Stock and ETF brokerage costs plunge

Discussion of the Stock portion of the Permanent Portfolio

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ochotona
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Re: Stock and ETF brokerage costs plunge

Post by ochotona » Sun Oct 13, 2019 4:15 pm

Will get cookies at branch
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Re: Stock and ETF brokerage costs plunge

Post by ochotona » Sun Oct 13, 2019 8:51 pm

Approved for Fidelity Visa card. Had to temporarily unfreeze my credit reports.
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Re: Stock and ETF brokerage costs plunge

Post by InsuranceGuy » Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:36 pm

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Re: Stock and ETF brokerage costs plunge

Post by ochotona » Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:12 am

I have a couple no foreign currency fee cards. Costco Visa and Capital One Venture.
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Re: Stock and ETF brokerage costs plunge

Post by sophie » Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:24 am

There's no card that does everything unfortunately...

My foreign travel card of choice is Capital One Visa - no fees, decent currency exchange rates, and 1.5% cash back. Be sure to always pay in local currency, because the deals you get for currency conversion at the cash register are typically poor.

Citi Double Cash is another 2% cash back card worth considering.
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Re: Stock and ETF brokerage costs plunge

Post by ochotona » Mon Oct 14, 2019 9:52 am

MangoMan wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:52 am
ochotona wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:12 am
I have a couple no foreign currency fee cards. Costco Visa and Capital One Venture.
Your Schwab ATM card also has no FTF.
My EDC will be Schwab debit for ATM, Fidelity Visa in the US, Capital One Visa or Costco Visa overseas... and Amex when I rent cars, they have a great flat-fee optional auto rental comp/collision policy, if you crack up a rental car, you walk away without dinging your regular insurance. It's primary, so your insurer need never know about it. It's not liability insurance, though, so if you have an at-fault accident, they'll know about it.
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ochotona
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Re: Stock and ETF brokerage costs plunge

Post by ochotona » Sun Oct 20, 2019 1:05 pm

Oh... I need to swap my IAU for AAAU. 7 basis point difference in fees. $20 difference annually for me in my Fidelity HSA. This new no-fee world is going to allow everyone to migrate to the best-of-breed ETFs.
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Re: Stock and ETF brokerage costs plunge

Post by Xan » Sun Oct 20, 2019 2:21 pm

ochotona wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 1:05 pm
Oh... I need to swap my IAU for AAAU. 7 basis point difference in fees. $20 difference annually for me in my Fidelity HSA. This new no-fee world is going to allow everyone to migrate to the best-of-breed ETFs.
Are they different enough to avoid a wash sale?
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Re: Stock and ETF brokerage costs plunge

Post by ochotona » Sun Oct 20, 2019 2:57 pm

Xan wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 2:21 pm
ochotona wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 1:05 pm
Oh... I need to swap my IAU for AAAU. 7 basis point difference in fees. $20 difference annually for me in my Fidelity HSA. This new no-fee world is going to allow everyone to migrate to the best-of-breed ETFs.
Are they different enough to avoid a wash sale?
I'm not claiming a tax loss.
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Re: Stock and ETF brokerage costs plunge

Post by ochotona » Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:19 pm

I don't have an opinion about AAAU v GLDM.
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Re: Stock and ETF brokerage costs plunge

Post by ochotona » Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:45 am

Devil in the Details... Fidelity won't let me create simultaneous MOC sell and buy orders, unless I have cash available to trade to cover the buy order. Oh my. This is a snag. I can do that at Schwab. I don't think I can migrate over to Fidelity with my large account. It's a show stopper.
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Re: Stock and ETF brokerage costs plunge

Post by ochotona » Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:17 am

ochotona wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:45 am
Devil in the Details... Fidelity won't let me create simultaneous MOC sell and buy orders, unless I have cash available to trade to cover the buy order. Oh my. This is a snag. I can do that at Schwab. I don't think I can migrate over to Fidelity with my large account. It's a show stopper.
Oh well I still am going to use the FIDELITY VISA card.
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Re: Stock and ETF brokerage costs plunge

Post by InsuranceGuy » Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:33 am

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Re: Stock and ETF brokerage costs plunge

Post by dualstow » Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:50 pm

ochotona wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:17 am
ochotona wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:45 am
Devil in the Details... Fidelity won't let me create simultaneous MOC sell and buy orders, unless I have cash available to trade to cover the buy order. Oh my. This is a snag. I can do that at Schwab. I don't think I can migrate over to Fidelity with my large account. It's a show stopper.
Oh well I still am going to use the Vanguard VISA card.
Vanguard has a Visa?
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Re: Stock and ETF brokerage costs plunge

Post by ochotona » Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:56 pm

InsuranceGuy wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:33 am
Are MOC that big of a deal? I could see if you bought stocks and you wanted to buy or sell at close in anticipation of an earnings move, but if you are trading ETFs why not just sell 30 minutes before close and then buy your new shared fast following?
I just don't want to be exposed to that whole "selling the customer's order flow" thing. That's just sleazy and creepy.

Very interesting, the Schwab rep just told me my IRA is NOT set up for margin trading, but I have placed a simultaneous MOC sell and buy order at Schwab, that was something definitely Fidelity could not do. With Fidelity, I'd have to wait until the next day to do the second leg of the trade. (bzzzzt) No good at all for the way I want to trade. When I get a momentum signal to move a large part of the portfolio, I want to do it in one go, get the exact closing price, not have my large order sold, not be exposed to bid-ask spread.

Sorry, FIDELITY Visa card.
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Re: Stock and ETF brokerage costs plunge

Post by dualstow » Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:39 pm

Ah. I have that card. Had it since it was an Amex. Not bad, that 2%.
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Re: Stock and ETF brokerage costs plunge

Post by InsuranceGuy » Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:59 pm

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Re: Stock and ETF brokerage costs plunge

Post by ochotona » Mon Oct 21, 2019 5:16 pm

I am known to obsess over small details.
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Re: Stock and ETF brokerage costs plunge

Post by InsuranceGuy » Mon Oct 21, 2019 5:17 pm

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Re: Stock and ETF brokerage costs plunge

Post by mathjak107 » Tue Oct 22, 2019 2:59 am

i have what is called a limited margin account at fidelity on my ira . Limited margin----------
Allows you to trade on unsettled funds and trade without triggering trading restrictions, such as good faith violations, in an IRA1
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Re: Stock and ETF brokerage costs plunge

Post by foglifter » Tue Oct 22, 2019 11:47 am

mathjak107 wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 2:59 am
i have what is called a limited margin account at fidelity on my ira . Limited margin----------
Allows you to trade on unsettled funds and trade without triggering trading restrictions, such as good faith violations, in an IRA1
From my experience FIdelity allows trading with unsettled funds in regular brokerage as well as IRA accounts, although the good faith rules are still enforced (sounds like this is the biggest difference you experience in your limited margin account). Be it a just-initiated deposit from the bank or proceeds from a sale I can place buy orders on the same day.
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Re: Stock and ETF brokerage costs plunge

Post by foglifter » Tue Oct 22, 2019 11:50 am

MangoMan wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:45 pm
Now what you can do at Fido is 'exchange' one mutual fund for another simultaneously and automatically always at the close. SInce they now have several ZERO expense ratio funds and plenty of super-low ER ones as well, maybe that would work better for you?
Yes, this is a neat feature at Fido. Just need to keep in mind that the "real" same-day exchange works only when both the old and new fund are Fidelity funds. Otherwise the buy order would be executed a day later.
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Re: Stock and ETF brokerage costs plunge

Post by mathjak107 » Tue Oct 22, 2019 12:02 pm

Keep in mind that the fidelity zero expense funds follow their own index not the standard ones like s&p or Wilshire. They would have to pay to use the standardized indexes so they created their own ...I own fzrox and it is pretty close
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Re: Stock and ETF brokerage costs plunge

Post by foglifter » Tue Oct 22, 2019 12:49 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 12:36 pm
foglifter wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 11:50 am
MangoMan wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:45 pm
Now what you can do at Fido is 'exchange' one mutual fund for another simultaneously and automatically always at the close. SInce they now have several ZERO expense ratio funds and plenty of super-low ER ones as well, maybe that would work better for you?
Yes, this is a neat feature at Fido. Just need to keep in mind that the "real" same-day exchange works only when both the old and new fund are Fidelity funds. Otherwise the buy order would be executed a day later.
I don't think that is accurate. If you place a buy order for a non-fidelity fund, you get the closing price that day. Why would an exchange be any different?
This is accurate. Here's an explanation from the Fidelity website:

When will this mutual fund be purchased?

When using the proceeds of the sale of a mutual fund to purchase another mutual fund, the purchase occurs on the settlement date of the sale as follows:

Mutual Funds in the Same Family
The settlement date for the sale is the same as the trade date. Therefore, the purchase takes place on the same date as the sale. On the sale and purchase of funds, you will receive the next available price.

Mutual Funds in Different Families
The settlement date for the sale is one business day later than the trade date. Therefore, the purchase takes place on the next business day following the sale. On the sale of your mutual funds, you will receive the next available price, and on the purchase of your mutual funds, you will receive the next business day's price.
This order first appears as a single order identifying both the sell and the buy. You can attempt to cancel the entire order before the sale executes. When the sell executes, the order will appear as a separate sell and buy order. After the sell order has executed, you can only attempt to cancel the buy order up until the buy order executes.

Some funds may not be eligible for either type of purchase due to longer settlement periods.
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Re: Stock and ETF brokerage costs plunge

Post by ochotona » Tue Oct 22, 2019 4:21 pm

I tried the mutual funds, then got a nastygram from Schwab for excessive trading in mutual funds. My momentum stuff does trade a few times per year, on average. Too many times for Schwab!

VERY INTERESTING TODAY... I sold some SCHX shares at Fidelity. I got dinged about 1/2 penny relative to the posted prices at the time. Then 15 sec before the close, I bought BIL (T-Bills ETF). I got dinged about 1/2 penny per share again relative to the closing price. I think it's the halfway point between bid and ask.. which were separated by a penny. They can be no closer than a penny, they can't be zero. They can be much yuuuger than a penny.

I am going to buy and sell, buy and sell BIL until I have satisfied my curiosity about trade friction. I'll do it at Fidelity, then at Schwab.

Why BIL? It's the least volatile ETF out there.
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