Page 1 of 1
What's the future for Conservatism?
Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2023 7:01 pm
by glennds
There was discussion in another thread about work ethic and general attitude of Millennials and Gen Z. This graphic comes from an article in Financial Times that talks about how convention has it that people in all age demographic cohorts tend to be more liberal in youth and shift toward conservatism as they get older. But for the first time this pattern seems to be breaking with Millennials, in both the US and the UK. Gen Z is too young to say for sure yet, but I would think if Millennials are breaking the trend, I can't see where Gen Z would go back to conservatism.
What would be interesting to me is to see how the pattern plays out geographically. Not sure if it would make a difference or not. That aside, the future for conservatism doesn't look that good based on this.
Re: What's the future for Conservatism?
Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2023 9:15 pm
by Smith1776
This finding, if true, doesn't surprise me.
The younger generation has found the economic deck to be stacked against them. There is less and less social mobility for them as housing, education, and the general cost of living has outpaced their earning power. The older generations, who possess most of the existing wealth, are seen as the "haves" to their "have nots."
When faced with the current economic environment, infighting ensues, and the have nots look to the government to equalize what they perceive as an unfair system. So, of course they will tend to lean more liberal than their parents or grandparents.
I don't blame millennials for being left leaning given those circumstances, although I don't know if it's actually in their best interests.
Re: What's the future for Conservatism?
Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2023 5:37 am
by boglerdude
Millions of immigrants willing to work harder. Automation taking more jobs.
Internet for entertainment. I quit science in 2005 because I could troll 4chan all day. Maybe it wasnt a coincidence, they started handing out loans to keep the nominal pie growing around then. So I was able to buy a couple rental properties with no income. Otherwise I'd still be living with parents.
Women and children are communist/collectivist/socialist, and when it no longer took technical skill to get online (2015) they now have out-sized political influence over social media and polls. And their husbands
And now they want
everyone in a burka.
Re: What's the future for Conservatism?
Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2023 9:12 am
by Maddy
Has there been a time in history when, in the course of a generation, a culture defined by moral relativism, lack personal responsibility and the glorification of degeneracy moves in the other direction? Or does it take the destruction of a civilization to bring about a social reset?
Re: What's the future for Conservatism?
Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2023 10:22 am
by DogBreath
boglerdude wrote: ↑Tue Jan 17, 2023 5:37 am
Millions of immigrants willing to work harder. Automation taking more jobs.
Yes, but the attitude is what causes the problem.
Good times make weak men. I blame Boomer and GenX parents for making things too easy on their children while simultaneously micro-managing their lives, leading to lack of ambition and lack of personal responsibility.
Yes, it's tough to compete with harder working immigrants who are hungry for the American Dream [insert whine]. Suck it up, Buttercup.
boglerdude wrote: ↑Tue Jan 17, 2023 5:37 am
And their husbands
Who are also now weak wussies.
Re: What's the future for Conservatism?
Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2023 1:51 pm
by vnatale
DogBreath wrote: ↑Tue Jan 17, 2023 10:22 am
I blame Boomer and GenX parents for making things too easy on their children while simultaneously micro-managing their lives, leading to lack of ambition and lack of personal responsibility.
You do or do not belong to one of those generation categories?
If so, how would you rate your parenting in those areas you criticized and how would you rate your children compared to the now adults (former children) being criticized in this topic?
Re: What's the future for Conservatism?
Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2023 2:28 pm
by Maddy
It's not only the parents. Today's "rubber room" culture makes sure that kids don't have any skin in the game. I honestly believe that many of them have no idea what it feels like to work hard at something--anything--and to reap the reward.
Re: What's the future for Conservatism?
Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2023 2:46 pm
by DogBreath
vnatale wrote: ↑Tue Jan 17, 2023 1:51 pm
DogBreath wrote: ↑Tue Jan 17, 2023 10:22 am
I blame Boomer and GenX parents for making things too easy on their children while simultaneously micro-managing their lives, leading to lack of ambition and lack of personal responsibility.
You do or do not belong to one of those generation categories?
If so, how would you rate your parenting in those areas you criticized and how would you rate your children compared to the now adults (former children) being criticized in this topic?
I am from the tail end of the Boomer generation. My children are in their 30s. We went out of our way to not coddle them and, thankfully, they are both very well adjusted and PRODUCTIVE members of society. Part of this is probably luck, but my ex-wife did an excellent job of parenting and I would like to think that I was a strong father figure.
Sadly, I can not say the same for many of the children of my friends and colleagues.
Re: What's the future for Conservatism?
Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2023 2:48 pm
by DogBreath
Maddy wrote: ↑Tue Jan 17, 2023 2:28 pm
It's not only the parents. Today's "rubber room" culture makes sure that kids don't have any skin in the game. I honestly believe that many of them have no idea what it feels like to work hard at something--anything--and to reap the reward.
But this again falls back on the parents
allowing their kids to be rubber roomed.
Re: What's the future for Conservatism?
Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2023 3:14 pm
by glennds
Maddy wrote: ↑Tue Jan 17, 2023 9:12 am
Has there been a time in history when, in the course of a generation, a culture defined by moral relativism, lack personal responsibility and the glorification of degeneracy moves in the other direction? Or does it take the destruction of a civilization to bring about a social reset?
I don't think it takes the destruction of civilization as such. You're describing some of the characteristics associated with the Roman Empire as it began to decline. It ultimately collapsed, and when it did, other powers (Ottomans and Russians) eventually stepped up to fill the vacuum.
It doesn't always go this way. I don't think the British Empire's displacement from dominance was self-imposed as much as it was outmatched by another rising power in the US.
But in the case of the US, it feels like a decline is imminent and it's partly, if not mostly self imposed. Even though people love to point to China. I'm not a believer that China can do nearly as much damage to the US as we can do to ourselves.
Re: What's the future for Conservatism?
Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2023 5:15 pm
by vnatale
glennds wrote: ↑Tue Jan 17, 2023 3:14 pm
Maddy wrote: ↑Tue Jan 17, 2023 9:12 am
Has there been a time in history when, in the course of a generation, a culture defined by moral relativism, lack personal responsibility and the glorification of degeneracy moves in the other direction? Or does it take the destruction of a civilization to bring about a social reset?
I don't think it takes the destruction of civilization as such. You're describing some of the characteristics associated with the Roman Empire as it began to decline. It ultimately collapsed, and when it did, other powers (Ottomans and Russians) eventually stepped up to fill the vacuum.
It doesn't always go this way. I don't think the British Empire's displacement from dominance was self-imposed as much as it was outmatched by another rising power in the US.
But in the case of the US, it feels like a decline is imminent and it's partly, if not mostly self imposed. Even though people love to point to China. I'm not a believer that China can do nearly as much damage to the US as we can do to ourselves.
One of our country's strengths is how many immigrants we have had.
All those people wanting to achieve the American Dream.
Re: What's the future for Conservatism?
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2023 12:49 pm
by glennds
vnatale wrote: ↑Tue Jan 17, 2023 5:15 pm
One of our country's strengths is how many immigrants we have had.
All those people wanting to achieve the American Dream.
Along those lines, one of my favorite non-tech immigrant stories in recent years is Chobani yogurt. A struggling Turkish immigrant takes over a sad, shuttered Kraft factory in Pennsylvania and turns it into a multi billion dollar enterprise with 2200 employees. It's very good yogurt too.
EDIT: I get the need for securing borders. But a broad based anti-immigrant policy like we saw initiated in the Trump years (not unwound by Biden either BTW) is just bad business.
If a legal channel exists and an immigrant can make a case for why they will pursue gainful employment, start a business, and most importantly pay taxes, that should be business we all want. Imagine shutting this Chobani guy out, or millions of other immigrant business owners, all employing workers and growing the tax base.
What should concern us is the natural born citizens strung out on opiods, addicted to video games, basically doing nothing productive with their lives while we have wage inflation due to a shortage of willing employees. The legal immigrants aren't the problem.
Re: What's the future for Conservatism?
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2023 6:15 pm
by vnatale
glennds wrote: ↑Thu Jan 19, 2023 12:49 pm
vnatale wrote: ↑Tue Jan 17, 2023 5:15 pm
One of our country's strengths is how many immigrants we have had.
All those people wanting to achieve the American Dream.
Along those lines, one of my favorite non-tech immigrant stories in recent years is Chobani yogurt. A struggling Turkish immigrant takes over a sad, shuttered Kraft factory in Pennsylvania and turns it into a multi billion dollar enterprise with 2200 employees. It's very good yogurt too.
EDIT: I get the need for securing borders. But a broad based anti-immigrant policy like we saw initiated in the Trump years (not unwound by Biden either BTW) is just bad business.
If a legal channel exists and an immigrant can make a case for why they will pursue gainful employment, start a business, and most importantly pay taxes, that should be business we all want. Imagine shutting this Chobani guy out, or millions of other immigrant business owners, all employing workers and growing the tax base.
What should concern us is the natural born citizens strung out on opiods, addicted to video games, basically doing nothing productive with their lives while we have wage inflation due to a shortage of willing employees. The legal immigrants aren't the problem.
EXTREMELY well stated!
Re: What's the future for Conservatism?
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2023 7:04 pm
by Dieter
Wage inflation?
still not keeping up with even official inflation, let alone real
Costs of housing, education, healthcare, etc, have been climbing faster than income for most for decades
I'm not surprised the younger generation is disillusioned
And others start their own businesses young, so, why put up with corporate BS?
If I could make big bucks on TikTok working lots fewer hours, hmmm...
Re: What's the future for Conservatism?
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2023 7:09 pm
by Dieter
As far as illegal immigrants, I've always wondered what percentage are hired by Republicans vs Democrats
I've always assumed Republican (more in agriculture and management, I assume)
So, just soundbite for most republican politicians.