Defamation Lawsuits Likely Against Trump and Promoters of Election Conspiracy Theories

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Ad Orientem
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Defamation Lawsuits Likely Against Trump and Promoters of Election Conspiracy Theories

Post by Ad Orientem » Mon Dec 21, 2020 12:32 pm

It looks like some people have had enough of the lies. Two prominent manufacturers of voting machines are gearing up for lawsuits where it is expected they will request serious punitive damages from the Trump campaign and right wing news outlets that have been spreading the phony claims of voter fraud and manipulation using their machines. Legal experts think they have a strong case for libel/slander and given the egregious and malicious nature of the offenses, punitive damages could be extremely steep. FOX News, OANN and other rightwing news sites that have been promoting false conspiracy theories regarding the election have already received legal notices from lawyers demanding immediate cease and desist and a public and forceful retraction of their libelous claims. Perhaps more dangerous than the damages is the prospect of forcing these people, including possibly Trump himself, and his lawyers, to testify under oath in court.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/20/busi ... e=Homepage
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Re: Defamation Lawsuits Likely Against Trump and Promoters of Election Conspiracy Theories

Post by SomeDude » Mon Dec 21, 2020 12:36 pm

Ad Orientem wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 12:32 pm
It looks like some people have had enough of the lies. Two prominent manufacturers of voting machines are gearing up for lawsuits where it is expected they will request serious punitive damages from the Trump campaign and right wing news outlets that have been spreading the phony claims of voter fraud and manipulation using their machines. Legal experts think they have a strong case for libel/slander and given the egregious and malicious nature of the offenses, punitive damages could be extremely steep. FOX News, OANN and other rightwing news sites that have been promoting false conspiracy theories regarding the election have already received legal notices from lawyers demanding immediate cease and desist and a public and forceful retraction of their libelous claims. Perhaps more dangerous than the damages is the prospect of forcing these people, including possibly Trump himself, and his lawyers, to testify under oath in court.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/20/busi ... e=Homepage
I predict courts will actually hear this case. The question is, will they hear the evidence of the defendants?

This is great news because getting the evidence in court is what the Trump team has been trying to do all along. Judges have been trying everything possible to block them.

If only the courts would have heard the evidence in the first place this could have all been settled.

Great development thanks AdO, let's hope the plaintiffs get their day in court!
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Re: Defamation Lawsuits Likely Against Trump and Promoters of Election Conspiracy Theories

Post by doodle » Mon Dec 21, 2020 12:56 pm

SomeDude wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 12:36 pm
Ad Orientem wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 12:32 pm
It looks like some people have had enough of the lies. Two prominent manufacturers of voting machines are gearing up for lawsuits where it is expected they will request serious punitive damages from the Trump campaign and right wing news outlets that have been spreading the phony claims of voter fraud and manipulation using their machines. Legal experts think they have a strong case for libel/slander and given the egregious and malicious nature of the offenses, punitive damages could be extremely steep. FOX News, OANN and other rightwing news sites that have been promoting false conspiracy theories regarding the election have already received legal notices from lawyers demanding immediate cease and desist and a public and forceful retraction of their libelous claims. Perhaps more dangerous than the damages is the prospect of forcing these people, including possibly Trump himself, and his lawyers, to testify under oath in court.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/20/busi ... e=Homepage
I predict courts will actually hear this case. The question is, will they hear the evidence of the defendants?

This is great news because getting the evidence in court is what the Trump team has been trying to do all along. Judges have been trying everything possible to block them.

Yes, even the judges Trump nominated including the supreme court are in on the fraud! I'm really trying to bite my tongue, but it isn't easy.
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Re: Defamation Lawsuits Likely Against Trump and Promoters of Election Conspiracy Theories

Post by SomeDude » Mon Dec 21, 2020 1:00 pm

doodle wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 12:56 pm
SomeDude wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 12:36 pm
Ad Orientem wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 12:32 pm
It looks like some people have had enough of the lies. Two prominent manufacturers of voting machines are gearing up for lawsuits where it is expected they will request serious punitive damages from the Trump campaign and right wing news outlets that have been spreading the phony claims of voter fraud and manipulation using their machines. Legal experts think they have a strong case for libel/slander and given the egregious and malicious nature of the offenses, punitive damages could be extremely steep. FOX News, OANN and other rightwing news sites that have been promoting false conspiracy theories regarding the election have already received legal notices from lawyers demanding immediate cease and desist and a public and forceful retraction of their libelous claims. Perhaps more dangerous than the damages is the prospect of forcing these people, including possibly Trump himself, and his lawyers, to testify under oath in court.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/20/busi ... e=Homepage
I predict courts will actually hear this case. The question is, will they hear the evidence of the defendants?

This is great news because getting the evidence in court is what the Trump team has been trying to do all along. Judges have been trying everything possible to block them.

Yes, even the judges Trump nominated including the supreme court are in on the fraud! I'm really trying to bite my tongue, but it isn't easy.
There was no fraud Doodle. Which makes it all weirder the courts won't hear the cases to prove that and to prove there's no evidence. Why do they want to make it look like they are in on it when they could simply allow the case to be presented at least once?

They could make the Trump team look foolish.

Instead they choose to make themselves look completely partisan. Why do you think that is?
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Re: Defamation Lawsuits Likely Against Trump and Promoters of Election Conspiracy Theories

Post by Ad Orientem » Mon Dec 21, 2020 1:14 pm

SomeDude wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 12:36 pm
Ad Orientem wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 12:32 pm
It looks like some people have had enough of the lies. Two prominent manufacturers of voting machines are gearing up for lawsuits where it is expected they will request serious punitive damages from the Trump campaign and right wing news outlets that have been spreading the phony claims of voter fraud and manipulation using their machines. Legal experts think they have a strong case for libel/slander and given the egregious and malicious nature of the offenses, punitive damages could be extremely steep. FOX News, OANN and other rightwing news sites that have been promoting false conspiracy theories regarding the election have already received legal notices from lawyers demanding immediate cease and desist and a public and forceful retraction of their libelous claims. Perhaps more dangerous than the damages is the prospect of forcing these people, including possibly Trump himself, and his lawyers, to testify under oath in court.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/20/busi ... e=Homepage
I predict courts will actually hear this case. The question is, will they hear the evidence of the defendants?

This is great news because getting the evidence in court is what the Trump team has been trying to do all along. Judges have been trying everything possible to block them.

If only the courts would have heard the evidence in the first place this could have all been settled.

Great development thanks AdO, let's hope the plaintiffs get their day in court!

Indeed. As any first year law student can point out; truth is an absolute defense against claims of defamation. The legal bar for these cases is actually quite high. There are a number of conditions which generally must be met under US law.

* The defendant made statements which were categorically false.
^ The defendant knew they were false at the time they were made.
* The defendant acted with a reckless disregard for the truth and/or malicious intent.
* The plaintiff suffered injury as a result of the false claims.

The only circumstance under which Trump and the other potential defendants would have anything to worry about, is if they have actually been lying.
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Re: Defamation Lawsuits Likely Against Trump and Promoters of Election Conspiracy Theories

Post by doodle » Mon Dec 21, 2020 1:15 pm

SomeDude wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 1:00 pm
doodle wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 12:56 pm
SomeDude wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 12:36 pm
Ad Orientem wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 12:32 pm
It looks like some people have had enough of the lies. Two prominent manufacturers of voting machines are gearing up for lawsuits where it is expected they will request serious punitive damages from the Trump campaign and right wing news outlets that have been spreading the phony claims of voter fraud and manipulation using their machines. Legal experts think they have a strong case for libel/slander and given the egregious and malicious nature of the offenses, punitive damages could be extremely steep. FOX News, OANN and other rightwing news sites that have been promoting false conspiracy theories regarding the election have already received legal notices from lawyers demanding immediate cease and desist and a public and forceful retraction of their libelous claims. Perhaps more dangerous than the damages is the prospect of forcing these people, including possibly Trump himself, and his lawyers, to testify under oath in court.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/20/busi ... e=Homepage
I predict courts will actually hear this case. The question is, will they hear the evidence of the defendants?

This is great news because getting the evidence in court is what the Trump team has been trying to do all along. Judges have been trying everything possible to block them.

Yes, even the judges Trump nominated including the supreme court are in on the fraud! I'm really trying to bite my tongue, but it isn't easy.
There was no fraud Doodle. Which makes it all weirder the courts won't hear the cases to prove that and to prove there's no evidence. Why do they want to make it look like they are in on it when they could simply allow the case to be presented at least once?

They could make the Trump team look foolish.

Instead they choose to make themselves look completely partisan. Why do you think that is?
What are they going to listen to? Jarbled incoherent ramblings? Why do you think courts are refusing to take these cases? Because there is nothing to substantiate them. They can't even get a single court to accept a case because there is nothing to go off.
Ginsberg chuckled at one hapless Michigan lawyer who filed an election challenge Thursday evening in a federal claims court in Washington, D.C., the wrong venue, and bizarrely titled it, “Donald Trump v. USA,” as if the president was suing the nation.

“Why would anyone ever use that title?” Ginsberg wondered, speculating that Trump’s lawyers are trying to “appease their client” by filing the suits that have little prayer of succeeding because, “they don’t have instances of fraud or irregularities that are relevant.”

Another lawsuit in Michigan, filed by the conservative Great Lakes Justice Center on behalf of two Republican poll watchers, was rejected Friday by a state judge who found that the plaintiffs’ allegations of fraud were really an exercise in speculation fueled by unfamiliarity with the vote-counting process.

In an earlier Pennsylvania case where Trump’s team tried to stop ballot-counting, the president’s lawyers were forced to admit that a “nonzero number of” Republican observers were allowed to witness ballot counting, contrary to false claims made outside the courtroom that no Republican observers were present. The judge reminded Trump’s lawyers they have a “duty of candor” in court.

Another recently filed Pennsylvania case argues that it will provide data-based “analytical evidence of illegal voting” at a future date. A newly filed Wisconsin case references “fraud” 31 times, but only to point out fraud in other places and races and provides no evidence of it happening in the state for this election.

In Montana, federal Judge Dana Christensen had harsher words for yet another team of Trump lawyers who were trying to stop mail-in voting in October when he called the claims widespread voter fraud “fiction.” And two days after the election in Michigan, federal Judge Cynthia Stephens rejected yet another lawsuit.

“Come on, now!” she admonished the lawyers at one point during a hearing. In her opinion, she referred to the campaign’s argument as “inadmissible hearsay within hearsay.”"
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Re: Defamation Lawsuits Likely Against Trump and Promoters of Election Conspiracy Theories

Post by SomeDude » Mon Dec 21, 2020 1:18 pm

Ad Orientem wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 1:14 pm
SomeDude wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 12:36 pm
Ad Orientem wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 12:32 pm
It looks like some people have had enough of the lies. Two prominent manufacturers of voting machines are gearing up for lawsuits where it is expected they will request serious punitive damages from the Trump campaign and right wing news outlets that have been spreading the phony claims of voter fraud and manipulation using their machines. Legal experts think they have a strong case for libel/slander and given the egregious and malicious nature of the offenses, punitive damages could be extremely steep. FOX News, OANN and other rightwing news sites that have been promoting false conspiracy theories regarding the election have already received legal notices from lawyers demanding immediate cease and desist and a public and forceful retraction of their libelous claims. Perhaps more dangerous than the damages is the prospect of forcing these people, including possibly Trump himself, and his lawyers, to testify under oath in court.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/20/busi ... e=Homepage
I predict courts will actually hear this case. The question is, will they hear the evidence of the defendants?

This is great news because getting the evidence in court is what the Trump team has been trying to do all along. Judges have been trying everything possible to block them.

If only the courts would have heard the evidence in the first place this could have all been settled.

Great development thanks AdO, let's hope the plaintiffs get their day in court!

Indeed. As any first year law student can point out; truth is an absolute defense against claims of defamation. The legal bar for these cases is actually quite high. There are a number of conditions which generally must be met under US law.

* The defendant made statements which were categorically false.
^ The defendant knew they were false at the time they were made.
* The defendant acted with a reckless disregard for the truth and/or malicious intent.
* The plaintiff suffered injury as a result of the false claims.

The only circumstance under which Trump and the other potential defendants would have anything to worry about, is if they have actually been lying.
Which means all parties should welcome a complete open and public review of what both sides contend as very serious evidence or allegations of election fraud.

This should have already taken place for the good of everyone.

Even though we disagree on what is the likely truth of the situation, I think we can agree that getting to the bottom of it is best. That is certainly what the pro-Trump people have been saying.
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Re: Defamation Lawsuits Likely Against Trump and Promoters of Election Conspiracy Theories

Post by doodle » Mon Dec 21, 2020 3:02 pm

I don't think there is ever any getting to the bottom with you. You won't accept any outcome other than the one you have already made up in your mind.
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Re: Defamation Lawsuits Likely Against Trump and Promoters of Election Conspiracy Theories

Post by SomeDude » Mon Dec 21, 2020 3:22 pm

doodle wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 3:02 pm
I don't think there is ever any getting to the bottom with you. You won't accept any outcome other than the one you have already made up in your mind.
You belong at the back of a movie theater doodlebug, the upper back wall.
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Re: Defamation Lawsuits Likely Against Trump and Promoters of Election Conspiracy Theories

Post by Maddy » Mon Dec 21, 2020 4:28 pm

Damn. Those conspiracy theories just keep coming true.
https://gizmodo.com/your-credit-score-s ... 1845912592
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Re: Defamation Lawsuits Likely Against Trump and Promoters of Election Conspiracy Theories

Post by Ad Orientem » Mon Dec 21, 2020 8:26 pm

Looks like FOX and Newsmax are suddenly trying to walk back some of the crazy stuff they have promoted...

Fox, Newsmax shoot down their own aired claims on election

https://apnews.com/article/election-202 ... 28da78c61c
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Re: Defamation Lawsuits Likely Against Trump and Promoters of Election Conspiracy Theories

Post by Dieter » Mon Dec 21, 2020 8:43 pm

Maddy wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 4:28 pm
Damn. Those conspiracy theories just keep coming true.
https://gizmodo.com/your-credit-score-s ... 1845912592
Which conspiracy theory associated with this one?

(is there an emoticon for "While I track to the left for this forum, serious question"?)
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