California will show them!

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Maddy
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California will show them!

Post by Maddy » Wed Jun 30, 2021 6:57 am

California, dying as it is on the vine, sticks another nail in the coffin by announcing that it will no longer do business with a growing number of other states which fail to comply with "gender identity" laws. That's because, I presume, California's economic strength gives it the ability to cut off a significant segment of its economy.
Arkansas, Florida, Montana, North Dakota, and West Virginia are now on a list of states California will not do business with because of laws it says discriminate against people because of their sexual identity.
* * *
The San Francisco Chronicle reported on the addition on top of the 12 states already on the list for failing to comply with a 2016 state law that forbids doing business with states that allegedly discriminate against people based on “sexual orientation” and “gender identity.”

The states already on the list are Alabama, Idaho, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Mississippi, North Carolina, Oklahoma, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, and Texas.
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2021 ... -business/
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I Shrugged
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Re: California will show them!

Post by I Shrugged » Wed Jun 30, 2021 7:49 am

I really need to start a website like the nuclear war doomsday clock, for the breakup of the US. I’ll start by saying we are closer to midnight than we’ve been since the 1800s.
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Kriegsspiel
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Re: California will show them!

Post by Kriegsspiel » Wed Jun 30, 2021 11:37 am

Granted, I've never heard of this 2016 law, but isn't regulation of commerce between the states under the authority of Congress?
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Re: California will show them!

Post by Xan » Wed Jun 30, 2021 11:48 am

Kriegsspiel wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 11:37 am
Granted, I've never heard of this 2016 law, but isn't regulation of commerce between the states under the authority of Congress?
The "California" that is being banned from doing business with these states is the state government of California, not entities that happen to reside or be based in California.
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Tortoise
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Re: California will show them!

Post by Tortoise » Wed Jun 30, 2021 4:05 pm

Do you guys think this process of political polarization is self-limiting (i.e., certain forces will eventually cause it to reverse), or will it likely continue to get more pronounced until some form of red vs. blue state conflict or break-up occurs?
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Re: California will show them!

Post by vnatale » Wed Jun 30, 2021 4:52 pm

Tortoise wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 4:05 pm

Do you guys think this process of political polarization is self-limiting (i.e., certain forces will eventually cause it to reverse), or will it likely continue to get more pronounced until some form of red vs. blue state conflict or break-up occurs?


My initial response would be to ask how it could be possible since each state has its own polarizations within it.

But then I think back to the Civil War when the majority of the people of The South did not want to secede, did not want to go to war. But that did not matter. What mattered was how the state legislatures voted, who were controlled by the slave owners.

So I cannot so easily discount your scenario.
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Re: California will show them!

Post by jalanlong » Wed Jun 30, 2021 4:52 pm

Tortoise wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 4:05 pm
Do you guys think this process of political polarization is self-limiting (i.e., certain forces will eventually cause it to reverse), or will it likely continue to get more pronounced until some form of red vs. blue state conflict or break-up occurs?
Wouldn’t the breakup some individual states come first? There have to be a sizable number of people in CA who would disagree with that restriction. Just like there will be a number of people in Texas who disagree with the law CA is protesting.

I am witnessing it first hand here in Texas as the cities and suburbs are turning increasingly liberal, much to the chagrin of the conservatives, most of whom are lifetime Texans who are getting very angry at these carpetbaggers!

The county where I live hasn’t gone Democrat in a presidential election since LBJ. But this time Trump barely eeked out 50% of the vote. And my street is filled with “Love Trumps Hate” and “I Choose to Wear a Mask” lawn signs. The times they are a-changin’.
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Re: California will show them!

Post by Tortoise » Wed Jun 30, 2021 7:21 pm

Yes, there is also significant political polarization within the states, not just between them. In addition to the Illinois example that Pug shared, I've also heard of certain red counties in eastern Oregon proposing a vote to secede and join Idaho. But those seem like long shots.
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Re: California will show them!

Post by D1984 » Wed Jun 30, 2021 9:26 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 6:39 pm
For those that aren't from IL, thare have been several attempts to kick Chicago and its county out of the state, as IL would be bright red if not for Cook County
Even assuming the rest of Illinois could legally do that, wouldn't it require:

1. Approval from a majority of Illinois voters (and/or their representatives/senators in the IL statehouse) including the ones from Chicago and its environs,

2. Approval from a majority of people/state reps/state senators of the new red state of "New Illionois" (i.e. everything not in the Cook/Lake/Dupage/Will/Chicago city area)

3. An Organic Act and/or an Enabling Act from the US government for New Illinois to be admitted as a territory and then immediately to become a state?

From your view as a native Illinoisan, wouldn't it make more sense (assuming you were going to split Illinois in the first place) to try and keep all/most of the blue areas and red areas together (not together with each other since that's exactly what they are right now....I mean together with other blue and red areas of the state respectively)? The new state of, let's call it..."Chicagoland" (or just let it stay as "Illinois" ) would be composed of Cook/Lake/Dupage/Will/Dekalb/Kendall counties, plus for keeping all the blueish + blueish-purple places together you could link it with Winnebago County via a 20 or 22 foot wide strip along the Wisconsin border through McHenry and Boone; do a similar tiny thin strip--just wide enough for a road--through Stevenson, Joe Daviess, Carroll, and Whiteside counties along the Wisconsin and then Iowa border/state line to then include Rock Island County (which I am assuming is solidly blue due to being a suburb/bedroom county for Des Moines); then a tiny strip along Interstate 74 to Knox County (presuming Galesburg would want to be a part of the blue areas and the rest of the county would want to be part of the new red state); another strip around 74 continuing to Peoria and its inner-ring suburbs + Bloomington and its inner-ring suburbs and then yet another narrow strip of 74 along to Champaign. Vermillion, Iroquois, and Edgar would become a part of New Illinois and thus would connect the more rural blood-red counties between the Chicago metro area and the Peoria-Bloomington-Champaign axis to the rest of the newly formed red state of New Illinois.

I haven't yet figured out what to do with St. Clair and Jackson counties but I guess St. Clair could just secede and join the new state of Greater St. Louis if/when said state left Missouri since we're strictly going on hypotheticals by this point anyhow.....and from what's been going on the last four or five elections Jackson is trending a bit redder each time anyway so perhaps it wouldn't feel so out of place in New Illinois.

Since I don't live in Illinois what am I missing? Roughly what would the population of each new state of Illinois be and what would the per-capita GDP of each be?


PS - I think Idaho will take at least 12-13 years to go blue even assuming a bunch of west coast transplants....but all bets are off if younger voters in Idaho start voting anything like younger voters in other red states....they swing a lot more left in most states than even the 30-45 age bracket.
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Re: California will show them!

Post by sophie » Thu Jul 01, 2021 8:20 am

MangoMan wrote:
Thu Jul 01, 2021 7:40 am
I didn't want to get into that degree of specificity, but yes to all of that.

As far as Idaho and the other transplant states:
What will happen when they all inevitably go blue in 2 decades? Will there then be a newer even further left color that will start (duh) in CA and then start infesting NY, NJ, IL, etc, and then eventually everywhere? Since red is already taken, let's use the shade of yellow which is the color of the hammer and sickle on the CCP flag.
That's assuming a general shift to the left among the entire US population. Maybe that will happen, but I already see signs that the the pendulum is swinging back. When the shift to the left involves saddling people with higher taxes, crime, inflation, and degenerating living conditions generally, people will get tired of that eventually. This has all happened before! There was a leftward shift in the late 60s with the civil rights movement, Miranda rights and other forms of criminal-coddling, anti-war sentiment etc, which got us the 1970s. Then right wing issues started looking a lot more appealing, and we got a powerful rightward shift that resulted in, for example, the Reagan landslide and a Republican NYC Mayor. The exact same story is now playing out. I'm just hoping it plays out faster so we don't have to endure the 1970s-like conditions for that long.

Also remember that a lot of people who voted for Biden were RINOs who detested Trump. That was a one-trick pony. Between that and the Democrats pissing off a large proportion of the population, I'm figuring to see a rightward shift in the midterm elections that could keep gathering momentum leading up to 2024. That's why the Democrats are desperately trying to keep the Trump story alive, e.g. by pushing that criminal case in NYC.
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Re: California will show them!

Post by pp4me » Thu Jul 01, 2021 10:16 am

I'm seeing the conservative backlash that brought about the Reagan landslide too. The same thing happened before with Nixon.

The difference now is that the left has entrenched positions in practically every institution in America. So I don't hold out much hope that electing conservative politicians, even in landslides, is going to make much of a difference.
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Re: California will show them!

Post by Tortoise » Thu Jul 01, 2021 1:59 pm

sophie wrote:
Thu Jul 01, 2021 8:20 am
MangoMan wrote:
Thu Jul 01, 2021 7:40 am
As far as Idaho and the other transplant states:
What will happen when they all inevitably go blue in 2 decades? Will there then be a newer even further left color that will start (duh) in CA and then start infesting NY, NJ, IL, etc, and then eventually everywhere? Since red is already taken, let's use the shade of yellow which is the color of the hammer and sickle on the CCP flag.
That's assuming a general shift to the left among the entire US population. [...]
Actually, it's possible that over time, more states will hit the "blue threshold" (meaning the state legislature is Dem-controlled and the governor is Dem) even if the overall proportion of liberals and conservatives in the US doesn't change much.

For example, a 2020 Gallup poll showed that the American population is 50% "Democrat or Democrat leaners" and 39% "Republican or Republican leaners". So overall in the US, there are noticeably more left-leaners than right-leaners.

If one assumes that very blue states eventually adopt policies that ultimately make living in those states increasingly unpleasant, then I think Pug is right that over time there will be a net flow of left-leaning people into right-leaning states. The very blue states' populations would then shrink but remain blue, and the red states' populations would grow and shift purple/blue.
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sophie
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Re: California will show them!

Post by sophie » Thu Jul 01, 2021 3:13 pm

I guess we'll see how this plays out. I might have been convinced about a general shift to the left, but the degree to which polls have been consistently biased to the left, plus the NYC primary results are telling a different story. It looks like Eric Adams, who despite being vilified in the mainstream press is going to win handily because a lot of NYC residents woke up and decided that they really don't want to relive the 1970s, thank you very much. And I'm pretty sure that if a lot of NYC Democrats are thinking along those lines, a lot more of them elsewhere will too.
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Re: California will show them!

Post by Tortoise » Thu Jul 01, 2021 3:27 pm

What are Eric Adams’ views on homelessness?

Crime is a huge factor, but another factor that has been making some big cities almost unlivable in recent years has been the rapid spread of homeless encampments, open drug use, and urination/defecation on the public streets.

I guess those things fall under the category of crime since they’re all technically illegal but rarely enforced. But I’m guessing a lot of “tough on crime” political candidates mean violent crime and not “nuisance” crimes committed by homeless people.
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Re: California will show them!

Post by sophie » Thu Jul 01, 2021 5:41 pm

He does in fact include "nuisance crimes" on his priority list. He was one of the original architects of the "broken windows" philosophy, and he intends to bring that back.

His platform on homelessness is not too well developed. Something about repurposing empty office buildings and hotels in the now partially abandoned business districts (since no one works in offices anymore) as homeless shelters. Realize though that we don't have homeless encampments here like West Coast cities do. One good spell of sub-20 degree temperatures and that problem is fixed.

What is really needed to combat homelessness is the return of psychiatric hospitals and the ability to keep patients there involuntarily. I'd say that virtually all chronically homeless people are disorganized schizophrenics. I could definitely get behind using empty office buildings for that purpose.
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