Biden a Disaster?

KayFaybe
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Re: Biden a Disaster?

Post by KayFaybe » Mon Aug 23, 2021 12:39 pm

I admit that I am mystified as to Maddy's reaction to me. Us girls need to stick together!

I've looked at some of Maddy's historical posts, and I completely agree with her:

1. You can't trust people, especially liberals.
2. They're out to get us -- so smoke 'em out.
3. COVID is a complete fabrication -- it's about control
4. COVID vaccine is benign at best, deadly at worst, and also about the need for liberals to control us

Here are some recent ones:
Maddy wrote:
Sun Aug 15, 2021 12:21 pm
There are two types of people in this world: Those who want to control others, and those that want to be left alone. But what motivates the control freaks? Why are they the way they are? Let;s examine some of the causes…
Maddy wrote:
Fri Aug 13, 2021 9:56 pm
Don't they get that there is no end to this?
Maddy wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 12:44 pm
It is now apparent that Moderna had already completed development of its mRNA gene therapy shot in 2019 BEFORE COVID-19 was announced to be spreading from China to the world. This has serious ramifications to the entire pandemic narrative.

There are only two possibilities. First, Moderna had advance knowledge of the COVID-19 virus and created a shot to prepare for it. Second, Moderna didn’t have advance knowledge but was developing a generic gene therapy treatment that could be directed toward any type of coronavirus. Either possibility is disturbing.
https://www.technocracy.news/mercola-mo ... announced/
Again, as a long-time Republican / libertarian / anarchist / Trump voter, I'm in complete agreement with all these posts. So I am confused.
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Re: Biden a Disaster?

Post by Tortoise » Mon Aug 23, 2021 2:17 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Mon Aug 23, 2021 1:06 pm
*Simply not being Trump does not count; the Dems could have found a less awful candidate.
That qualification is probably why nobody has answered your question so far. The silence speaks volumes.

How bad does a US president have to be to be outweigh Orange Man's mean tweets? Amazingly, we have yet to find out.
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Re: Biden a Disaster?

Post by Kbg » Mon Aug 23, 2021 2:19 pm

FInally, may I just say that the flood of worthless posts from a (very) small number of contributors is doing a lot more to destroy the forum than a bit of online bickering or a preponderance of politically oriented posts. It's difficult to hold a discussion that gets derailed about every 3rd post, also.

Sophie, agreed! However, I do think there has been a qualitative change in the other section. There's opinion and there are established facts. I personally have a problem respecting or wanting to engage in a respectful dialogue with people who believe flat out lying or distorting truth is ok so long as they believe it is truth. However, (beyond the board) I have hope this trend is changing. I think people have got to the point of "enough already." No one or any media venue is required to perpetuate lies no matter how much the purveyors believe them to be true.

KBG, if you don't like the political and other sections, just opt out like I did with the VP section. You can still discuss the PP to your heart's content.

Pug, first I had no idea you started the thread (didn't pay attention to it) so no personal dis intended but I don't really care for titles that presuppose a correct answer. Biden, first 10 months in office? is neutral, Biden, off to a spectacular start? is a biased headline.

At the end of the day you are 100% correct, I can opt out and I am not doing so. I like discussing this stuff, but I think there is a presumption on my part that people will actually debate and bring insights with some support to them from the opposing side. And if the opposing side has no good rebuttal to then admit a little rhetorical defeat. I assume those claiming to be Libertarians actually understand what Libertarians believe. If a Libertarian can't deal with a Liberal's political opinion and respect it, then said Libertarian has no clue as to what Libertarian's believe.

I won't pull a punch on this statement: This place is becoming an echo chamber dominated by a couple of pretty obnoxious posters. I think a continuation of this dynamic equals eventual board death and know for a fact that it led to several people leaving the board permanently early in the year. When someone is calling out KayFayBe and not calling out others who are doing the exact same thing then let's just dispense with the pleasant notion of being "independent thinkers" and admit obnoxious sarcasm is completely OK if it is in accord with my belief system.

I've been hanging out here for 7 years, 2000+ posts and for the vast majority of the time enjoyed spending time here...I guess I just find myself highly annoyed that I'm even debating myself about continuing.
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Re: Biden a Disaster?

Post by Maddy » Mon Aug 23, 2021 2:25 pm

I admit that I am mystified as to Maddy's reaction to me. Us girls need to stick together!

I've looked at some of Maddy's historical posts, and I completely agree with her:

1. You can't trust people, especially liberals.
2. They're out to get us -- so smoke 'em out.
3. COVID is a complete fabrication -- it's about control
4. COVID vaccine is benign at best, deadly at worst, and also about the need for liberals to control us

Here are some recent ones. . .

Again, as a long-time Republican / libertarian / anarchist / Trump voter, I'm in complete agreement with all these posts. So I am confused.
So the moderator of the forum states that he's inclined to believe that the sarcasm wars are messing everything up, and you respond by laying it on even thicker. Your point, clearly, is to tell Xan to "f.... off," so why not have the spine to come right out and say it?

Do you ever actually say what you mean, or do you just play games?
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Re: Biden a Disaster?

Post by Maddy » Mon Aug 23, 2021 2:46 pm

Kbg wrote:
Mon Aug 23, 2021 2:19 pm
When someone is calling out KayFayBe and not calling out others who are doing the exact same thing then let's just dispense with the pleasant notion of being "independent thinkers" and admit obnoxious sarcasm is completely OK if it is in accord with my belief system.
For the record, I do not enjoy any post the principal purpose of which is to heckle or disrupt.

There are plenty of times I've become annoyed by other posters, but after years of constructive participation, they've earned some latitude. Not so when you have less than 20 posts to your name and not a one of them offers anything of substance.
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Re: Biden a Disaster?

Post by Kbg » Mon Aug 23, 2021 3:00 pm

Maddy wrote:
Mon Aug 23, 2021 2:46 pm
Kbg wrote:
Mon Aug 23, 2021 2:19 pm
When someone is calling out KayFayBe and not calling out others who are doing the exact same thing then let's just dispense with the pleasant notion of being "independent thinkers" and admit obnoxious sarcasm is completely OK if it is in accord with my belief system.
For the record, I do not enjoy any post the principal purpose of which is to heckle or disrupt.

There are plenty of times I've become annoyed by other posters, but after years of constructive participation, they've earned some latitude. Not so when you have less than 20 posts to your name and not a one of them offers anything of substance.
How about the poster who brought the sarcastic pseudo post genre to the board, has posted 1144 times since March of 2020, and has less than 1% value added content?

Pass or no pass? Just curious where the line is.
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Re: Biden a Disaster?

Post by Maddy » Mon Aug 23, 2021 3:26 pm

Kbg wrote:
Mon Aug 23, 2021 3:00 pm
Maddy wrote:
Mon Aug 23, 2021 2:46 pm
Kbg wrote:
Mon Aug 23, 2021 2:19 pm
When someone is calling out KayFayBe and not calling out others who are doing the exact same thing then let's just dispense with the pleasant notion of being "independent thinkers" and admit obnoxious sarcasm is completely OK if it is in accord with my belief system.
For the record, I do not enjoy any post the principal purpose of which is to heckle or disrupt.

There are plenty of times I've become annoyed by other posters, but after years of constructive participation, they've earned some latitude. Not so when you have less than 20 posts to your name and not a one of them offers anything of substance.
How about the poster who brought the sarcastic pseudo post genre to the board, has posted 1144 times since March of 2020, and has less than 1% value added content?

Pass or no pass? Just curious where the line is.
It's not something I plan to discuss on this board. End of discussion.
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Re: Biden"s First 8 months

Post by Kbg » Mon Aug 23, 2021 6:01 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Mon Aug 23, 2021 5:40 pm
So will no one here admit to voting for Biden? Can not one person who did so answer my question?
Pug,

I’m guessing no one left on the board has Democratic Party leanings hence no response. Looks to me like he is pandering to his base mostly and isn’t the promised centrist. I don’t find that terribly shocking. That’s pretty much what Trump and most politicians do these days. Fiscally, things definitely aren’t to my preferences. The amount of debt being rung up is astounding but it’s not like Republicans actually care about that stuff anymore either.
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Re: Biden a Disaster?

Post by Mountaineer » Mon Aug 23, 2021 6:50 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Wed Aug 18, 2021 3:02 pm
It has been 7 months in office for Joe, and, at least in my opinion, he has been an unmitigated disaster.

Just curious if those of you who voted for him are still happy with your choice and if so, what has he done* to make you feel that way?



*Simply not being Trump does not count; the Dems could have found a less awful candidate.
Did not vote for him. I’m familiar with all the stories about him going back to when his first wife was killed in a car wreck caused by her and subsequently tried to be pinned on the person she pulled out in front of and the additionally subsequent coverup. The guy is an embarrassment to anyone with a shred of morals. Current handling of the Afghanistan debacle is proof of his incompetence. Nuff said.
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
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Re: Biden"s First 8 months

Post by vnatale » Mon Aug 23, 2021 7:10 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Mon Aug 23, 2021 5:40 pm

So will no one here admit to voting for Biden? Can not one person who did so answer my question?


I've oftentimes stated that since I first voted in 1972 I have always voted for the Democratic presidential candidate (but certainly not for all the other Democrats running).

However that stopped in 2020 when the Democrats chose to run some who I have detested for 30 years.

So I'm not going to defend him in any way.

It was a sad commentary on our country that each party's choices were as bad as they were. In my lifetime I know there was not any election even close to having two such poor candidates. Going back to history I'm not aware of any other pair collectively as bad.
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Biden a Disaster?

Post by KayFaybe » Mon Aug 23, 2021 8:05 pm

Xan wrote:
Sun Aug 22, 2021 4:32 pm
tomfoolery wrote:
Sun Aug 22, 2021 3:45 pm
KayFaybe wrote:
Sun Aug 22, 2021 2:55 pm

As we all know:

1. Donald Trump is the greatest president in U.S. history.
2. Donald Trump is the most Christian man in, oh... 2021 years.
3. He is the greatest anti-war president in history.

etc.
I'll take your word for it, if I recall correctly, you have a PhD or some advanced degree in military history?
Please stop accusing KayFaybe and kbg of being the same person. There isn't any evidence for it and they've explicitly denied it.
Thank you for your forthrightness, Xan.

I again say that I am puzzled by the reaction to my posts. I've been here for about 20 days and made 20 or so posts. My politics align with almost everyone remaining here (now that those all the blatant wokesters have left -- thank God). But some posters can't stop talking about me, and they accuse me of destroying the forum. What's up with that? I don't want the attention. I'm just a long-time Republican / anarchist / Libertarian / Trump fan whose just trying to avoid the wrath of the liberal masses who are out to get us.

As a long-time lurker, it appears to me that the historical guidance is exactly as MangoMan mentioned above:

* Skip the threads you don't like.
* Ignore the posts you don't like.
* Ignore the posters you don't like
* And if that isn't good enough, make those posters a foe.

What's so hard about that?
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Re: Biden"s First 8 months

Post by SomeDude » Mon Aug 23, 2021 8:37 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Mon Aug 23, 2021 5:40 pm
So will no one here admit to voting for Biden? Can not one person who did so answer my question?
Do we have any dominion machines as members?
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Re: Biden a Disaster?

Post by SomeDude » Mon Aug 23, 2021 8:40 pm

Maddy wrote:
Mon Aug 23, 2021 2:25 pm
I admit that I am mystified as to Maddy's reaction to me. Us girls need to stick together!

I've looked at some of Maddy's historical posts, and I completely agree with her:

1. You can't trust people, especially liberals.
2. They're out to get us -- so smoke 'em out.
3. COVID is a complete fabrication -- it's about control
4. COVID vaccine is benign at best, deadly at worst, and also about the need for liberals to control us

Here are some recent ones. . .

Again, as a long-time Republican / libertarian / anarchist / Trump voter, I'm in complete agreement with all these posts. So I am confused.
So the moderator of the forum states that he's inclined to believe that the sarcasm wars are messing everything up, and you respond by laying it on even thicker. Your point, clearly, is to tell Xan to "f.... off," so why not have the spine to come right out and say it?

Do you ever actually say what you mean, or do you just play games?
This personality is a second account of a regular poster and it's pretty obvious who. Both should be set to ignore if you want interesting discussion.
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Re: Biden"s First 8 months

Post by moda0306 » Mon Aug 23, 2021 9:09 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Mon Aug 23, 2021 5:40 pm
So will no one here admit to voting for Biden? Can not one person who did so answer my question?
I voted for Biden... because my vote was mostly on foreign policy and civil liberties I was left with two terrible choices, but was 55/45 Biden/Trump, to me... mostly on the fact that Biden had (reportedly) been an anti-interventionist force in the Obama admin, in spite of his absolutely terrible past in the senate supporting wars. Scott Horton almost pulled me into voting for Trump, as he thought he'd be slightly better on foreign policy, but I had too many doubts.

To all this Afghanistan stuff... I'm glad Biden pulled out, and would've loved if he'd have come clean on the complete 180 degree turnaround on the state of affairs in Afghanistan and totally regeared our efforts towards leaving knowing the Taliban would likely take power, but that was/is a pipe dream. If Biden had taken all military equipment, Americans and loyal Afghanis out... the very tools the Afghan government would've used to defend such an attack if it was possible, I'd have been supportive of it, but he would've been even more shat on than he is now. He'd likely have also had to negotiated with the Taliban far-more than Trump did, which I'd have been ok seeing, but once again, this simply wasn't going to happen.

But we've seen clueless status-quo in Afghanistan since 2003 or so when we lost track of Osama... arguably even before then when we chose full invasion rather than negotiation with the Taliban. To only NOW come out of the woodwork up in arms about this embarrassment is ridiculous. The degree of self-delusion we were going through the last 20 years in Afghanistan is astonishing, so put in that context, nothing seems too crazy to me now with the withdrawl.

I get people being embarrassed by Biden. I am. He's a rapey, senile joke, just like Trump. No enthusiastic Trump-voter gets to feign astonishment and despair, however. This was largely a Trump plan, budgeted for 4 months after his exit. I actually give Trump credit for wanting to get out of there, in spite of his more aggressive posture in the preceding 4 years there.
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Re: Biden a Disaster?

Post by KayFaybe » Tue Aug 24, 2021 6:46 am

SomeDude wrote:
Mon Aug 23, 2021 8:40 pm
Maddy wrote:
Mon Aug 23, 2021 2:25 pm
I admit that I am mystified as to Maddy's reaction to me. Us girls need to stick together!

I've looked at some of Maddy's historical posts, and I completely agree with her:

1. You can't trust people, especially liberals.
2. They're out to get us -- so smoke 'em out.
3. COVID is a complete fabrication -- it's about control
4. COVID vaccine is benign at best, deadly at worst, and also about the need for liberals to control us

Here are some recent ones. . .

Again, as a long-time Republican / libertarian / anarchist / Trump voter, I'm in complete agreement with all these posts. So I am confused.
So the moderator of the forum states that he's inclined to believe that the sarcasm wars are messing everything up, and you respond by laying it on even thicker. Your point, clearly, is to tell Xan to "f.... off," so why not have the spine to come right out and say it?

Do you ever actually say what you mean, or do you just play games?
This personality is a second account of a regular poster and it's pretty obvious who. Both should be set to ignore if you want interesting discussion.
Wait, you are saying that Maddy's account is a second account of a regular poster? It sure looks like you are.

But assuming you are not, and that you mean me (KayFaybe), I can most assuredly say that your accusation is false.

I find it curious that
  • blatant lies about me -- and about this "second poster" -- go without comment by anyone (though, to his credit, Xan has admonished tomfoolery for making a similar accusation)
  • SomeDude doesn't even bother to say who the second poster is -- which sure sounds like "playing games" to me.
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Re: Biden a Disaster?

Post by Kbg » Tue Aug 24, 2021 8:41 am

For the record, I have no idea who KayFayBe is and I am not using a second account and posting as KayFayBe. I would think Xan could confirm that via IP addresses and I'm fine if he does so long as he doesn't post the IP addresses. (Yes I know about VPNs, I have one, but I don't use it that much.)

If I feel the need for snark and sarcasm I'll happily post under my own kbg label.

I would love to see TF and KFB face off in a snark-a-thon thread though. Seriously, I think that would be quite entertaining.
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Re: Biden a Disaster?

Post by sophie » Tue Aug 24, 2021 9:01 am

Interesting how STILL no one who admits to voting for Biden has responded to MangoMan.

I conclude that those of us who remain sane and socially gracious all seem to be those who did not vote for Biden. Where are those posters who heaped so much vitriole against us and That Other Candidate who shall remain nameless?

And, has anyone noticed that Biden's administration (and whoever is pulling his strings) is replicating the 1970s to an amazing degree? High crime, inflation/stagflation, and now an impending Middle East hostage crisis? The only missing piece is the gas shortage, but I expect that's next. They've been working on that one too, by shutting down US/North American oil production. The border crisis is there to add some extra spice.

I don't think this is intentional. It's just the predictable result of the standard Democratic playbook which has apparently not significantly changed since the 1960s: criminals need to be treated with sympathy and not punishment or restraint, fossil fuels are evil, tax and spend like there's no tomorrow, and the world loves us so much nothing bad can happen no matter what we do on foreign soil. I guess we'll see how long voters will put up with it.
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Re: Biden"s First 8 months

Post by jalanlong » Tue Aug 24, 2021 10:41 am

vnatale wrote:
Mon Aug 23, 2021 7:10 pm
MangoMan wrote:
Mon Aug 23, 2021 5:40 pm
So will no one here admit to voting for Biden? Can not one person who did so answer my question?
I've oftentimes stated that since I first voted in 1972 I have always voted for the Democratic presidential candidate (but certainly not for all the other Democrats running).

However that stopped in 2020 when the Democrats chose to run some who I have detested for 30 years.

So I'm not going to defend him in any way.

It was a sad commentary on our country that each party's choices were as bad as they were. In my lifetime I know there was not any election even close to having two such poor candidates. Going back to history I'm not aware of any other pair collectively as bad.
That is amazing isn't it. In a nation of 331 million adults that could theoretically be President, the two best people that could be found were Trump and Biden.
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Re: Biden a Disaster?

Post by jalanlong » Tue Aug 24, 2021 10:52 am

sophie wrote:
Tue Aug 24, 2021 9:01 am
Interesting how STILL no one who admits to voting for Biden has responded to MangoMan.

I conclude that those of us who remain sane and socially gracious all seem to be those who did not vote for Biden. Where are those posters who heaped so much vitriole against us and That Other Candidate who shall remain nameless?

And, has anyone noticed that Biden's administration (and whoever is pulling his strings) is replicating the 1970s to an amazing degree? High crime, inflation/stagflation, and now an impending Middle East hostage crisis? The only missing piece is the gas shortage, but I expect that's next. They've been working on that one too, by shutting down US/North American oil production. The border crisis is there to add some extra spice.

I don't think this is intentional. It's just the predictable result of the standard Democratic playbook which has apparently not significantly changed since the 1960s: criminals need to be treated with sympathy and not punishment or restraint, fossil fuels are evil, tax and spend like there's no tomorrow, and the world loves us so much nothing bad can happen no matter what we do on foreign soil. I guess we'll see how long voters will put up with it.
My general impression of the modern voter that I have discerned from social media (for whatever that is worth) is that the majority of them are far more into optics than actual policy so I am not sure that a lot of Biden supporters would turn on him for things like inflation or a Middle East crisis. At least not enough to vote for the other party. My observation (and this goes for Trump supporters as well) is that a lot of his supporters either dont know or dont care about the details of his administration. They are voting for the image: the image of a President and Vice President who care about people, are more inclusive and tolerant, believe in science, don't espouse hate speech etc. They are voting for ideals and not policy.
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Re: Biden"s First 8 months

Post by Cortopassi » Tue Aug 24, 2021 11:02 am

MangoMan wrote:
Mon Aug 23, 2021 5:40 pm
So will no one here admit to voting for Biden? Can not one person who did so answer my question?
I opted out of the politics forum, so I don't see these. But I saw the topic on the overall view so I'll answer and add my two cents on everything else.

1) I voted for Biden. It was an exceedingly easy choice. You know who made it easy? Trump. Biden is an old fart. But Trump just took it too far with the derogatory tweets, everybody is a idiot except me stance. Couldn't take it anymore. I would have voted for Hillary this time even, just to not hear him again. You all know that might or might not be logical, but he caused it, not me. 10% more "Presidential" and he would have won by a landslide. But he couldn't do it.

2) I am very tired of trying to figure out posts from people like TF. I don't have a secret decoder ring to tell if you are being sarcastic or disingenuous, or playing devil's advocate, etc. I say what I mean, all the time (call me out if I don't)

3) I am tired of Covid discussions. The shot is fully approved now. Get it if you want (you probably already did). If you don't, don't. Just don't be one of those people they keep on putting on TV crying about how they wish they had gotten it because they almost died. Own your un-vaccinated status, even if it kills you. There's no grand conspiracy to cull the human race with the shot.

4) I am also tired of posting genuine responses to questions and getting crazy off the wall misdirections and non-answers.

5) Like Sophie I believe says, the PP is holding its own, so little discussion is happening in the investment portions, all on these other discussions instead.
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Re: Biden a Disaster?

Post by KayFaybe » Tue Aug 24, 2021 1:02 pm

sophie wrote:
Tue Aug 24, 2021 9:01 am
Interesting how STILL no one who admits to voting for Biden has responded to MangoMan.
Actually, if you look above, you'll see that moda0306 - an admitted Biden voter - responded to MangoMan Monday night, and MangoMan gratefully acknowledged his reponse earlier Tuesday morning (Biden voter Cortopassi responded later). I know general forum culture is such that such avowed liberals who only want to control us are marginalized and ignored (as made clear in this thread*). But to even this long-time Republican / libertarian / anarchist / Trump voter, it doesn't seem exactly right to ask for input from a class of posters that we ignore, and then chide them for not responding.

If it this was a simple oversight, then I apologize.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
* I note that the marginalization and ignoring was not any sort of board/moderator policy, but just something that board culture evolved to (thanks goodness).
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Re: Biden"s First 8 months

Post by moda0306 » Tue Aug 24, 2021 3:59 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Tue Aug 24, 2021 7:07 am
moda0306 wrote:
Mon Aug 23, 2021 9:09 pm
MangoMan wrote:
Mon Aug 23, 2021 5:40 pm
So will no one here admit to voting for Biden? Can not one person who did so answer my question?
I voted for Biden... because my vote was mostly on foreign policy and civil liberties I was left with two terrible choices, but was 55/45 Biden/Trump, to me... mostly on the fact that Biden had (reportedly) been an anti-interventionist force in the Obama admin, in spite of his absolutely terrible past in the senate supporting wars. Scott Horton almost pulled me into voting for Trump, as he thought he'd be slightly better on foreign policy, but I had too many doubts.

To all this Afghanistan stuff... I'm glad Biden pulled out, and would've loved if he'd have come clean on the complete 180 degree turnaround on the state of affairs in Afghanistan and totally regeared our efforts towards leaving knowing the Taliban would likely take power, but that was/is a pipe dream. If Biden had taken all military equipment, Americans and loyal Afghanis out... the very tools the Afghan government would've used to defend such an attack if it was possible, I'd have been supportive of it, but he would've been even more shat on than he is now. He'd likely have also had to negotiated with the Taliban far-more than Trump did, which I'd have been ok seeing, but once again, this simply wasn't going to happen.

But we've seen clueless status-quo in Afghanistan since 2003 or so when we lost track of Osama... arguably even before then when we chose full invasion rather than negotiation with the Taliban. To only NOW come out of the woodwork up in arms about this embarrassment is ridiculous. The degree of self-delusion we were going through the last 20 years in Afghanistan is astonishing, so put in that context, nothing seems too crazy to me now with the withdrawl.

I get people being embarrassed by Biden. I am. He's a rapey, senile joke, just like Trump. No enthusiastic Trump-voter gets to feign astonishment and despair, however. This was largely a Trump plan, budgeted for 4 months after his exit. I actually give Trump credit for wanting to get out of there, in spite of his more aggressive posture in the preceding 4 years there.
First, thank you for replying and doing so in an informative manner.

I am not familiar with Scott Horton, but you mention foreign policy and civil liberties as your key issues. No matter ones opinion of his personality, I thought Trump had done an outstanding job internationally, particularly in N Korea and Israel/Palestine. I also liked his willingness to push European leaders to carry their weight instead of expecting the US to do everything. I'm not sure how you thought Biden was going to improve on that; clearly he has basically taken a 180 degree turn on most all of it. Was that the expectation?

Civil liberties have quickly deteriorated here unless you happen to be a criminal, in which case it has been a bonanza. I used to go into Chicago periodically to take advantage of its many wonderful offerings, but have no desire to go near it now with the out-of-control car jackings, muggings and shootings, the result of lack of policing and lack of prosecution. The Biden administration has kept quiet on if not encouraged the destruction of our cities (I guess I should be thankful I don't live in Portland).
Well it'd be an understatement to say that we just disagree on foreign policy. I'm extremely anti-war and think America's support of Israel has been one of the clearest foreign policy errors we've chosen to engage in. Israel was founded on settler-colonialism, terrorism and ethnic cleansing, and we should remove all support for them unless they offer Palestinians either a state at the '67 borders or full civic rights.

I think Trump's continued support for the Saudi genocide in Yemen, even vetoing a congressional vote to end it, was absolutely terrible. I have mixed feelings on N. Korea... he went from threatening nuclear war to bragging about love letters. His actions towards Iran were absolutely terrible. ISIS fell apart under his reign, but I don't know how much credit to give him for that. They were a ticking time bomb and were never going to represent a permanent or catastrophic threat. His main accomplishment, to me, was setting the time-table for withdrawal in Afghanistan.

So yeah we just deeply disagree here on what the ideal policies were...

To civil liberties, crime has ticked up a bit... but it's totally overblown IMO...

https://www.bbc.com/news/57581270

To me the police and criminal "justice" establishment have been and still are extremely corrupt and inept.

And while I don't like COVID state orders, those are mostly state issues. The president is most tuned into civil liberties issues that deal with NSA surveillance and how the federal policing apparatuses are used. Also the absolutely terrible federal war on drugs and militant immigration enforcement were/are things I'm strongly opposed to. Neither Biden nor Trump had anything to brag about here, which is again why I wasn't 100% confident that a Biden vote was the best choice.

Again... these are probably areas we just simply deeply disagree on what consists of "good state policy." Which is fine. I'm used to disagreeing with conservatives and hawks.
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Re: Biden"s First 8 months

Post by Maddy » Tue Aug 24, 2021 4:25 pm

moda0306 wrote:
Tue Aug 24, 2021 3:59 pm
And while I don't like COVID state orders, those are mostly state issues.
Perhaps in theory, but hardly in practice. The CDC and Fauci get to own this one.
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Re: Biden"s First 8 months

Post by moda0306 » Tue Aug 24, 2021 4:46 pm

Maddy wrote:
Tue Aug 24, 2021 4:25 pm
moda0306 wrote:
Tue Aug 24, 2021 3:59 pm
And while I don't like COVID state orders, those are mostly state issues.
Perhaps in theory, but hardly in practice. The CDC and Fauci get to own this one.
I mean the majority of the civil libertarian issues relating to vaccines/COVID are at the state/local/school-district level. Not nationally. I'm not saying there's nothing federally, but it's not my primary concern as it pertains to unchecked federal power and violence towards people.

And not to mention, most people that might be good on COVID are absolutely terrible on police power, so it's just a weird time to be a civil libertarian.
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Re: Biden a Disaster?

Post by D1984 » Tue Aug 24, 2021 4:58 pm

sophie wrote:
Tue Aug 24, 2021 9:01 am
Interesting how STILL no one who admits to voting for Biden has responded to MangoMan.

I conclude that those of us who remain sane and socially gracious all seem to be those who did not vote for Biden. Where are those posters who heaped so much vitriole against us and That Other Candidate who shall remain nameless?

And, has anyone noticed that Biden's administration (and whoever is pulling his strings) is replicating the 1970s to an amazing degree? High crime, inflation/stagflation, and now an impending Middle East hostage crisis? The only missing piece is the gas shortage, but I expect that's next. They've been working on that one too, by shutting down US/North American oil production. The border crisis is there to add some extra spice.

I don't think this is intentional. It's just the predictable result of the standard Democratic playbook which has apparently not significantly changed since the 1960s: criminals need to be treated with sympathy and not punishment or restraint, fossil fuels are evil, tax and spend like there's no tomorrow, and the world loves us so much nothing bad can happen no matter what we do on foreign soil. I guess we'll see how long voters will put up with it.
I voted for Biden. He wasn't even first choice (or indeed even my sixth or seventh choice) among the Democrats but he was better than a Republican.

The reasons I voted for him (the issues of most concern to me) were:

1. Healthcare (in general). Biden was for building on the ACA and expanding and improving it. Trump (and indeed pretty much the entire GOP) want to get rid of it and replace it with what amounts to nothing (i.e. the pre-ACA status quo or worse) and tens of millions of uninsured Americans. The American Rescue Plan (championed by Biden and passed by a Dem majority House and Senate) expands ACA subsidies for the next two years and if the $3.5 trillion over the next ten years "human infrastructure" bill passes then hopefully the expanded ACA subsidies become permanent. Maybe eventually (although probably not in the near future) we might even get a public option "Medicare for All who want it" type of thing (hopefully with all payer rate setting as well)....but baby steps first, a more generous ACA is still good even if we never get any of the above. Given my absolute preference I'd actually prefer true single-paper Improved Medicare For All over an expanded ACA but half a loaf is better than no loaf at all.

2. COVID (in particular). Trump and most of the GOP don't seem to take COVID as seriously as it needs to be taken and approach it as a "muh freedom" issue rather than as the public health issue it is (and don't even get me started on anti-vaxxism which seems to be a big thing amongst a lot of the GOP base these days). Well, guess what....your freedom ends where everyone else's right not to risk being infected begins. At least Biden is 100% behind vaccination....the GOP....not so much.

3. Environment/global warming. Trump and the GOP would do nothing to solve this. Their solution always seems to "be burn more fossil fuels and to hell with the climate consequences". As relatively meager as the steps Biden and the Dems are taking in the infrastructure bill (and in related stuff like EV mandates and in accelerating higher CAFE standards) are, at least they're better than nothing.

4. Trying to lessen economic inequality. By being willing to increases taxes on the wealthy, by being in favor of things like higher minimum wages (albeit good luck getting that one through the Senate at the moment given the filibuster as it stands), union organizing, and a stakeholder model of capitalism vs just a pure shareholder one, at least Biden and (most) of the D's are standing up for average working Americans (I would also include appointing/reappointing people at Treasury and the Fed like Powell and Yellen.....we finally have a Fed and Treasury that are in favor of full employment even if it does bring a risk of a bit higher inflation.....rather than pissing their pants every time wages begin to show any strong sign of growth like the Fed has too many times done over the past forty or so years). Are Biden and the current Democrats perfect? No....but what they are offering beats the hell out of the supply-side trickle down crap from the GOP that hasn't worked for most working and middle class Americans for the past few decades. Would I go a lot farther if I was in charge as some kind of hypothetical absolute ruler? Yes....but I also realize Biden is not any kind of king or dictator and that he has a very narrow majority in the House and virtually no majority in the Senate at all and that given thsi reality he's doing all he can.

5. Finally getting us out of Afghanistan and (hopefully) beginning to put an end to the "forever wars". I actually almost didn't include this one because to be fair I presume Trump (having already started the process in 2020) would have likely done so as well. Biden deserves credit, though, for not caving in to the whole "the world is ending" panic from hawks and neocons in the media when the Taliban beat the Afghan government more quickly than anyone expected and immediately sending in more American troops to try and "save" the situation. Afghanistan was an unwinnable quagmire and I for one am glad we're finally getting the hell out.


As for the rest of the stuff you mentioned.

Crime - Not really much of an issue for me. I have a carry permit and a pistol. Anyone tries to rob/assault/rape/murder me and they are getting shot.

Also, if we are so "soft on crime" and doing so results in supposedly soaring crime rates, how do you explain how, say, Scandinavia has lower violent crime rates than us despite sentences that are a fraction of ours and prisons that are so "soft" and non-harsh by American standards they are almost unbelievable to American eyes?

Inflation - Very little sign of a self-reinforcing 1970s style wage-margin-price spiral so far. Overall wage growth is actually slightly below inflation over the past 12 months. Productivity growth hasn't been bad either (unlike the stagflationary period from, say, late 1976 to 1982). Most inflation so far has been in the new and used auto sectors (which is largely due to more demand than supply and then supply can't fully ramp up thanks to a chip shortage....not much Biden can do about that in the immediate sense unless somehow he can build a time machine and go back to 2020 and tell automakers not to cancel/reduce all their chip orders because this time government and the central bank will actually do their damn jobs and thus the recovery won't be nearly as slow as the ones from the early 2000s and 2008-09 recession), in airline ticket and cruise prices (surging demand from all the people who weren't able to use these services in 2020....which will even itself out in a year or so...or maybe less than that if the delta variant keeps doing its thing like it has been), and fuel (there's a reason core inflation doesn't include highly volatile fuel and food prices). If after another, say, six/seven/eight months goes by and every major economic goods and services sector is showing inflation in the 5.5% or 6% or higher range y-o-y I'd be more worried but right now I'd say that inflation expectations remain relatively anchored long-term at between 2.2 and 2.5% (judging by the TIPS spread) per year on average.

"Tax and spend like there's no tomorrow" - As compared to the GOP's "borrow and spend like there's no tomorrow"? Every time the GOP gets a trifecta they always pass a bunch of tax cuts for their wealthy campaign contributors and they never care about trying to pay for them. The previous two Democratic administrations tried to be somewhat "fiscally responsible" and therefore scaled back their fiscal spending plans; Clinton--even after not getting his healthcare plan passed for reasons that had little to do with spending and thus in a situation where he should've had ample budgetary room given the post Cold War "peace dividend"--had to shelve most of his planned middle class tax cuts, cut Federal spending in several areas, hike motor fuel taxes (among other taxes), and altogether aim for almost $500 billion of deficit reduction over the next five years rather than run up the debt and deficit by spending on his party's priorities - and Obama only doing a $787 billion stimulus when an amount closer to $2 trillion would've been actually needed given the hole we were in vis-a-vis potential GDP vs actual GDP); I guess the Dems finally got tired of R hypocrisy on the whole "fiscal discipline" issue and said "screw it; if they can do it we can too".
Last edited by D1984 on Tue Aug 24, 2021 6:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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