Vinny’s Vietnam war protest arrest

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I Shrugged
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Vinny’s Vietnam war protest arrest

Post by I Shrugged » Sat Jan 16, 2021 11:08 am

Since this is political I’m creating a new topic.

Vinny, first I applaud both your anti war mindset at the time, and your guts for doing it.

The mainstream belief at the time was that protesters were communists, sympathizers, or at the very least, useful idiots for the communists. Certainly some of the leaders were communist leaning.

Do you feel you were any of those things?
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Re: Vinny’s Vietnam war protest arrest

Post by vnatale » Sat Jan 16, 2021 11:32 am

I Shrugged wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 11:08 am

Since this is political I’m creating a new topic.

Vinny, first I applaud both your anti war mindset at the time, and your guts for doing it.

The mainstream belief at the time was that protesters were communists, sympathizers, or at the very least, useful idiots for the communists. Certainly some of the leaders were communist leaning.

Do you feel you were any of those things?


I do not at all remember that being the mainstream belief.

I know I was not any of those. Never thought any of the leaders were communist leaning.

To clarify....In October 1969 I did participate in an Vietnam protest. The same day that these protests were happening all over the country.

My arrest took place the week after Kent State. In general, it was a protest against the Vietnam Way. Specifically it was an attempt to close down the draft board as it had successfully been the prior week.

I've stated this several times here. Don't know if you prior caught any of them previously. But as a 9 year old I independently decided on my own, through my own reading and under the influence of no one else - parents, friends, teachers - that I was a Republican. Consequently, for the 1960 election I was one of only two students in my 4th grade class of 30 who were NOT for Kennedy. As a Republican, of course I'd be for Nixon. There was never a second thought about it.

I decided to protest the draft and risk arrest because I'd been saying for nearly a year that I was against the draft.

You can say all you want what you believe in. But until there is a potential cost to acting on those beliefs then it is all words.

I realized it was time for me to match my words with actions.

Again, I did this independently.

I did not discuss it with anyone but myself. I did not walk to the draft board or from the court house (after we'd all been charged with "trespassing" with anyone else but myself.

I was one of only 7 of 2,000 at my conservative college of future mathematicians / engineers / scientists to make this choice.

Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Vinny’s Vietnam war protest arrest

Post by I Shrugged » Sat Jan 16, 2021 12:16 pm

If you don’t know or won’t acknowledge that there were communists in the movement leadership, and that it was mainstream government thought that protesters were what I wrote, then there’s no reason to continue. Well played.
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Re: Vinny’s Vietnam war protest arrest

Post by vnatale » Sat Jan 16, 2021 12:29 pm

I Shrugged wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 12:16 pm

If you don’t know or won’t acknowledge that there were communists in the movement leadership, and that it was mainstream government thought that protesters were what I wrote, then there’s no reason to continue. Well played.


I was not playing anything.

I don't play games.

I am quite literal and open.

There may well haven been communists in the movement leadership the same way there were government infiltrators in the movement leadership. Therefore, they may have well cancelled one another out. Ever thought of that? I never did until now.

However, it did not take any involvement of the communists on any level in the movement or what the mainstream government thought to negate the fact that this was it was an unnecessary war. A war that was continued because to stop it would be too damaging to the egos of those involved in government who were in charged of prosecuting it.

Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Vinny’s Vietnam war protest arrest

Post by I Shrugged » Sat Jan 16, 2021 1:47 pm

The point is, Vinny, that you employ the same kind of thought process. There are white supremacists who support Trump. There are QAnon conspiracy theorists that support Trump. Therefore anyone who supports Trump or his policies is on board with white supremacy and crazy conspiracies.

I'll take it further and say that some of the communist leaners in the VN protests had some good thoughts and points. Today, I'm sure some of the people being labeled conspiracy theorists still make points worthy of consideration. For sure, now that the label is simply thrown at anyone who doesn't toe the line, because it's been found to be the most effective pejorative of the moment. But when a point worth talking about is given to you, your first and only reaction is to see if you can discredit the person who made the point. You can't get past the source, and have made it plain that that's how you think.

You're an authoritarian with a dangerous mindset, hobbled by being so literal. We're trying to discuss the higher altitude view in many cases, and all you want to do is ask, "who said it and what does Wikipedia say about them?" And you've taken over the place because you can't help it. Can you just stick to the investing topics if they still interest you? I've had you on ignore for a few days, but your crap still gets quoted, because you probably make half of the total post count.

I am in agreement with whoever wrote that politically, this was essentially a libertarian minded forum, but it had people of all stripes. Libertarianism at its core is about live and let live. I think everyone is interested in different opinions when presented in the spirit of discussion and critical thinking. But, it's very annoying to have doodle trolling all the time, and you just being the closed minded authoritarian who can't stop talking. You're both just crapping the place up. One intentionally and one not.
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Re: Vinny’s Vietnam war protest arrest

Post by stuper1 » Sat Jan 16, 2021 2:08 pm

I Shrugged,

Very well said. I support Trump, and I'm not a white supremacist or a conspiracy theorist. I don't like Trump's obnoxious, belligerent style, but I support him because I think his policies are much better than whatever policies we're about to get from Biden. I just hold my nose and ignore his tweets, etc. In my view, whichever side will result in smaller government is preferable. I just want government to stay out of people's way. Every social program ever cooked up by the government ends up causing more harm than good.
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Re: Vinny’s Vietnam war protest arrest

Post by pp4me » Sat Jan 16, 2021 2:16 pm

Sounds like I was arrested for protesting around the same time as Vinny. I was just home from Vietnam and protesting on the Ohio State University campus. The riots broke out after the invasion of Cambodia of which I had a part in delivering ammunition and supplies on the Mekong river.

My next duty station was in Norfolk, Virginia where I was supposed to drive the amphibious landing boats used to train Marines. I showed up but couldn't bring myself to do it. Instead, I joined the other 503,925 military men who deserted during the war.
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Re: Vinny’s Vietnam war protest arrest

Post by vnatale » Sat Jan 16, 2021 2:31 pm

pp4me wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 2:16 pm

Sounds like I was arrested for protesting around the same time as Vinny. I was just home from Vietnam and protesting on the Ohio State University campus. The riots broke out after the invasion of Cambodia of which I had a part in delivering ammunition and supplies on the Mekong river.

My next duty station was in Norfolk, Virginia where I was supposed to drive the amphibious landing boats used to train Marines. I showed up but couldn't bring myself to do it. Instead, I joined the other 503,925 military men who deserted during the war.


Definitely around the same time as me.

Kent State did occur after the invasion of Cambodia.

You were far more courageous in your actions than I was.

Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Vinny’s Vietnam war protest arrest

Post by vnatale » Sat Jan 16, 2021 3:28 pm

stuper1 wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 2:08 pm

I Shrugged,

Very well said. I support Trump, and I'm not a white supremacist or a conspiracy theorist. I don't like Trump's obnoxious, belligerent style, but I support him because I think his policies are much better than whatever policies we're about to get from Biden. I just hold my nose and ignore his tweets, etc. In my view, whichever side will result in smaller government is preferable. I just want government to stay out of people's way. Every social program ever cooked up by the government ends up causing more harm than good.


For the record....when I heard Biden speaking a few nights ago...I realized I was already weary of him and he's not yet become president.

Then when I listened to his words I heard so much of what I do not support.

As much as I detested Trump....he had least being wildly entertaining going for him.

Biden is your prototypical politician with no entertainment value who wants to just spend rather than engage in more effective solutions.

I've been on to him for 30 years and there was no way he was going to get my vote.

Presently I am in the same position as I was with Trump just before Trump was inaugurated....waiting with interest to see what he actually does attempt to do.

Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Vinny’s Vietnam war protest arrest

Post by pp4me » Sat Jan 16, 2021 4:06 pm

Joe Biden was once a comical figure to people on both the right and the left. I think it may have been MT on this forum who coined the term "going full Biden" as a play on "going full retard" in the Vietnam movie "Tropic Thunder" (had to bring Vietnam in to stay on topic).

Now that he's president, the joke is on us. What do you do when it's a time for reconciliation after the summer of BLM riots and racial tensions inflamed to the boiling point? You appoint a black woman who wrote a paper on the genetic supremacy of black people to head the civil rights division while calling for unity and reconciliation.
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Re: Vinny’s Vietnam war protest arrest

Post by glennds » Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:10 pm

vnatale wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 3:28 pm


As much as I detested Trump....he had least being wildly entertaining going for him.

Biden is your prototypical politician with no entertainment value who wants to just spend rather than engage in more effective solutions.

I don't want an entertainer President ever again.

I look to my lawyer for legal advice. I look to my physician for medical treatment. I don't look to either one for comedy.
People who want their President to be an entertainer are going to end up electing a clown.
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Re: Vinny’s Vietnam war protest arrest

Post by Mountaineer » Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:46 pm

glennds wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:10 pm
vnatale wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 3:28 pm


As much as I detested Trump....he had least being wildly entertaining going for him.

Biden is your prototypical politician with no entertainment value who wants to just spend rather than engage in more effective solutions.

I don't want an entertainer President ever again.

I look to my lawyer for legal advice. I look to my physician for medical treatment. I don't look to either one for comedy.
People who want their President to be an entertainer are going to end up electing a clown.
They did, just a different type.

https://youtu.be/2NeHELhdwq4

.
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
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Re: Vinny’s Vietnam war protest arrest

Post by Hal » Sun Jan 17, 2021 5:09 am

To add to the discussion, have a read of this.
https://www.usni.org/magazines/naval-hi ... out-tonkin

When an army mate who was training draftees commented the war was based on B.S. I thought he had lost his marbles. He was correct and I have since learned not to be so naive.....
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Re: Vinny’s Vietnam war protest arrest

Post by vnatale » Sun Jan 17, 2021 11:22 am

Hal wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 5:09 am

To add to the discussion, have a read of this.
https://www.usni.org/magazines/naval-hi ... out-tonkin

When an army mate who was training draftees commented the war was based on B.S. I thought he had lost his marbles. He was correct and I have since learned not to be so naive.....


Yes. Many of us in the United States have known about this for a long, long time.

Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Vinny’s Vietnam war protest arrest

Post by Mountaineer » Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:52 pm

vnatale wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 11:22 am
Hal wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 5:09 am
To add to the discussion, have a read of this.
https://www.usni.org/magazines/naval-hi ... out-tonkin

When an army mate who was training draftees commented the war was based on B.S. I thought he had lost his marbles. He was correct and I have since learned not to be so naive.....
Yes. Many of us in the United States have known about this for a long, long time.
Wasn’t Woodrow Wilson the first person to say that; at least that’s what Al Gore told me, or maybe it was one of the Cuomos at a party in the Hamptons we attended. ???
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
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Re: Vinny’s Vietnam war protest arrest

Post by Xan » Sun Jan 17, 2021 2:47 pm

Hal wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 5:09 am
To add to the discussion, have a read of this.
https://www.usni.org/magazines/naval-hi ... out-tonkin

When an army mate who was training draftees commented the war was based on B.S. I thought he had lost his marbles. He was correct and I have since learned not to be so naive.....
To be fair, that particular event and the response to it may have been "based on BS", but fundamentally, the war was based on attempting to prevent the spread of Communism, which was not BS.
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Re: Vinny’s Vietnam war protest arrest

Post by pp4me » Sun Jan 17, 2021 3:28 pm

Xan wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 2:47 pm
Hal wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 5:09 am
To add to the discussion, have a read of this.
https://www.usni.org/magazines/naval-hi ... out-tonkin

When an army mate who was training draftees commented the war was based on B.S. I thought he had lost his marbles. He was correct and I have since learned not to be so naive.....
To be fair, that particular event and the response to it may have been "based on BS", but fundamentally, the war was based on attempting to prevent the spread of Communism, which was not BS.
They called it the "Domino Theory", meaning Asian countries would fall like dominoes if we didn't stop them. I was taught this in my senior year of high school in government class in 1967, using materials provided by some U.S. government agency. It was all capped off with an in-person visit by an Army recruiter addressing the whole student body. He got a standing ovation by everyone but me.

My B.S. detector turned out to be even better than I thought it was. I didn't learn this until much later but in 1964 the CIA had already debunked the domino theory ... https://historycollection.com/today-his ... -cia-1964/

If anyone is interested, the Ken Burns PBS documentary on Vietnam is very good. He was accused of being both pro-war and anti-war but I thought it was a fairly well balanced presentation. You can find it on Netflix and I think you can even watch all of it on Youtube.

Other books I would recommend on the subject....

Four Hours in My Lai (not for the faint of heart)
Kill Anything that Moves (ditto - My Lai was far from the only civilian massacre)
Patriots, the Vietnam War remembered from all sides

I have on my bucket list, flying in to Saigon (Ho Chi Minh City) and then taking a river cruise on the Mekong all the way up to Cambodia and beyond to Angkor Wat. This would be retracing all my steps except for the Angkor Wat part. Was going to do it two years ago but the plan got derailed by a wedding in the Philippines.
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Re: Vinny’s Vietnam war protest arrest

Post by vnatale » Sun Jan 17, 2021 3:42 pm

pp4me wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 3:28 pm

Xan wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 2:47 pm

Hal wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 5:09 am

To add to the discussion, have a read of this.
https://www.usni.org/magazines/naval-hi ... out-tonkin

When an army mate who was training draftees commented the war was based on B.S. I thought he had lost his marbles. He was correct and I have since learned not to be so naive.....


To be fair, that particular event and the response to it may have been "based on BS", but fundamentally, the war was based on attempting to prevent the spread of Communism, which was not BS.


They called it the "Domino Theory", meaning Asian countries would fall like dominoes if we didn't stop them. I was taught this in my senior year of high school in government class in 1967, using materials provided by some U.S. government agency. It was all capped off with an in-person visit by an Army recruiter addressing the whole student body. He got a standing ovation by everyone but me.

My B.S. detector turned out to be even better than I thought it was. I didn't learn this until much later but in 1964 the CIA had already debunked the domino theory ... https://historycollection.com/today-his ... -cia-1964/

If anyone is interested, the Ken Burns PBS documentary on Vietnam is very good. He was accused of being both pro-war and anti-war but I thought it was a fairly well balanced presentation. You can find it on Netflix and I think you can even watch all of it on Youtube.

Other books I would recommend on the subject....

Four Hours in My Lai (not for the faint of heart)
Kill Anything that Moves (ditto - My Lai was far from the only civilian massacre)
Patriots, the Vietnam War remembered from all sides

I have on my bucket list, flying in to Saigon (Ho Chi Minh City) and then taking a river cruise on the Mekong all the way up to Cambodia and beyond to Angkor Wat. This would be retracing all my steps except for the Angkor Wat part. Was going to do it two years ago but the plan got derailed by a wedding in the Philippines.


ALL goes along with what I remember. And, three more books purchased by me that were unknown by me until I find out about them in a post like this. Thanks.

Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Vinny’s Vietnam war protest arrest

Post by glennds » Sun Jan 17, 2021 5:00 pm

Xan wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 2:47 pm

To be fair, that particular event and the response to it may have been "based on BS", but fundamentally, the war was based on attempting to prevent the spread of Communism, which was not BS.
Unless you believe what Harry Browne wrote in his last book The War Racket, which was basically that your last statement (as it was fed to us by our government) is absolutely BS.
Harry had some pretty strong opinions about the deception and "real" reasons behind most of the wars in US history.
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Re: Vinny’s Vietnam war protest arrest

Post by vnatale » Sun Jan 17, 2021 5:24 pm

glennds wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 5:00 pm

Xan wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 2:47 pm


To be fair, that particular event and the response to it may have been "based on BS", but fundamentally, the war was based on attempting to prevent the spread of Communism, which was not BS.


Unless you believe what Harry Browne wrote in his last book The War Racket, which was basically that your last statement (as it was fed to us by our government) is absolutely BS.
Harry had some pretty strong opinions about the deception and "real" reasons behind most of the wars in US history.


I was 19 years old when I took an American Foreign Policies (history) course. Taught at a conservative college. All I got out of that course was that from the start and always the United States Foreign Policy is these eight words: "Whatever is Good for the U.S. dollar."

The politicians can attempt to obfuscate that as much as they want but that is what it has been, is, and always will be.

Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Vinny’s Vietnam war protest arrest

Post by glennds » Sun Jan 17, 2021 9:54 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 8:19 pm
Xan wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 2:47 pm

To be fair, that particular event and the response to it may have been "based on BS", but fundamentally, the war was based on attempting to prevent the spread of Communism, which was not BS.
Who is going to jump in and save us a few years from now?
Save us from Americans?
Maybe we can ask the Vietnamese for a hand.
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