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Re: worst gold fund for 2019

Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:10 pm
by Xan
mathjak107 wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:37 am
If they see you doing it they will turn it over to authorities to find out why you are breaking your agreement and trying to hide cash and gold knowing it is forbidden .
In addition to dualstow's question of how, I'm wondering what authority would care about this, and exactly what the remedy would be other than "make the guy clear out his box and not rent it to him anymore", which the bank could do without the authorities.

Re: worst gold fund for 2019

Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:15 pm
by mathjak107
Chase is very clear ...
They are forbidding anything that is popular with money hiding or laundering .
They have a right to video or send an escort with you when you go to your box .

It is in your agreement that you give them permission to turn anything not permitted over to the proper authorities to look in to why you are trying to store and possibly hiding items not permitted .


In your contract for a box this is spelled out and you agree to it

Re: worst gold fund for 2019

Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:19 pm
by dualstow
Interesting. If my bank changes its policy to something like Chase's, I guess I'll have to pack it in.

Re: worst gold fund for 2019

Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:22 pm
by mathjak107
From the agreement you sign

You agree not to use the box to store money, coin or currency unless it is of a collectable nature, and you assume all risks and hold the Bank harmless of any loss or alleged loss of said money, coin or currency.
You further agree not to use the box for any dangerous or unlawful purpose or for anything that can be considered a nuisance. You agree that we may turn over to any law enforcement or other governmental agency any object, of yours, which we believe, in our sole discretion, to be prohibited by the terms of this lease and we will bear no liability for doing so. You forfeit all rights to any contents stored in the box that are not permitted by the terms of this lease. You hold us harmless of any loss or alleged loss or other liability for any actions we take, at our discretion, with respect to such prohibited contents.

Re: worst gold fund for 2019

Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:26 pm
by Xan
mathjak107 wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:22 pm
From the agreement you sign

You agree not to use the box to store money, coin or currency unless it is of a collectable nature, and you assume all risks and hold the Bank harmless of any loss or alleged loss of said money, coin or currency.
You further agree not to use the box for any dangerous or unlawful purpose or for anything that can be considered a nuisance. You agree that we may turn over to any law enforcement or other governmental agency any object, of yours, which we believe, in our sole discretion, to be prohibited by the terms of this lease and we will bear no liability for doing so. You forfeit all rights to any contents stored in the box that are not permitted by the terms of this lease. You hold us harmless of any loss or alleged loss or other liability for any actions we take, at our discretion, with respect to such prohibited contents.
Sheesh! Maybe it's from the agreement you sign, not me. That's a license to steal.

Re: worst gold fund for 2019

Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:30 pm
by mathjak107
I keep nothing in the box that i shouldnt so it’s a moot point

Re: worst gold fund for 2019

Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:59 pm
by dualstow
mathjak107 wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:30 pm
I keep nothing in the box that i shouldnt so it’s a moot point
I'm grateful that you told us, though, so I can avoid Chase.

I only keep a local brick & mortar bank for two reasons -
(1) Local checks // pretty much obsolete nowadays
(2) free* gold storage


*Yes, there's a minimum balance for that, but it's paltry. I keep more in there to pay bills anyway.

Re: worst gold fund for 2019

Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:16 pm
by mathjak107
the free boxes are way to small for all the stuff we have . so we have to pay quite a bit for a bigger box . there is such demand around here that there are long waits for bigger boxes .

keep in mind banks cover nothing in a box so make sure you have your own insurance . as many found out in sandy , even flood damage is not covered by the bank

Re: worst gold fund for 2019

Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:44 pm
by Xan
mathjak107 wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:30 pm
I keep nothing in the box that i shouldnt so it’s a moot point
Not sure it's entirely moot. They have a broad discretion to determine what's allowed and what isn't. What if they determine what you have in there isn't collectible enough?

Re: worst gold fund for 2019

Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:49 pm
by mathjak107
There really is nothing not approved . We have just like rings ,earrings and bracelets plus paper work we want off premise .

Our sister building next door had a five alarm fire that started on the roof a few years ago..the water damage and subsequent theft of jewelry from some of the apartments at some point while they were evacuated made us rethink some of the stuff we kept in the apartment

Re: worst gold fund for 2019

Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 4:31 pm
by dualstow
mathjak107 wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:16 pm
the free boxes are way to small for all the stuff we have . so we have to pay quite a bit for a bigger box . there is such demand around here that there are long waits for bigger boxes .

keep in mind banks cover nothing in a box so make sure you have your own insurance . as many found out in sandy , even flood damage is not covered by the bank
Here, too. Long wait for a big box. I started with the smallest. But, I’ve been with this branch since the 90s. Now I have the biggest. Plus, gold is compact. O0 I have a hard drive that I can always replace with a DVD 📀.

Insurance. Yes, Libertarian666 mentioned a company that I’d probably go with. But, if gold is my insurance, I don’t want to have to insure my insurance. Maybe I’ll change my mind if I ever buy “too many” ounces.

Re: worst gold fund for 2019

Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 4:44 pm
by Libertarian666
dualstow wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:59 pm
mathjak107 wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:30 pm
I keep nothing in the box that i shouldnt so it’s a moot point
I'm grateful that you told us, though, so I can avoid Chase.

I only keep a local brick & mortar bank for two reasons -
(1) Local checks // pretty much obsolete nowadays
(2) free* gold storage


*Yes, there's a minimum balance for that, but it's paltry. I keep more in there to pay bills anyway.
Your bank offers free gold storage? Wow, that's a great deal!

Re: worst gold fund for 2019

Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 4:56 pm
by dualstow
Libertarian666 wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 4:44 pm
Your bank offers free gold storage? Wow, that's a great deal!
In effect, yes. At some point, when they were trying to sell me various investments, they waived the box fee forever. That guy moved on to a different bank, and I reconfirmed with his replacement that there is still no fee. I wouldn’t mind paying; I just don’t want to be billed without knowing it, which might lead to my box being drilled and emptied. Hence the regular visits.

I just need to keep a few thousand in checking, and they leave me alone.

Re: worst gold fund for 2019

Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 5:22 pm
by stuper1
When you sell gold bullion, including gold coins, isn't it taxed as a "collectible"? Doesn't that offer a strong argument that gold coins kept in a safe deposit box are "collectible" items, which are allowed under the Chase agreement?

Re: worst gold fund for 2019

Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 5:25 pm
by Libertarian666
stuper1 wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 5:22 pm
When you sell gold bullion, including gold coins, isn't it taxed as a "collectible"? Doesn't that offer a strong argument that gold coins kept in a safe deposit box are "collectible" items, which are allowed under the Chase agreement?
I wouldn't count on it. As with the IRS, they are going to use whatever definition suits them in each case without worrying about logical consistency.

Re: worst gold fund for 2019

Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 5:49 pm
by mathjak107
stuper1 wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 5:22 pm
When you sell gold bullion, including gold coins, isn't it taxed as a "collectible"? Doesn't that offer a strong argument that gold coins kept in a safe deposit box are "collectible" items, which are allowed under the Chase agreement?
Nope ...how something is taxed has no bearing.. a tax category does not make something a collectible .

Re: worst gold fund for 2019

Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:08 pm
by dualstow
Put the coins in a stuffed animal, and then bring that to the bank.

Re: worst gold fund for 2019

Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 3:24 am
by mathjak107
a few coins are easy . but in my case 500k in gold is going to raise a few eyebrows ha ha ha

Re: worst gold fund for 2019

Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 5:10 am
by dualstow
mathjak107 wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 3:24 am
a few coins are easy . but in my case 500k in gold is going to raise a few eyebrows ha ha ha
Wow! That’s over 20 lbs of gold. Raised my eyebrows, anyway. :D

Re: worst gold fund for 2019

Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 7:37 am
by mathjak107
i don't bother with possession anymore ... not worth the trouble when it comes to shipping , selling , storage , and insurance .... i have guns , with those i can get anything else i need when the zombie attack happens .

Re: worst gold fund for 2019

Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 8:37 am
by Libertarian666
mathjak107 wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 7:37 am
i don't bother with possession anymore ... not worth the trouble when it comes to shipping , selling , storage , and insurance .... i have guns , with those i can get anything else i need when the zombie attack happens .
I'm not sure that is the best plan. It doesn't always work out well in the literature.

Re: worst gold fund for 2019

Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 12:09 pm
by dualstow
Shipping's free.

Re: worst gold fund for 2019

Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 4:12 pm
by ochotona
If you shoot someone and they sue you, you're going to lose your gold anyway

Re: worst gold fund for 2019

Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 4:29 pm
by mathjak107
ochotona wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 4:12 pm
If you shoot someone and they sue you, you're going to lose your gold anyway
In the proverbial zombie attack where you need your physical gold I wouldn’t worry about courts or law suits as we are talking anarchy or chaos

Re: worst gold fund for 2019

Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 9:28 pm
by Kbg
ROFL...Based on my reading of lots of history I totally do not agree with the HB take on the usefulness of gold as a practical form of exchange during a zombie apocalypse.

Let’s go with history that everyone knows: You are Jewish, living in Germany and it’s the 1930s. Make the case that gold was helpful. (I will concede it was if you had a lot of it in a foreign country and you had dual residency in the country you were holding it in...in 1928.) What was far more valuable was to have a govt official/friend who could get you the necessary exit papers.)

Other than that, you were screwed.