Vanguard and Fidelity Treasury MM funds closed to new investors

[dualstow]

Definitely I can confirm that you can add or withdraw money to existing positions. It is an interesting question whether you can open that fund in a different account within the same brokerage, if you are already an investor. Probably worth a phone call since I imagine the online software wouldn't allow you to open a new position.
...

That's a good question. I've been holding onto the Treasury MM fund for over a decade and for the most part I only had a few thousand in there, nowhere near 50K.

I never tried to open up another instance of it in my Roth IRA.

[vnatale]

Definitely I can confirm that you can add or withdraw money to existing positions. It is an interesting question whether you can open that fund in a different account within the same brokerage, if you are already an investor. Probably worth a phone call since I imagine the online software wouldn't allow you to open a new position.
...

That's a good question. I've been holding onto the Treasury MM fund for over a decade and for the most part I only had a few thousand in there, nowhere near 50K.

I never tried to open up another instance of it in my Roth IRA.

Even though I had well over $50,000 in my taxable account with Vanguard and was in this money market fund, Vanguard was adamant that I was not even eligible to have the money market in a retirement account if I did not have the minimum $50,000 in that retirement account to put into it. I was not happy that Vanguard was not taking a total view perspective of the investor. Therefore I'm assuming that if that retirement account grows to more than $50,000 they are going to tell me the fund is closed to me.

Vinny

[dualstow]

Definitely I can confirm that you can add or withdraw money to existing positions. It is an interesting question whether you can open that fund in a different account within the same brokerage, if you are already an investor. Probably worth a phone call since I imagine the online software wouldn't allow you to open a new position.
...

Even though I had well over $50,000 in my taxable account with Vanguard and was in this money market fund, Vanguard was adamant that I was not even eligible to have the money market in a retirement account if I did not have the minimum $50,000 in that retirement account to put into it. I was not happy that Vanguard was not taking a total view perspective of the investor. Therefore I'm assuming that if that retirement account grows to more than $50,000 they are going to tell me the fund is closed to me.

Oh, I blew it! Vanguard explicitly told me, if some guy named Vinny comes calling, don't tell him about your second treasury mm fund. ;-)
(Let's call it TMMF for a minute).


Vinny, I didn't get what you were saying at first, but it sounded like you were saying the answer to Sophie's question is no. Kind of.
But, if you had the 50K in the account where you wanted a new instance of the TMMF, they would let you buy it because you're not a new investor, not a new holder of the TMMF.
So the answer is yes, kind of.
Do I have that right?

"So I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me..."

[vnatale]

Definitely I can confirm that you can add or withdraw money to existing positions. It is an interesting question whether you can open that fund in a different account within the same brokerage, if you are already an investor. Probably worth a phone call since I imagine the online software wouldn't allow you to open a new position.
...

Even though I had well over $50,000 in my taxable account with Vanguard and was in this money market fund, Vanguard was adamant that I was not even eligible to have the money market in a retirement account if I did not have the minimum $50,000 in that retirement account to put into it. I was not happy that Vanguard was not taking a total view perspective of the investor. Therefore I'm assuming that if that retirement account grows to more than $50,000 they are going to tell me the fund is closed to me.

Oh, I blew it! Vanguard explicitly told me, if some guy named Vinny comes calling, don't tell him about your second treasury mm fund. ;-)
(Let's call it TMMF for a minute).


Vinny, I didn't get what you were saying at first, but it sounded like you were saying the answer to Sophie's question is no. Kind of.
But, if you had the 50K in the account where you wanted a new instance of the TMMF, they would let you buy it because you're not a new investor, not a new holder of the TMMF.
So the answer is yes, kind of.
Do I have that right?

I'll use some examples and tell me if it does not answer the questions.

I have a taxable account of $125,000.

I have a retirement account with $40,000.

Both had been invested in the Prime Money Market Fund.

There was no problem exchanging the $125,000 to the Treasury Money Market Fund. I met the $50,000 minimum.

Now I also want to exchange the $40,000 also to that fund.


In the process of attempting to complete the transaction online I received a message I was not able to do this. Asked a representative about this. He confirmed that they do not take a whole view of you. It is account by account.

Therefore, even though in the above example I have $165,000 invested with Vanguard and $125,000 in that Treasury Money Market Fund they would not allow me open a another Treasury Market Fund in the retirement account. Therefore, I'm going to assume that if after I make some form of contribution to that Retirement account of $15,000 to bring it to $55,000 I'm now going to be told that that account is closed to new investors.

They take a narrow view of investor. Not the total investments you have with them. instead, the amounts you have invested with them in each separate account.

Vinny

[AdamA]

What's the old saw about cash being king? Read through this article to see the scale of the inflows they've been dealing with at Vanguard alone. Pretty breathtaking.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/vanguard ... 44970.html

I note that that last time Vanguard closed their Treasury MM fund it took them nearly 8 years to reopen it.

That's an interesting article. I never understood why these funds close when interest rates get low.