Good luck with the first from credible sources. I'll let the board judge who they are likely getting a more accurate reading of the situation from. At this point I'm pretty sure no matter what I say your response (with more words) is going to be: America bad, Russia good.stuper1 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 23, 2022 11:00 amKbg,
Here's my pushback, coming from someone who admittedly is a naive dummy regarding this stuff. You characterize it as 80/20 truth to lies. I'm sure I could spend hours and days researching and come up with plenty of sources that would suggest a different ratio maybe 40/60 or 30/70. When there's so much money at stake sloshing around in these wars the truth becomes very foggy.
You've written elsewhere that Americans are very naive about personal security. As I've said, I have no doubt I am very naive about it. So I have a serious, non-gotcha question for you. What difference does it make to American security if NATO stops at the western edge of Ukraine rather than the eastern edge? How are we going to be safer by having NATO in Ukraine? Russia made it clear that NATO in Ukraine was a red line that they would not allow to be crossed without repercussions. How did it make us safer to keep threatening to cross that line? As far as I can see, it made things less safe, where we are now at the hair-trigger to nuclear war. Would we be materially less safe if NATO had just stopped at the western edge of Ukraine, which by the way is hundreds of miles farther east than what was verbally promised to Russia at the end of the Cold War.
On the non-gotcha. I’ll reply with a gotcha. We did stop at the western edge of Ukraine and didn't allow Ukraine to joint NATO. (America bad) Last time I checked the Russians invaded Ukraine (Russia good). If you think that US involvement in training the Ukrainian military to defend itself (America bad) is equivalent to Russia invading (Russia good), well that’s a divide you and I shall never bridge.
You are not trying to be balanced or objective on this topic for whatever reasons. You know that, I know that.
America bad, Russia good. Ok, I think I have it down now. I'll try not to forget.