might not.
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Re: Libertarians of Reddit

Post by pmward » Mon Dec 14, 2020 10:57 am

glennds wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 10:22 am
I don't know if this has been discussed here already, but there is a nifty tool on https://www.politicalcompass.org/ which will allow you to take a test and see where you place on a graph where the boundaries are Auth/Fascism vs. Anarch/Libertarianism on one axis, and Communism/Collectivism Left vs. Neo-Liberalism/Libertarianism Right on the other.

Since this discussion has turned toward categorization of political views, I thought it might be interesting.

I placed on the Libertarian side slightly Left. All things considered, I was pretty close to the center mark.

If you take a few moments to complete the test, please share your feedback and results. Personally I think it would be fascinating to see where some of us place on a uniform test like this as compared to what we might infer from thread comments. The outcome may be totally predictable, and then again, it might not.
Yeah I'm the same, almost dead center, with an ever so slight skew to "libertarian left".
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Re: Libertarians of Reddit

Post by I Shrugged » Mon Dec 14, 2020 11:21 am

Doodle, your view is so clouded by your own bile that it's not worth trying to set you straight.
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Re: Libertarians of Reddit

Post by glennds » Mon Dec 14, 2020 11:58 am

tomfoolery wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 11:00 am
pmward wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 10:57 am
glennds wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 10:22 am
I don't know if this has been discussed here already, but there is a nifty tool on https://www.politicalcompass.org/ which will allow you to take a test and see where you place on a graph where the boundaries are Auth/Fascism vs. Anarch/Libertarianism on one axis, and Communism/Collectivism Left vs. Neo-Liberalism/Libertarianism Right on the other.

Since this discussion has turned toward categorization of political views, I thought it might be interesting.

I placed on the Libertarian side slightly Left. All things considered, I was pretty close to the center mark.

If you take a few moments to complete the test, please share your feedback and results. Personally I think it would be fascinating to see where some of us place on a uniform test like this as compared to what we might infer from thread comments. The outcome may be totally predictable, and then again, it might not.
Yeah I'm the same, almost dead center, with an ever so slight skew to "libertarian left".
These generalizations are used as a weapon by both sides, to put themselves in a higher position than the other.
I was only thinking that it might be helpful to work off something uniform. That's why I found the tool interesting. We might actually find out many of us are closer in ideology than we think.

I don't see generalizations as weapon by either side. The bigger issue is that many of these words have different meanings to different people, and the result is confusion more than true dispute.
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Re: Libertarians of Reddit

Post by SomeDude » Mon Dec 14, 2020 12:22 pm

I Shrugged wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 11:21 am
Doodle, your view is so clouded by your own bile that it's not worth trying to set you straight.
He has Carl Marx as his pic. You have Atlas Shrugged.

There is nothing really to discuss between you guys, unless you are a masochist IS.

Are you? :o
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Re: Libertarians of Reddit

Post by SomeDude » Mon Dec 14, 2020 12:23 pm

glennds wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 10:22 am
I don't know if this has been discussed here already, but there is a nifty tool on https://www.politicalcompass.org/ which will allow you to take a test and see where you place on a graph where the boundaries are Auth/Fascism vs. Anarch/Libertarianism on one axis, and Communism/Collectivism Left vs. Neo-Liberalism/Libertarianism Right on the other.

Since this discussion has turned toward categorization of political views, I thought it might be interesting.

I placed on the Libertarian side slightly Left. All things considered, I was pretty close to the center mark.

If you take a few moments to complete the test, please share your feedback and results. Personally I think it would be fascinating to see where some of us place on a uniform test like this as compared to what we might infer from thread comments. The outcome may be totally predictable, and then again, it might not.
Maybe post the link in a new Thread and have it be a poll for members to mark what they are?
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Re: Libertarians of Reddit

Post by doodle » Mon Dec 14, 2020 12:26 pm

I Shrugged wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 11:21 am
Doodle, your view is so clouded by your own bile that it's not worth trying to set you straight.
[Edit]

Nevermind, i'm not getting dragged into this.
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Re: Libertarians of Reddit

Post by vnatale » Mon Dec 14, 2020 1:09 pm

glennds wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 10:22 am
I don't know if this has been discussed here already, but there is a nifty tool on https://www.politicalcompass.org/ which will allow you to take a test and see where you place on a graph where the boundaries are Auth/Fascism vs. Anarch/Libertarianism on one axis, and Communism/Collectivism Left vs. Neo-Liberalism/Libertarianism Right on the other.

Since this discussion has turned toward categorization of political views, I thought it might be interesting.

I placed on the Libertarian side slightly Left. All things considered, I was pretty close to the center mark.

If you take a few moments to complete the test, please share your feedback and results. Personally I think it would be fascinating to see where some of us place on a uniform test like this as compared to what we might infer from thread comments. The outcome may be totally predictable, and then again, it might not.
Just took it. Here is how I came out...

Vinny
Capture.JPG
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Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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