Gumby wrote: ↑Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:59 amIt depends on what you want. If you know what price you want to pay for the bonds — and don't mind waiting for the market to hit that price — then use a limit order. If you just want the bonds now — and don't mind paying the market price — use a market order. With a market order, you are going to pay something close to the latest "Ask" price. However, with a limit order, you risk not getting the bonds at all if the market price rises from that point forward. I have also used market orders for Treasuries many times and never been disappointed. So, it really depends on what you want and how much you're willing to spend.foglifter wrote: A couple of questions came to my mind after reading your post:
1. Market order vs. limit order: does it really matter which type of order to use?
One easy way to decide is to look at the Bid/Ask spread. Since the Treasury market is very liquid, the Bid/Ask spread is almost always very tight. In other words, the bidder's price will almost always be extremely close to the asker's price. When you place a market order, you are basically saying that you're willing to take the "Ask" price, whatever it may be. With Treasuries, I don't think it really matters because of the liquidity and the spread is almost always going to be very tight.
Keep in mind that retail brokerages don't put you at the front of the line when limit trades happen. Most of these brokerage houses will usually only sell you something as a limit order if the price drops a few pennies below your bid price, because they will typically try to buy for a slight discount and then quickly sell it to you for the price you asked for. This is even true in full-service brokerage houses — and it's been a long-standing tradition on Wall Street. Remember, most people on Wall Street make most of their money through billions and billions of pennies that add up.
However, I would definitely recommend that you use a limit order when selling your bonds. That way you get the price that you want.
If you're unhappy with TLT, just sell it and buy 30 year Treasuries all at once. Your 20-30 year ladder will happen gradually over time as you rebalance into bonds over the years. The truth is that if taxes (and simplicity) weren't a factor you're PP might actually be better off rolling over 29 year Treasuries back into 30 year Treasuries each year. But, for the sake of our sanity, we just let a natural ladder happen on its own. There are some advantages to having a naturally occurring 20-30 year ladder in your pocket. For example, if you ever have a capital gain in another asset, like your Stocks, you might be able to sell a losing 23 year Treasury — take a capital loss, for tax loss harvesting — and roll it over to a new 30-year Treasury without any wash sale issues (since the durations are so different). Of course, that's just a futuristic hypothetical situation (since a seven-year-old 2034 Treasury should be doing pretty well right now).foglifter wrote:2. Is it better to use a ladder of bonds spreading the purchases in time or just sell all my EDV/TLT and buy bonds at once?
In terms of the actual bond, there is no difference whatsoever — since the bonds themselves are just electronic records in your account. Some brokerage houses will charge a fee to transact with the secondary market. But, at Fidelity, they are free either way. So, it makes no difference at Fidelity or Schwab. If you want the bonds immediately, just buy them on the secondary market.foglifter wrote:3. What is the difference between buying at the auction or secondary market?
If you happen to be just a day or two away from the regularly scheduled 30 year auction, you may want to participate in the auction just for fun. Just understand that you will be entering a "non-competitive" bid at the auction — which means that you are willing to pay the market price, for that bond, at the time of auction. If the auction isn't as highly over-subscribed as it usually is, you may get a nice little discount at the auction (maybe something like $999 per bond) — which is always fun. And the level of participation in the auction will typically affect the mood of the bond market. But, it's probably not worth waiting a week or two just to participate in the auction.
So, the secondary market is where all the trading action is. The auction is where the bonds are handed out to the public for trading and holding. After the auction is complete and the accounts are settled, most of those new bonds will be trading on the secondary market anyway — and that's why the Treasury market is so liquid.
Bottom line...if your brokerage house isn't going to charge you anything to participate in the secondary market, you'll have more control in the secondary market. And, of course, remember that you can only sell your bonds on the secondary market. The auction is really for those who want to have a little fun with it.
Absolutely PACKED with useful information!