Safety Deposit Box Insurance

[Libertarian666]

Sincere thanks for all the replies with special thanks to Vnatale!
So, HB warned about storing your Gold with a Gold Dealer. He also talked about GoldMoney and he said no thanks to that to a caller on the Money Show.I believe that a Safety Deposit Box is the best bet for me
Oh, and my local bank does allow gold storage, or more specifically, they don't prohibit it. The Lady I talked to acted like I was asking to store radioactive plutonium in the box or something and had to 'get back with me'.
These People do not want you to own gold.

In my IRA SDA I think I will just own SGOL & maybe IAU for diversification purposes.

Just an idea, but does anyone just keep their PM in a box without insurance. I plan to work up to 15% in physical and the rest in the ETF's as stated. I guess the question is how safe is a 'Safe Deposit Box' anyhow?

Bottom line is that any Gold that isn't in your possession to the extent of at least having it in a safety deposit box, in a local bank, is Gold that maybe is just better off in an ETF IMHO. The whole point is to reduce any counterparty risk. Even keeping it in a SDB is at least some counterparty risk that we get a bank holiday, or that do to civil unrest, they close the bank. If it is in any recognized gold storage it would be easy pickings for any government intervention. All per HB, Craig & Tex AFAIK.
Again, being a newbie here, I don't want to come off as some kind of a know it all. I really appreciate the more experienced opinions here on a complicated issue. The rest of the PP is pretty simple and straightforward, but the Gold part really isn't these days since, alas, Swiss Bank Storage has now gone by the wayside, well, for any body except the Mitt Romney's et.al.

Not really true, depending on your definition of "Swiss Bank Storage". Global Gold stores your gold in the Zurich transit warehouse, which is about as safe as anywhere in the world.

Rates (first column of rates is for gold, platinum, and palladium; second is for silver):
Aggregated value of metals in Storage (CHF)
50'000 - 100'000 0.70% 1.30%
100'000 - 250'000 0.60% 1.10%
250'000 - 500'000 0.50% 0.90%
500'000 - 1'000'000 0.45% 0.80%
1'000'000 and more 0.40% 0.70%

[I Shrugged]

I have a few coins in a safe deposit box with no insurance. 10 ounces or so. Maybe enough to scrape our way to the border, and across. In the grand scheme I can afford the risk. At least I guess so based on my actions.

[boglerdude]

Relax. Keep a few coins on hand for bribes and 0-25% in AAAU. If you own your home thats part of your inflation protection.

[johnnywitt]

Relax. Keep a few coins on hand for bribes and 0-25% in AAAU. If you own your home thats part of your inflation protection.

Why AAAU instead of IAU & SGOL?

[PrimalToker]

Relax. Keep a few coins on hand for bribes and 0-25% in AAAU. If you own your home thats part of your inflation protection.

Why AAAU instead of IAU & SGOL?

AAAU is redeemable in physical gold and backed by the Perth Mint. They have a good reputation compared to who holds the gold in other ETFs.
https://aaauetf.com/

[johnnywitt]

Relax. Keep a few coins on hand for bribes and 0-25% in AAAU. If you own your home thats part of your inflation protection.

Why AAAU instead of IAU & SGOL?

AAAU is redeemable in physical gold and backed by the Perth Mint. They have a good reputation compared to who holds the gold in other ETFs.
https://aaauetf.com/

The Aussies, to my mind, are merely American Puppets beholden to the American Empire. They lost their taste for freedom a long time ago and one can see that they have a history of gold confiscation along with a punitive gold tax (repealed in 1947). They also still have Part IV of their Banking Act which further clouds my view of putting my Gold in their custody. I'm not putting down the Australian People here, but they pretty much don't have a free country anymore than we here in the "Land of the Free" do.
At least some of the Gold in SGOL is kept in Switzerland, which absolutely does have a history with not jacking with Peoples' Gold. I don't trust Australia any more than I trust Great Britain, the E U, or this utterly corrupt Country. After all, this is the reason to own Gold in the first place. I think Physical in an insured SDB is the way to go. Hard to execute for a lot of Folks though. So, they're forced to go into the ETF world. Who can possibly know which, if any, of the ETF's will survive? Maybe GLD will be the one, surprisingly, despite having HSBC as the Custodian. One just never knows what the future will bring.

[dopplerdave]

I do not trust safety deposit boxes. Banks occasionally close or remodel their branches and sometimes consolidate their boxes. There are horror stories elsewhere on this site about what has happened. Some years ago, I put my gold in a Wells Fargo branch and arranged for the annual fee to be paid from a Wells Fargo debit card linked to my bank account there. A couple years later I was unable to access my box because the fees were not paid. It turned out the card had been canceled after my wallet was stolen. It took them 2 weeks to sort things out before I could access my box. I have opened an account now with SWPCAYMAN and kept a small number of coins in it for about one year. (They can buy and sell for you as well as provide segregated storage). And they are insured by Lloyd's. So far I am very impressed, but I plan to pay them a visit as soon as Cayman opens again to visitors to see the facility and meet the people before moving my US gold there. (It is much cheaper to move via an armored service than to sell and repurchase). I would be very interested in knowing if anyone else has had experience with them.

[johnnywitt]

I do not trust safety deposit boxes. Banks occasionally close or remodel their branches and sometimes consolidate their boxes. There are horror stories elsewhere on this site about what has happened. Some years ago, I put my gold in a Wells Fargo branch and arranged for the annual fee to be paid from a Wells Fargo debit card linked to my bank account there. A couple years later I was unable to access my box because the fees were not paid. It turned out the card had been canceled after my wallet was stolen. It took them 2 weeks to sort things out before I could access my box. I have opened an account now with SWPCAYMAN and kept a small number of coins in it for about one year. (They can buy and sell for you as well as provide segregated storage). And they are insured by Lloyd's. So far I am very impressed, but I plan to pay them a visit as soon as Cayman opens again to visitors to see the facility and meet the people before moving my US gold there. (It is much cheaper to move via an armored service than to sell and repurchase). I would be very interested in knowing if anyone else has had experience with them.

That's why you need insurance!

[dopplerdave]

Their rate schedule is posted at https://swpcayman.com/storage/segregated. For gold it is 0.7% for <250K and 0.5% for more. $200 min per year.
Has anyone else used them?

[sophie]

SWP looks interesting.

Does anyone know what the FATCA reporting requirements are for an Active Non-Financial Foreign Entity such as this? For individuals, I mean. The business is not required to report to the US government - but individual account holders may have to do so.

[Xan]

SWP looks interesting.

Does anyone know what the FATCA reporting requirements are for an Active Non-Financial Foreign Entity such as this? For individuals, I mean. The business is not required to report to the US government - but individual account holders may have to do so.

And there are some extremely nasty penalties for failing to report foreign holdings. As in they're really not kidding around. You can accidentally commit a felony very easily. It makes me very leery of even considering something like that.

I'm sure that's part of the point. Well it's working!

[Libertarian666]

SWP looks interesting.

Does anyone know what the FATCA reporting requirements are for an Active Non-Financial Foreign Entity such as this? For individuals, I mean. The business is not required to report to the US government - but individual account holders may have to do so.

Good luck getting that information in a definitive form. I've tried, and so have the people at Global Gold, but there doesn't seem to be a definition of what counts and what doesn't.

I've filed the FATCA reports just to be on the safe side.

[boglerdude]

"Anecdotally speaking, HSBC begged me to accept a measly $60K worth of silver in place of the gold that they were being paid to hold for me around 08' when I called some in during the last financial crisis- which while bad had not nearly the debt the system has in it today.
It was instructive for me. If a giant bank like HSBC had to bother with my petty call in during the last crisis how bad will it be the next time around?(if were not already there/close)"

via https://mises.org/wire/whats-price-gold-it-depends

[FarmerD]

SWP looks interesting.

Does anyone know what the FATCA reporting requirements are for an Active Non-Financial Foreign Entity such as this? For individuals, I mean. The business is not required to report to the US government - but individual account holders may have to do so.

Good luck getting that information in a definitive form. I've tried, and so have the people at Global Gold, but there doesn't seem to be a definition of what counts and what doesn't.

I've filed the FATCA reports just to be on the safe side.

Quick FYI - Texas Precious Metals has partnered with SWP. Basically, buy gold with Texas PM and they will arrange storage with SWP.

Also, according their the Texas PM website:
SWP is a privately owned and operated provider of secure storage. It is classified as an Active Non-Financial Foreign Entity under the U.S.-Cayman Islands Model I Intergovernmental Agreement (“U.S. IGA”). As such, SWP is not subject to any U.S. FATCA registration or reporting.

It is our understanding that precious metals held directly outside the United States do not have to be reported by US taxpayers on form 8938 (Statement of Specified Foreign Financial Assets), nor on FinCEN Form 114 (Report of Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts). Learn more here. We do recommend our clients consult their tax advisors on this matter.

https://www.texmetals.com/store-gold-in-caymans

[FarmerD]

SWP looks interesting.

Does anyone know what the FATCA reporting requirements are for an Active Non-Financial Foreign Entity such as this? For individuals, I mean. The business is not required to report to the US government - but individual account holders may have to do so.

Good luck getting that information in a definitive form. I've tried, and so have the people at Global Gold, but there doesn't seem to be a definition of what counts and what doesn't.

I've filed the FATCA reports just to be on the safe side.

Libertarian666, I just sent you a PM on a related idea.

[vnatale]

I do not trust safety deposit boxes. Banks occasionally close or remodel their branches and sometimes consolidate their boxes. There are horror stories elsewhere on this site about what has happened. Some years ago, I put my gold in a Wells Fargo branch and arranged for the annual fee to be paid from a Wells Fargo debit card linked to my bank account there. A couple years later I was unable to access my box because the fees were not paid. It turned out the card had been canceled after my wallet was stolen. It took them 2 weeks to sort things out before I could access my box. I have opened an account now with SWPCAYMAN and kept a small number of coins in it for about one year. (They can buy and sell for you as well as provide segregated storage). And they are insured by Lloyd's. So far I am very impressed, but I plan to pay them a visit as soon as Cayman opens again to visitors to see the facility and meet the people before moving my US gold there. (It is much cheaper to move via an armored service than to sell and repurchase). I would be very interested in knowing if anyone else has had experience with them.

After watching this movie....

The Bank Job (2008)

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0200465/?ref_=ttls_li_tt

...in which Jason Statham and his crew totally wipe out a bank's safety deposit room.....I got quite nervous about using a bank's safety deposit box.

(Big) if something like this were to ever happen there is no way you'd be able to recover in any way what had been in your safety deposit box. How often has something like this ever happened in rea life?

But is it true that when a bank is shut down during that shut down time one does not have access to one's security deposit box?