Trump reelection bid

If Trump announced he was going to run in 2024 would you vote for him knowing what you know today?

Yes
3
15%
No
17
85%
 
Total votes: 20
dockinGA
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Re: Trump reelection bid

Post by dockinGA » Fri Aug 19, 2022 8:36 pm

Xan wrote:
Wed Aug 17, 2022 9:31 am
Look at it this way: Trump has exposed a flaw in the system. Let's button it up so that a narcissist like him can't make the outlandish claims he's making.

My biggest fear is that neither party actually wants 100% verifiable elections so that they have room to claim "fraud" when they lose. This is a major problem.
Excellent comment. Can't stand Trump and think he's the most despicable person to ever set foot in the White House. But I don't like the other side, either, and Trump has exposed gaping holes in our systems and cultural norms that someone much more savvy and intelligent than him could easily exploit, to even more damaging results.
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Re: Trump reelection bid

Post by dockinGA » Sat Aug 20, 2022 8:08 am

MangoMan wrote:
Sat Aug 20, 2022 6:57 am
dockinGA wrote:
Fri Aug 19, 2022 8:30 pm
MangoMan wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:49 pm
Okay thanks. Whether or not we believe there was fraud in 2020, the reality is that unless the country can be assured that elections are legit and FULLY AUDITABLE, we are going to have a real problem going forward.
I agree with you on the fully auditable part, but Trump himself is largely responsible for the current belief that our elections aren't legit. He bears alot of the blame in bringing us to the point where the next election could very realistically tip us into a constitutional crisis.
Just because you hate him, doesn't make it true: Hillary Clinton Maintains 2016 Election ‘Was Not On the Level'
That article is from 2020. Trump was sowing the seeds of election integrity issues in 2016, as you'll recall. Also, I don't see Hillary blaring on about election fraud, day after day after day, in front of a rabid crowd of cultists primed to believe anything Dear Leader tells them. Some random yahoo article about a washed up old hag of a presidential candidate that gets a few hundred views and is quickly forgotten is not on the same plane as the president of the USA saying it, knowing there isn't a shred of evidence to back up what he's saying. I would argue his offense is punishable by execution, if it can be proven that he knew full well what he was doing, that's how egregious I think it is.

For the record, I hate Hillary too. And any politician, from either side of the aisle, blabbering on about things like this without any shred of legitimate evidence is playing with fire. They know it, they just don't care.
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Re: Trump reelection bid

Post by dualstow » Sat Aug 20, 2022 11:50 am

dockinGA wrote:
Fri Aug 19, 2022 8:30 pm
…, but Trump himself is largely responsible for the current belief that our elections aren't legit. He bears alot of the blame in bringing us to the point where the next election could very realistically tip us into a constitutional crisis.
+1

I regret that I ever said anything suggesting that maybe there were some fishy goings on with the election.

The overwhelmingly important point is that we now have the Jan 6 incursion, threats against Supreme Court Justices, the attempted assassination of Brett Kavanaugh, etc. This is the upshot of people making their own reality, on both sides. Scary times.
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Re: Trump reelection bid

Post by dockinGA » Sat Aug 20, 2022 2:15 pm

dualstow wrote:
Sat Aug 20, 2022 11:50 am
dockinGA wrote:
Fri Aug 19, 2022 8:30 pm
…, but Trump himself is largely responsible for the current belief that our elections aren't legit. He bears alot of the blame in bringing us to the point where the next election could very realistically tip us into a constitutional crisis.
+1

I regret that I ever said anything suggesting that maybe there were some fishy goings on with the election.

The overwhelmingly important point is that we now have the Jan 6 incursion, threats against Supreme Court Justices, the attempted assassination of Brett Kavanaugh, etc. This is the upshot of people making their own reality, on both sides. Scary times.
Scary times indeed.

I like to bring up a point some times to illustrate the societal "fabric" that exists in the US that doesn't exist in many other places around the globe. Think about a 4 way traffic stop in your neighborhood. How often, if ever, do you see police patrolling said traffic stop, and yet by and large everyone politely pulls up to the stop signs, waits their turn, and everything functions smoothly. It functions smoothly because there are laws, based on respect and order, that everyone tacitly agrees to abide by for the good of each other, whether or not the police are there to enforce the rules. In fact, the police can't be there all the time, but it's ok, because everyone is treating others with respect. I've been to India, and I'm sure I don't need to tell everyone how these things get treated in a place like India. Not trying to bash on India, just saying there's something noticeably different.

This analogy carries over to the world of politics, and we are seeing that societal fabric being destroyed as we speak. There are rules and laws that must be adhered to, all of them boiling down to respect for your fellow man and respect for the rule of law. When this goes, we will see a devolution of society, and if you think you will come out better on the other side of that devolution, I suggest you think again. You won't. Some will, but if you're here posting on investing forums it won't be you.

All this goes for folks on both sides of the aisle. Both are bad, but right now there is a rabble-rouser in chief, his cronies, and his minions who are openly flaunting the rules, all while claiming to be the party of law and order. This is straight out of a playbook that's been used by strongmen for centuries, I suppose, but the results are never good for anyone in any country where one of these guys come to power. We should also remember that a very likely scenario is that, when this societal fabric is well and truly torn, it won't be someone you agree with wielding the big stick. Heck, it could even turn out like the French revolution, where everyone eventually gets their turn at the guillotine.
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Re: Trump reelection bid

Post by boglerdude » Sat Aug 20, 2022 6:50 pm

1) Trump didnt push house arrest and inoculations at gunpoint. (Although he is a conman, and may have tacitly supported it. All the oligarchs seized much more power)

2) So we need to shore up the rules right? Close the border, Voter ID, paper ballots, less political discussion in schools, more gridlock in government (filibuster) so those scumbags cant get anything done, ban stock trading by congress
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Re: Trump reelection bid

Post by dockinGA » Sun Aug 21, 2022 5:53 am

boglerdude wrote:
Sat Aug 20, 2022 6:50 pm
1) Trump didnt push house arrest and inoculations at gunpoint. (Although he is a conman, and may have tacitly supported it. All the oligarchs seized much more power)

2) So we need to shore up the rules right? Close the border, Voter ID, paper ballots, less political discussion in schools, more gridlock in government (filibuster) so those scumbags cant get anything done, ban stock trading by congress
I don't remember being under house arrest at any point, but I agree with most of your point 2. Even if, as a nation, there are rules and laws that we don't like anymore, the answer isn't just for one side or the other to refuse to enforce or abide by them. There are mechanisms in place to make changes to any and all laws that we have, but if you don't have the support to change ones you don't like, you've still got to abide by them.
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Re: Trump reelection bid

Post by doodle » Sun Aug 21, 2022 9:57 am

boglerdude wrote:
Sat Aug 20, 2022 6:50 pm
1) Trump didnt push house arrest and inoculations at gunpoint. (Although he is a conman, and may have tacitly supported it. All the oligarchs seized much more power)

2) So we need to shore up the rules right? Close the border, Voter ID, paper ballots, less political discussion in schools, more gridlock in government (filibuster) so those scumbags cant get anything done, ban stock trading by congress
House arrest and innoculations at gunpoint? Where?

I agree with some of your points in number 2. I don't think a government that can't get anything done however is going to serve us well in the long run. We have some large infrastructure deficits that need addressing for example.

The flaunting of rule of law and institutions by Trump and his ilk is a major issue to the long term stability and viability of our republic.
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Re: Trump reelection bid

Post by doodle » Sun Aug 21, 2022 11:47 am

Thats pretty extreme language. I agree that the double standard regarding business operation during pandemic was wrong....however so were the trillions in money given out to businesses as PPP loans that were later forgiven resulting in a windfall for many business owners.

As far as vaccines and job losses, lack of admission etc. There is still an element of choice there but it is complicated. I guess the message is that you are free to hold positions that run counter to society at large but don't expect to be included into society at large as well. One is free to walk around dressed like Hitler and wave the nazi flag but one should expect to be excluded and asked to leave...this isn't enforcing dress codes at gunpoint.
Last edited by doodle on Sun Aug 21, 2022 12:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Trump reelection bid

Post by doodle » Sun Aug 21, 2022 12:01 pm

I understand the fear some feel towards what is emanating from the left....but to me, this is a much greater fear currently
article-2684147-1F77DA7200000578-259_634x355.jpg
article-2684147-1F77DA7200000578-259_634x355.jpg (90.89 KiB) Viewed 5525 times
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Re: Trump reelection bid

Post by Mountaineer » Sun Aug 21, 2022 12:33 pm

My apologies in advance if this isn't a good thread to post this in.

May I suggest that you read "The Harbinger" by Jonathan Cahn if you have not. Fascinating read and so many connections of events. Very well written and entertaining even if you don't believe the events that prompted his story. It's been around for 10 years or so and was a best seller but I just read it yesterday.
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
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Re: Trump reelection bid

Post by dualstow » Sun Aug 21, 2022 12:56 pm

doodle wrote:
Sun Aug 21, 2022 11:47 am
Thats pretty extreme language.
I agree. Since China effectively did have house arrest, we should call our situation in the West something else. Because it wasn’t that.
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Re: Trump reelection bid

Post by joypog » Sun Aug 21, 2022 12:58 pm

Given the libertarian bent of this forum...and as we head into '24 silly season.

How well would the daughter of Dick Cheney do against the first president to incite a riot in the capital do on this forum?
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Re: Trump reelection bid

Post by Mountaineer » Sun Aug 21, 2022 1:08 pm

joypog wrote:
Sun Aug 21, 2022 12:58 pm
Given the libertarian bent of this forum...and as we head into '24 silly season.

How well would the daughter of Dick Cheney do against the first president to incite a riot in the capital do on this forum?
About as well as Aaron Burr. 🤓
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
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Re: Trump reelection bid

Post by joypog » Sun Aug 21, 2022 1:16 pm

Mountaineer wrote:
Sun Aug 21, 2022 1:08 pm
joypog wrote:
Sun Aug 21, 2022 12:58 pm
Given the libertarian bent of this forum...and as we head into '24 silly season.

How well would the daughter of Dick Cheney do against the first president to incite a riot in the capital do on this forum?
About as well as Aaron Burr. 🤓
On 5th Avenue?
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Re: Trump reelection bid

Post by Kbg » Sun Aug 21, 2022 1:24 pm

Mountaineer wrote:
Sun Aug 21, 2022 1:08 pm
joypog wrote:
Sun Aug 21, 2022 12:58 pm
Given the libertarian bent of this forum...and as we head into '24 silly season.

How well would the daughter of Dick Cheney do against the first president to incite a riot in the capital do on this forum?
About as well as Aaron Burr. 🤓
I think it depends on how you define success. If the R party is stupid enough to nominate Trump again, he will lose all by himself again and probably take the senate and house down with him again. (Did I say again?) If a conservative oriented third party with anyone of national prominence were to run and split the vote, it’s a forgone conclusion.

Maybe I’m mirroring myself but I don’t think so…my sense is that a large number of Americans are done with D&R party wackadoos. They will continue to do well in non-competitive districts but where there is real competition, not so much.
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Re: Trump reelection bid

Post by Xan » Sun Aug 21, 2022 3:51 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Sun Aug 21, 2022 3:28 pm
Kbg wrote:
Sun Aug 21, 2022 1:24 pm
If the R party is stupid enough to nominate Trump again, he will lose all by himself again and probably take the senate and house down with him again.
I hope Trump doesn't run, but we all know he will. Regardless, name one Dem who you think could beat him, or DeSantis for that matter. They won't let Biden go again, Kamala is a laughing stock, Bernie is too old. AOC? She would get destroyed in the debates.

Kbg wrote:
Sun Aug 21, 2022 1:24 pm
Maybe I’m mirroring myself but I don’t think so…my sense is that a large number of Americans are done with D&R party wackadoos. They will continue to do well in non-competitive districts but where there is real competition, not so much.
This, I agree with. Both parties are reprehensible.
I really think any Dem would handily beat Trump at this point.

(This was edited: I originally said "lose to" which is the opposite of what I meant!)
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Re: Trump reelection bid

Post by joypog » Sun Aug 21, 2022 4:26 pm

Xan wrote:
Sun Aug 21, 2022 3:51 pm
(This was edited: I originally said "lose to" which is the opposite of what I meant!)
Trump would lean into the mistake and repeat it louder.

Biden's handlers would come in and clean up the mess 12 hours later.
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Re: Trump reelection bid

Post by doodle » Sun Aug 21, 2022 4:28 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Sun Aug 21, 2022 3:24 pm
doodle wrote:
Sun Aug 21, 2022 12:01 pm
I understand the fear some feel towards what is emanating from the left....but to me, this is a much greater fear currently

article-2684147-1F77DA7200000578-259_634x355.jpg
I'm much more concerned about the Left's war on free speech, identity politics, lack of due process, and fabricated hoaxes against their enemies. But that's just me and half the rest of the country, so you can probably ignore us.
The right wants to ignore due process all together...we had due process after election but a surprisingly large number refuse to accept it and worse openly flaunt their resistance to institutions of law and order.

The right is against mandatory vaccines (which I agree with) yet seems to think it's justified for them to control a woman's uterus and compel women who have been raped to bear their attackers child.

As far as free speech I agree but at the same time I also believe in freedom of religion and the rights insistence at inserting God into every arena of public life is inappropriate .
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Re: Trump reelection bid

Post by glennds » Sun Aug 21, 2022 4:51 pm

What's depressing is that no matter who the candidates are, it looks like it will be another negative voting election i.e. the majority of voters voting not for the candidate they love, but against the candidate they hate.
Hate based elections have become normal.
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Re: Trump reelection bid

Post by doodle » Sun Aug 21, 2022 5:16 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Sun Aug 21, 2022 4:42 pm
doodle wrote:
Sun Aug 21, 2022 4:28 pm


The right wants to ignore due process all together...we had due process after election but a surprisingly large number refuse to accept it and worse openly flaunt their resistance to institutions of law and order.
I'm talking about locking up Jan 6 epople without charging them or giving them a trial, and similarly in Canada Trudeau going after the Truckers as well as any citizen who donated to their cause.
doodle wrote:
Sun Aug 21, 2022 4:28 pm
The right is against mandatory vaccines (which I agree with) yet seems to think it's justified for them to control a woman's uterus and compel women who have been raped to bear their attackers child.
This argument would be more valid if the Left didn't also act hypocritically, expecting everyone to get vaccines while insisting "my body, my choice". But I acknowledge the universal hypocrisy. Abortion is more complex. Personally, I am pro-choice up to, say 3 months. After that, there is no reason to have that option. Whereas vaccines are all or nothing; there is no compromise position.
doodle wrote:
Sun Aug 21, 2022 4:28 pm
As far as free speech I agree but at the same time I also believe in freedom of religion and the rights insistence at inserting God into every arena of public life is inappropriate .
Agree 100%, adding that the insertion of CRT/DEI into every arena of public life is also inappropriate.
So basically we agree almost 100% on many issues yet find ourselves on opposite sides of the voting spectrum currently and maybe equally disgusted with our options...
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Re: Trump reelection bid

Post by dockinGA » Sun Aug 21, 2022 8:16 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Sun Aug 21, 2022 4:42 pm

I'm talking about locking up Jan 6 epople without charging them or giving them a trial,
I'm asking this question in all seriousness. Is there any proof that any of the insurrectionists have actually been locked up without due process?
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Re: Trump reelection bid

Post by dualstow » Sun Aug 21, 2022 8:34 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Sun Aug 21, 2022 3:28 pm
Kbg wrote:
Sun Aug 21, 2022 1:24 pm
If the R party is stupid enough to nominate Trump again, he will lose all by himself again and probably take the senate and house down with him again.
I hope Trump doesn't run, but we all know he will. Regardless, name one Dem who you think could beat him, or DeSantis for that matter. They won't let Biden go again, Kamala is a laughing stock, Bernie is too old. AOC? She would get destroyed in the debates.
AOC is still too young to run- well, she will be 35 by Nov 4, 2024. I don’t know if that qualifies her or if you have to be 35 just to campaign.
EDIT: at least one website says she is old enough because she turns 35 before Inauguration Day.
I think there are some Dems (not AOC) who could handily beat Trump. DeSantis, on the other hand, is going to be a contender.
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Re: Trump reelection bid

Post by Xan » Sun Aug 21, 2022 8:37 pm

dualstow wrote:
Sun Aug 21, 2022 8:34 pm
MangoMan wrote:
Sun Aug 21, 2022 3:28 pm
Kbg wrote:
Sun Aug 21, 2022 1:24 pm
If the R party is stupid enough to nominate Trump again, he will lose all by himself again and probably take the senate and house down with him again.
I hope Trump doesn't run, but we all know he will. Regardless, name one Dem who you think could beat him, or DeSantis for that matter. They won't let Biden go again, Kamala is a laughing stock, Bernie is too old. AOC? She would get destroyed in the debates.
AOC is still too young to run- well, she will be 35 by Nov 4, 2024. I don’t know if that qualifies her or if you have to be 35 just to campaign.
EDIT: at least one website says she is old enough.
I think there are some Dems (not AOC) who could handily beat Trump. DeSantis, on the other hand, is going to be a contender.

It's a qualification for office, not for campaigning, so you have to be 35 by Inauguration Day.

Tangent: we have lower age limits on these offices. What are everyone's thoughts on upper age limits? Or possibly some kind of cognitive test?
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Re: Trump reelection bid

Post by dualstow » Sun Aug 21, 2022 8:37 pm

Yep, I just looked it up and was editing my post.
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Re: Trump reelection bid

Post by vnatale » Sun Aug 21, 2022 8:41 pm

Mountaineer wrote:
Sun Aug 21, 2022 12:33 pm

My apologies in advance if this isn't a good thread to post this in.

May I suggest that you read "The Harbinger" by Jonathan Cahn if you have not. Fascinating read and so many connections of events. Very well written and entertaining even if you don't believe the events that prompted his story. It's been around for 10 years or so and was a best seller but I just read it yesterday.


Discovered that I have a copy of it. Will let you know what I think if it gets to be read by me at some point.
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