PP vs Dividend Growth Investing

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Re: PP vs Dividend Growth Investing

Post by vnatale » Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:27 pm

dualstow wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 1:29 pm
mathjak107 wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 12:05 pm
Actually photography was allowed with no flash. No video allowed
How can one even tell these days? Don't need a camcorder to record video.
True. A few years I was using my camera to take pictures of the band NRBQ. While I was doing so someone associated with the band came up to me and said no video allowed. I told him that I only do pictures, no video. He said that the way I was holding my camera looked like I was doing video (since I take A LOT of pictures, many times over 1,000 in a day, I'm oftentimes looking through my camera's viewfinder). I offered to show him what I'd taken but he let it go at that.

Vinny
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Re: PP vs Dividend Growth Investing

Post by vnatale » Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:28 pm

mathjak107 wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:11 pm
vnatale wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 9:56 am
Smith1776 wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 1:57 am
Not gonna lie. I had to Google Alvin Lee. I'm so out of the loop.
Try this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YB7qyn5MVs

This is what brought him to United States national music consciousness regarding Ten Years After and him.

And, when I was the college DJ, I'd always close my show with this exact recording ("I'm Going Home!")

Vinny
I Saw him at Woodstock and later on at The Fillmore ...
I would have loved to have been able to say the same!

Vinny
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Re: PP vs Dividend Growth Investing

Post by mathjak107 » Wed Feb 19, 2020 3:18 pm

So khc now has its bonds falling below investment grade and in to the junk bond index’s ......

That is a big problem..... not only will their costs of borrowing sky rocket while they owe 20 some odd billion dollars but now pension funds ,insurance companies and all institutions that can only own investment grade bonds must dump them ....that is going to really put pressure on the company ...but don’t worry , the dividend is still being paid. Ha ha ha
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Re: PP vs Dividend Growth Investing

Post by Xan » Wed Feb 19, 2020 3:25 pm

Mathjak, I don't know who you think you're laughing at, but nobody here said that all dividend payers are great investments. So you're patting yourself on the back (again) for being smarter than nobody. Congratulations!
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Re: PP vs Dividend Growth Investing

Post by Smith1776 » Wed Feb 19, 2020 3:29 pm

Mathjak, you've been shadow boxing against an invisible opponent for this entire thread. ???
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Re: PP vs Dividend Growth Investing

Post by Xan » Wed Feb 19, 2020 3:42 pm

Smith1776 wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 3:29 pm
Mathjak, you've been shadow boxing against an invisible opponent for this entire thread. ???
And continued even after the truce... We were talking no nicely about pizza and whatever else for a while too.
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Re: PP vs Dividend Growth Investing

Post by mathjak107 » Wed Feb 19, 2020 3:43 pm

I am used to shadow boxing alone , my wife baby sits a lot .....oh man she just finished a 10 day stint baby sitting ....the food was great , I was bringing in all kinds of stuff , the sex was about the same , maybe better , but the dishes were a tip off she wasn’t here .....I use paper for everything..I won’t dare eat off anything I wash until it is professionally cleaned.

The only way she would let me eat the rib platter I brought home was if they used Lipitor as a dry rub. Lol
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Re: PP vs Dividend Growth Investing

Post by mathjak107 » Wed Feb 19, 2020 3:51 pm

Anyway getting back to khc , this is something that I think is going to really magnify the next down turn .

More than half of all non govt debt is BBB ... that has been the sweet spot for bond investing...it pays the most yet it is still investment grade .

Well , if we have a slow down and credit ratings get down graded just one notch , all these funds ,insurers , pension funds and endowments that can only buy investment grade bonds will have to dump them .....there will be little buyers of junk in a recession and this my friends will be a huge problem for the credit markets and financing for all these companies who owe billions.

It will be like a stock getting bumped from an index and all the funds have to dump it killing the prices
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Re: PP vs Dividend Growth Investing

Post by Xan » Wed Feb 19, 2020 3:56 pm

mathjak107 wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 3:43 pm
I am used to shadow boxing alone , my wife baby sits a lot .....oh man she just finished a 10 day stint baby sitting ....the food was great , I was bringing in all kinds of stuff , the sex was about the same , maybe better , but the dishes were a tip off she wasn’t here .....I use paper for everything..I won’t dare eat off anything I wash until it is professionally cleaned.

The only way she would let me eat the rib platter I brought home was if they used Lipitor as a dry rub. Lol
Okay, now that was gold. Wow. Still laughing.
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Re: PP vs Dividend Growth Investing

Post by mathjak107 » Wed Feb 19, 2020 4:11 pm

You are forgetting I am a drummer , I thrive on music .... although when I do shows with the recording artists I am working with I do wear ear buds as things can get pretty loud .... I use the ear buds not only to protect my ears but I get a mix of things because on stage the delay coming back from some of these large venues can mix with what you hear on stage and the reflection confuses what you hear ....so I hear what everyone is doing without the venue echo coming back ....

Thankfully most venues have their own big house systems which are off stage ,so all the equipment the group uses on the stage is fairly small ...all that gets mixed through the house system and their monster system fills the house ...so on stage while my drums are loud. I have no issues with them ....but through the house system they rock
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Re: PP vs Dividend Growth Investing

Post by mathjak107 » Wed Feb 19, 2020 4:16 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 4:03 pm
Xan wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 3:56 pm
mathjak107 wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 3:43 pm
I am used to shadow boxing alone , my wife baby sits a lot .....oh man she just finished a 10 day stint baby sitting ....the food was great , I was bringing in all kinds of stuff , the sex was about the same , maybe better , but the dishes were a tip off she wasn’t here .....I use paper for everything..I won’t dare eat off anything I wash until it is professionally cleaned.

The only way she would let me eat the rib platter I brought home was if they used Lipitor as a dry rub. Lol
Okay, now that was gold. Wow. Still laughing.
Yep, that was hilarious.

As far as the concerts go, I can't believe anyone over 50 goes to those things anymore. My last concert was 2 years ago; we saw the Foo Fighters at Wrigley Field and afterwards I swore I would never go to another. We had earplugs and my ears were still ringing for days. I told the GF we could have simply sat in my backyard (40 miles form the stadium) and heard it just fine. $13 beers, 30 minute lines for the bathroom, and the seats were expensive, but thankfully not anywhere near $600. There was nothing fun about the experience. [/oldfart]
My grandson is 5 and his little league team was the cubs ...so he said he wanted to see the real cubs play ....well that is all my son and I needed to hear ...

We got plane tickets and the three of us were off to Chicago for steak and wriggly field ....it was my first trip there ...what a great stadium and the celebrating around the stadium was like nothing we have here in new york
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Re: PP vs Dividend Growth Investing

Post by mathjak107 » Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:21 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 4:58 pm
Ya, it's a great stadium. And a great fan base, particularly when you consider what a let-down the Cubs have been (except one season) over the last 100 years. Unlike Yankee Stadium or the Met's, Wrigley is in a really nice yuppie neighborhood with lots of bars and restaurants. It's party-central there even when the Cubs aren't playing.
My wife was so jealous of our trip I had to take her there a few months ago .....I love Chicago ....we stayed on the Gold Coast by I guess what is known as the viagra triangle as it is called ....we ate dinner at the Chicago cut ..I never thought a steak would cost more than we pay here in nyc
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Re: PP vs Dividend Growth Investing

Post by dualstow » Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:23 pm

I was laughing at your comment about jumping up and down at the train’s arrival to embarrass your wife. O0 I keep picturing it and smiling.

So, after a downgrade, everyone’s going to ditch junk bonds...and buy dividend stocks? :D
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Re: PP vs Dividend Growth Investing

Post by vnatale » Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:32 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 4:03 pm
Xan wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 3:56 pm
mathjak107 wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 3:43 pm
I am used to shadow boxing alone , my wife baby sits a lot .....oh man she just finished a 10 day stint baby sitting ....the food was great , I was bringing in all kinds of stuff , the sex was about the same , maybe better , but the dishes were a tip off she wasn’t here .....I use paper for everything..I won’t dare eat off anything I wash until it is professionally cleaned.

The only way she would let me eat the rib platter I brought home was if they used Lipitor as a dry rub. Lol
Okay, now that was gold. Wow. Still laughing.
Yep, that was hilarious.

As far as the concerts go, I can't believe anyone over 50 goes to those things anymore. My last concert was 2 years ago; we saw the Foo Fighters at Wrigley Field and afterwards I swore I would never go to another. We had earplugs and my ears were still ringing for days. I told the GF we could have simply sat in my backyard (40 miles form the stadium) and heard it just fine. $13 beers, 30 minute lines for the bathroom, and the seats were expensive, but thankfully not anywhere near $600. There was nothing fun about the experience. [/oldfart]
I go to a fair amount of music festivals -- great experience at great value. I can spend $100 for one with music Friday to Sunday. At least 35 hours of music being played on three different stages at once. Plus, other late, late night / early, early morning music.

Many of the bands are nationally known.

A few years ago I saw a country band in a tiny club. And, the guitarist had his Marshall amp turned up way, way, way too loud for a place that small. I left telling myself for times like that I needed to wear ear protection.

I tried to find something appropriate at Amazon but could not decide what was best. So I bought four or five different ones for about $70 total. Decided I did not want to put any more time into narrowing them down and my ears were certainly worth $70. The plan was I'd try out each pair and see which ones worked best.

I started with the cheapest ones -- about $13. And, I've not used any of the others since. They work great. Oftentimes I am right in front of the PA speakers while I'm taking pictures. I can definitely feel the sound on my body but when I take out those ear plugs I've never had a hint of ear ringing. Don't wear them all the time -- just when it is uncomfortably loud.

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: PP vs Dividend Growth Investing

Post by mathjak107 » Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:50 pm

Loudest group I ever was exposed to was BLUE CHEER.. walls of stacked Marshall’s at the Fillmore East
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Re: PP vs Dividend Growth Investing

Post by mathjak107 » Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:53 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:46 pm
Yep. We use Downbeats https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00A3Z44R2 $15 at Amazon, and I've been very happy with them.

The volume at that Foo Fighters concert was obscene.
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Re: PP vs Dividend Growth Investing

Post by mathjak107 » Wed Feb 19, 2020 6:14 pm

I agree ...... I love groups like Styx , Chicago , tower of power .....Brent carter lead singer of tower of power at the time did my sons wedding
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Re: PP vs Dividend Growth Investing

Post by dualstow » Wed Feb 19, 2020 6:19 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 6:09 pm
He is now the singer/guitar. Tyler Hawkins is way better on the drums. My GF loves the FF; I find them too screamy and loud except for a few songs. Not my preferred style of music.
I loved the first album. All Dave Grohl on all the instruments and nice melodies. Was disappointed in the mostly screamy 2nd and 3rd albums, but there are a few great songs in there, and subsequent albums.
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Re: PP vs Dividend Growth Investing

Post by vnatale » Wed Feb 19, 2020 6:38 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:46 pm
Yep. We use Downbeats https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00A3Z44R2 $15 at Amazon, and I've been very happy with them.

The volume at that Foo Fighters concert was obscene.
Yes, exactly the ones that I use!

I keep them in my camera case at all times since if I'm going to hear live music my camera will be with me.

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: PP vs Dividend Growth Investing

Post by vnatale » Wed Feb 19, 2020 6:40 pm

mathjak107 wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:50 pm
Loudest group I ever was exposed to was BLUE CHEER.. walls of stacked Marshall’s at the Fillmore East
I've never heard them live but have several of their records.

And, what you say underscores what I heard over 50 years ago. They were so loud when recording their first record that they had to record at Pier 6? I don't know what that is but it sounded impressive! And, you probably know what it means!

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: PP vs Dividend Growth Investing

Post by dualstow » Wed Feb 19, 2020 6:50 pm

vnatale wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 6:40 pm
mathjak107 wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:50 pm
Loudest group I ever was exposed to was BLUE CHEER.. walls of stacked Marshall’s at the Fillmore East
I've never heard them live but have several of their records.

And, what you say underscores what I heard over 50 years ago. They were so loud when recording their first record that they had to record at Pier 6? I don't know what that is but it sounded impressive! And, you probably know what it means!

Vinny
https://www.rollingstone.com/music/musi ... son-98540/
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Re: PP vs Dividend Growth Investing

Post by vnatale » Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:12 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:46 pm
Yep. We use Downbeats https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00A3Z44R2 $15 at Amazon, and I've been very happy with them.

The volume at that Foo Fighters concert was obscene.
These pictures illustrate my favorite locations to both take pictures and hear the music. I've been so spoiled by being so close to the music that I don't like either having an assigned seat or being far (more than 20 feet) away from the actual music. I want to see all the expressions on the faces of the musicians and, particularly, what the guitarists are doing with their hands. And, oftentimes being so close to them, they pose for me when they notice me taking their picture. Many of them have made my pictures their Facebook profile picture.

1) Sitting on the stage
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2) Leaning on the stage (top right)
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3) Taking a picture with elbows on the stage (that's me in the light blue, framed by the guitarist's legs)
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Capture2.JPG (71.72 KiB) Viewed 8892 times
4) Taking a picture of the guitarist of the all female band - Lez Zeppelin
Attachments
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Capture3.JPG (112.07 KiB) Viewed 8892 times
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: PP vs Dividend Growth Investing

Post by mathjak107 » Thu Feb 20, 2020 3:09 am

dualstow wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 6:50 pm
vnatale wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 6:40 pm
mathjak107 wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:50 pm
Loudest group I ever was exposed to was BLUE CHEER.. walls of stacked Marshall’s at the Fillmore East
I've never heard them live but have several of their records.

And, what you say underscores what I heard over 50 years ago. They were so loud when recording their first record that they had to record at Pier 6? I don't know what that is but it sounded impressive! And, you probably know what it means!

Vinny
https://www.rollingstone.com/music/musi ... son-98540/
they had a wave of sound that just assaulted your body ... in a smaller venue like the filmore they were just over powering .

today things are done very differently in the larger venues . stage equipment is smaller since everything gets mixed through the master board and uses the house system for the most part . even my drums go through the board . they sound so dynamic
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Re: PP vs Dividend Growth Investing

Post by Ad Orientem » Sat Feb 29, 2020 3:16 pm

A quick point on AT&T which was much discussed earlier in this longish thread. It was noted that they were widely regarded as a widows and orphans stock but eventually they too cut their dividend. However these are two different companies. The original company was American Telephone and Telegraph (abbreviated AT&T) also known as Ma Bell. That company however got broken up by Jimmy Carter. The modern AT&T is not the same business. The old AT&T was a true widows and orphans stock that never cut its dividend in the entire history of the business even during the Great Depression.

They had a unique investment model. Investors who bought the company stock, either when first issued or later on the open market where they would have paid market value, had the option of reinvesting the dividends which were initially pegged at 8% of the original stock price of $100/share. If you reinvested your dividend you did so directly through the company and no matter what the share price was on the stock exchange, new issued shares purchased via the company reinvestment program were always sold at par ($100/share). What that meant was that when you were reinvesting your dividends you were effectively buying something close to an 8% forever bond that generally could be resold on the open market for quite a bit more than par because there was such a demand to get in on the reinvestment scheme. It was a brilliantly successful scheme for the company which ensured a constant flow of revenue that they were using for expansion and R&D while providing happy investors with a steady stream of income that was widely regarded as only slightly riskier than US Treasury bonds.

In the early 1930's when the market had dropped near 90% from its 1929 record high, even AT&T took a bit of a hit. The market value of their shares was for the first time below the par dividend of 9%, yielding almost $11/share. (The company had raised their dividend to $9 in the 20's.) This meant that some people were not reinvesting their shares and there was widespread fear that AT&T would cut their dividend due to this and the effects of the depression. A lot of people were heavily dependent on that dividend to make ends meat during this dark period in history. The board of directors met and almost immediately resolved to stand by the dividend which required dipping into the corporate cash reserves. When they did that, the stock price shot back up and that was when AT&T gained its reputation as the ultimate widows and orphans stock.
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Re: PP vs Dividend Growth Investing

Post by mathjak107 » Sat Feb 29, 2020 6:08 pm

It has been a dog in modern day investing
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