Re: The Afghan Papers
Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2021 6:20 pm
I think you're confusing me with kbg, I'm not a Pentagon guy.
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I think you're confusing me with kbg, I'm not a Pentagon guy.
pp4me wrote: ↑Mon Aug 16, 2021 2:58 pm
Yes, you remember correctly but I don't know what the difference is between volunteering and enlisting (or did you mean to say "drafted" instead of volunteering).
I "volunteered" in the same sense that others like GWB volunteered for the National Guard. I joined the Navy because I expected to be drafted after I dropped out of college and lost my deferment. Only years later did I find out my number would have never come up. Most of us who joined the Navy or Air Force did so to avoid being drafted and ending up in the Army where the odds of ending up as a grunt fighting in the jungle were much higher.
Does this sound shady as fuck to anyone else? What is "self-identifying" as American? What Americans have their families in Afghanistan? And they don't intend to depart??? Are they just calling Afghans and their families "Americans" at this point?A State Department spokesman said Saturday that approximately 250 Americans are still seeking evacuation.
“Our team on the ground continues to coordinate assistance around the clock for this group, while taking the current security situation into account,” the spokesman said.
“Additionally, we have been in regular contact with a group of roughly 280 individuals who have self-identified as Americans in Afghanistan but who remain undecided about whether to leave the country or who have told us they do not intend to depart,” the spokesman added. link
You think it's simpler and more accurate that there are 280 stupid Americans, who brought their families with them to Afghanistan, and they haven't decided if they want to stay or leave? That could be the case, but I think the simpler explanation is that (at least a majority of them) they are families of Afghans who someone has conferred US citizenship on at some point and they haven't "come home" because they are home, in Afghanistan.
Yea definitely. IMO they shouldn't have gone there in the first place. Just an awful predicament in an awful place.On a human level, what a tough decision; try to make it to Kabul or hunker down and hope everything works out.
True. So they don't need "rescued" then.Also, some could be naturalized American citizens originally born in Afghanistan who decided to return and want to stay.
Yea, that's something I've been mulling over the past couple days. If these civilians are scattered around, trying to get TO Kabul, then they've been living in de facto Taliban-controlled areas for years now. The Talibans been watching them this whole time and haven't snatched them up yet? It sounds like they are under orders not to, probably to your point. Needless to say, rogue elements might disregard those orders if they felt like they could get away with keeping a war prize or two.Kbg wrote: ↑Sun Aug 29, 2021 2:45 pm Definitely a possibility. Hopefully everything works out well for them. I kinda see at the top of the TB it being in their interest to let everyone out who wants to go with press stories from returning Americans saying how helpful they were. Everything to gain, nothing to lose. Flip side, local 40 YO TB who thinks and acts like someone from centuries ago.
Pug, these women are not beholden to their husbands. They kept their maiden names and made sure that their kids had those names too. As glenn has told us, only the Taliban hold to such antiquated patriarchal ideas as yours.MangoMan wrote: ↑Sun Aug 29, 2021 4:36 pmI don't doubt this statistic, but don't see how it relates to your explanation in the prior sentence. Almost all of the US soldiers in Viet Nam were men, so even if they married there and brought their wives and kids back, unless they took their wives' names it wouldn't explain how all those Nguyens got here as a result.pp4me wrote: ↑Sun Aug 29, 2021 2:19 pm In Vietnam a lot of American citizens refused to leave unless they could take their Vietnamese families with them. Eventually they were allowed to bring them (Nguyen is now the 38th most common surname in the U.S.A.,BTW). Might be something similar going on.
Also, some could be naturalized American citizens originally born in Afghanistan who decided to return and want to stay.
A PP investor would appreciate this story.MangoMan wrote: ↑Sun Aug 29, 2021 4:36 pmI don't doubt this statistic, but don't see how it relates to your explanation in the prior sentence. Almost all of the US soldiers in Viet Nam were men, so even if they married there and brought their wives and kids back, unless they took their wives' names it wouldn't explain how all those Nguyens got here as a result.pp4me wrote: ↑Sun Aug 29, 2021 2:19 pm In Vietnam a lot of American citizens refused to leave unless they could take their Vietnamese families with them. Eventually they were allowed to bring them (Nguyen is now the 38th most common surname in the U.S.A.,BTW). Might be something similar going on.
Also, some could be naturalized American citizens originally born in Afghanistan who decided to return and want to stay.
I didn't intend to make any such assertion so I'm sorry you took it that way. It was actually a parenthetical addition to my original post that I thought people might find interesting.MangoMan wrote: ↑Mon Aug 30, 2021 11:15 amWell that makes more sense. My confusion came from the assertion in PP4me's post that the name resulted from US soldiers bringing families home.glennds wrote: ↑Mon Aug 30, 2021 9:50 amA PP investor would appreciate this story.MangoMan wrote: ↑Sun Aug 29, 2021 4:36 pmI don't doubt this statistic, but don't see how it relates to your explanation in the prior sentence. Almost all of the US soldiers in Viet Nam were men, so even if they married there and brought their wives and kids back, unless they took their wives' names it wouldn't explain how all those Nguyens got here as a result.pp4me wrote: ↑Sun Aug 29, 2021 2:19 pm In Vietnam a lot of American citizens refused to leave unless they could take their Vietnamese families with them. Eventually they were allowed to bring them (Nguyen is now the 38th most common surname in the U.S.A.,BTW). Might be something similar going on.
Also, some could be naturalized American citizens originally born in Afghanistan who decided to return and want to stay.
The larger influx of people resettling in the US from Vietnam happened 3 years after the war ended, mostly 1978-1979. The term "boat people" was used for the exodus.
The Vietnamese government was not letting people leave for free, and their currency had collapsed, so they came up with an "exit fee" which most people paid in gold coins or bars. If you had access to gold, you could buy your way out. The boat people were mostly resettled from refugee camps in other Asian countries to the US, Canada, France, UK and a few other places (400,000 to the US alone).
A friend of mine married a Vietnamese girl (named Nguyen) in the 1980's whose family had gotten out because Dad had buried a coffee can of silver in the backyard which was enough to buy their exit papers.
Some boats carried people who did not pay and thus had no exit papers, and many of those boats were attacked by "pirates" so paying was the safer thing to do.
*not satire or parody*
Should have retired/resigned first in my opinion....Kbg wrote: ↑Sat Aug 28, 2021 4:09 pm Completely over the line for a serving military officer.
It will be interesting to see if he does get court martialed and booted out. I hope he didn’t do it on the spur of the moment and talked to his wife about the potential consequences in advance. If he does get kicked out his pension is gone.
Simonjester wrote:
https://babylonbee.com/news/republican- ... tan-crisis
Simonjester wrote:
I Shrugged wrote: ↑Thu Sep 02, 2021 6:42 pm
I'm suspicious of Biden's motives, but so far I have to strongly applaud his stated explanations for getting us out of there, and his disdain for remaking nations in our image. And of course Lindsay Graham is very angry.
https://babylonbee.com/news/republican- ... tan-crisis
I agree with both of you. Sadly, IMO, the senior officers in the planetarium (the guys who should be resigning) are currently shitbags, so maybe the field grade officers are feeling mounting pressure.Hal wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 7:43 amShould have retired/resigned first in my opinion....Kbg wrote: ↑Sat Aug 28, 2021 4:09 pm Completely over the line for a serving military officer.
It will be interesting to see if he does get court martialed and booted out. I hope he didn’t do it on the spur of the moment and talked to his wife about the potential consequences in advance. If he does get kicked out his pension is gone.
https://flagofficers4america.com/read-a ... bf2eec4e5b
Most GOs I know are good folks and try to do the right thing. One notable exception is if they were promoted multiple years early and are in over their heads. I don't think people realize at the very senior levels where civilians are the ones giving the orders the same dynamic exists as between a Sergeant and a Private. "Thank you for your input, shut up and color. Am I clear?" Said more eloquently of course but the bottom line is the same. There is always the cry "they should have resigned" if they didn't agree with something. I pose the metaphorical, why, if it wasn't illegal, unethical or immoral? Biden was/is clearly within his prerogative/constitutional power as the President to wrap up any conflict he feels like. The US military is bought and paid for to execute political policy, full stop no exceptions (illegal, immoral, unethical excepted).Kriegsspiel wrote: ↑Fri Sep 03, 2021 5:52 pmI agree with both of you. Sadly, IMO, the senior officers in the planetarium (the guys who should be resigning) are currently shitbags, so maybe the field grade officers are feeling mounting pressure.Hal wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 7:43 amShould have retired/resigned first in my opinion....Kbg wrote: ↑Sat Aug 28, 2021 4:09 pm Completely over the line for a serving military officer.
It will be interesting to see if he does get court martialed and booted out. I hope he didn’t do it on the spur of the moment and talked to his wife about the potential consequences in advance. If he does get kicked out his pension is gone.
https://flagofficers4america.com/read-a ... bf2eec4e5b