welderwannabe wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 9:11 am
Thanks for both the positive and negative feedback on jmbullion. I'll check them out as well.
As said I've always done apmex but I think they're getting more expensive. They are 1% over spot higher than Gainesville coins even after factoring in Gainesville's shipping costs.
Any feedback on Gainesville? I've never used them.
When I was doing my exhaustive investigation of The Permanent Portfolio, I took extensive "notes" on what I found in this forum regarding various aspects of making the Permanent Portolio investment and then its subsequent management. Here is my section on physical gold vendors:
NOTE: 1. Sorry for the formatting. If you want it in a more readable form, contact me privately and I will send you a PDF.
2. ALL the words below come from what forum participants have said in various posts in various topics i the forum.
NOTES
AJPM
When you are looking to buy more, there are lots of good places that do business by mail. I have personally done business with
www.ajpm.com and had good experiences. (I have no connection to them other than being an occasional customer.)
I also use AJPM. Go to their website and watch for their web specials. I've done well with the specials and paid as little as 1% premium over spot.
Also AJPM. They are all business with good prices:
http://www.ajpm.com
AJPM
503-277-4653
BBB A
Shipping free for > 10 oz gold
7 d holding on checks
I've bought from AJPM, Goldmart, and Gainesville coins and the only bad experience I ever had was when it took Goldmart over 6 weeks to ship my order last year. Won't be transacting with them again.
A-Mark Precious Metals
- For the remainder, 1 oz American Eagles are a good choice. In addition to the usual suspects, try A-Mark Precious Metals - that's where Colorado Gold buys its coins, and presumably you can get a better price with them than you could at a retail broker.
APMEX
Received my APMEX order today and am very happy with the way they handled the shipment. Nowhere on the box or label is there any indication of the shipper or what contents may lie inside. This should be an obvious way to do things, but I was still worried that it might say APMEX right on the shipping label.
Apmex has always been good to me as well.
Your best protection against counterfeiting is to always buy from highly reputable dealers. From above I see you ordered from APMEX. They have been in business for a long time and have a stellar reputation. They tend to get a lot of their products directly from the respective mints and last I heard they check everything they acquire from other sources. On a scale of 1-5 I'd say your risk level here is 1. Ditto some of the other well known big dealers like Kitco. My dealings with APMEX have always been completely satisfactory and I have never heard anything untoward about them.
Apmex.com has treated me well and I use them almost exclusively now.
2.95% at APMEX buyback price, or 4.65% above spot bid, using cash/bank wire. 7% at buyback or 9.2% above spot bid using CC/Paypal. You need to be careful because sometimes certain categories have historically low premiums above spot that are a better deal, whether that be foreign bullion or pre-1933. Don't buy blindly; search for value. This is helpful:
http://www.goldprice.org/gold-prices/
I have only had good experiences from Apmex. Well, I had trouble selling my bitcoin for gold there and they apologized. "We're still figuring it out, too", they said. The most annoying part was when someone pasted a response to me addressing me in the third person, so I responded to him with a "he" as well. Minor technical point: I was never able to get into my Marc bitcoin wallet anyway! But that's already in the appropriate thread.
Border Gold
2.
www.bordergold.com
Bullion Direct
I've been happy with BullionDirect.com.
I think the premiums are a little more than what you might get at a local dealer, and there's also a shipping fee, but it's very convenient.
They'll store your gold for you, which can come in handy if you want to buy a few coins over time before you request delivery.
California Numismatic Investments
I'm going to recommend CNI, California Numismatic Investments, again. I've been buying from them for ten years and have had a great experience. I haven't been able to beat their prices either.
California Numismatic Investments
http://www.golddealer.com/
800-225-7531
BBB A
Free shipping
3 week holding on checks
There have been several threads in the past on this topic, but I'll state again that CNI has been very good.
I can also give a strong recommendation for CNI. I just finished my first gold purchase through the mail from them, and everything worked out well. I wanted Krugerrands, and my local dealer hardly ever has them. I called up CNI, locked in the price, and sent them a personal check. They said the coins would mail out two weeks after they received the check, and that is exactly what happened. The coins arrived in a non-descript, but very well packed, box. I believe shipping is free for purchases over $2k. I was a little put off by having to wait two weeks, but unless you want to pay about $30 for a bank transfer, that's what you have to do. Fortunately, I could watch the value of my coins going up during that two weeks, even though I didn't actually have them in my possession. The price is locked in on the first phone call.
Coin Galleries of Oyster Bay
I know someone who used Coin Galleries Of Oyster Bay. They've been around for 40 years and have multiple branches on Long Island. I have personally never used them but they might be worth a call.
Colorado Gold
I don't know if you have a specific dealer that you use and/or like, but ColoradoGold.com seems to pay more than most when selling to them if you also bought from them. As of today (6/20), they will sell 1 oz. American Eagles for $1,417.76 (if buying less than $25k) and will buy them for $1,377.70. That's a round trip spread of only 2.8%.
Colorado Gold
http://www.coloradogold.com/
888-442-0994
BBB A+
Shipping 1.5% (included in price, click button)
5 d holding on checks
I personally think gold is on sale, but whether I'm right or wrong, I'm buying as part of my regular contribution. Trying out Goldmart for the first time, as they definitely have the best price and I can't argue with free shipping. I used Gainesville coins and Colorado gold in the past, which were both great to deal with. The minimum purchase for Colorado Gold, though, means I won't be using them much unless I get a sudden windfall (most unlikely). I liked Gainesville because you pay a small portion on your credit card, and the 1% cash back covers part of the shipping costs. Just remember to set up the bank wire BEFORE you buy.
I buy physical from Colorado Gold - easy and low cost, but you have to buy at least 7 coins per order.
Dillon Gage
They don't buy or sell, so you have to get your own dealer for buying and selling and pay those fees too. I have a dealer account with Dillon Gage (
https://dillongage.com/) but I'm sure there are others you can use.
I think having physical gold coins or ingots stored in a commercial depository with a separation of custodian from administrator is probably the safest. 0.2% a year isn't that much if you consider it also includes record-keeping and other administrative expenses.
But don't you pay this same premium when you buy these coins? I don't see how, between the bid/ask spread and the markup yo can keep a round trip transaction to 1%.
The bid/asked spread IS the markup.
Let me give you an example.
Let's say that gold is at $1000/oz. and the dealer is buying Eagles at $1020 and selling them at $1030.
In that case, the "buy premium" is 2% and the "sell premium" is 3%.
It would cost you $10 (~1%) per coin to buy a coin and sell it back immediately.
Does that help?
Thanks, now I get what you are saying. However, my contention is that in actual practice, those numbers are much further apart.
So lets delve further: Can anyone open an account? Do they store or deliver the gold? If delivered, is there an additional charge? If stored, is there a storage fee? Are there any wrap fees or commissions? 'Private wealth clients' usually are the goal of every commissioned salesman.
Anyone can open an account, but you will need to do a lot of business with them to get this pricing. I don't know the exact amount, but it is probably on the order of 100 ounces (not each transaction, but in total over a reasonably short period of time). They have retail accounts too but I don't know the pricing on those.
As far as I know they don't store gold, but deliver it. However, they are involved with the Texas Bullion Depository project, so storage may be an option at some point.
I've only transacted with them over the counter, but they will ship. They may waive shipping for large orders.
There are no wrap fees or commissions.
After reviewing the fiztrade site, it is not really for retail clients.
So again, I ask how everyone here who wants to can have a round trip cost of 1%, which you implied is possible.
If I implied that everyone can have that, then that was an incorrect implication.
Gainesville Coins
I have been using
http://www.gainesvillecoins.com/ and it has been excellent.
Gainesville Coins
http://www.gainesvillecoins.com/
813-482-9300
BBB A+
Bank wires only
Shipping dependent on weight
I personally think gold is on sale, but whether I'm right or wrong, I'm buying as part of my regular contribution. Trying out Goldmart for the first time, as they definitely have the best price and I can't argue with free shipping. I used Gainesville coins and Colorado gold in the past, which were both great to deal with. The minimum purchase for Colorado Gold, though, means I won't be using them much unless I get a sudden windfall (most unlikely). I liked Gainesville because you pay a small portion on your credit card, and the 1% cash back covers part of the shipping costs. Just remember to set up the bank wire BEFORE you buy.
I've bought from AJPM, Goldmart, and Gainesville coins and the only bad experience I ever had was when it took Goldmart over 6 weeks to ship my order last year. Won't be transacting with them again.
I'll probably be buying from Gainesville coins from now on. They have some of the lowest prices but a lot of people think their shipping rates are too high. Doesn't bother me because they are about a 30 minute drive away and I can pick up in person. I place the order on their website and then send them a bankwire through Fidelity (which costs $0) and gets you the lowest price. They send me an email confirming the transaction after they receive the money in their account and then in about a week or so I get a call saying it's ready to pick up.
Global Gold
You might also want to check out "Global Gold", mentioned in the PP book written by the founders of this forum. They have buy/sell spreads of about 4% (for 100g bars) and costs in the neighborhood of 0.5%/year, depending on account size.
They buy physical gold for you and store it in ViaMat vaults. They're not a financial institution, but they are regulated by a Swiss regulatory body for "para-financials".
How about Global Gold? Yes, the expense ration is a bit painful (0.5% for reasonable amounts) but it solves the other problems, other than the obvious one of their turning out to be crooks, which I think is pretty unlikely.
They look interesting - at least at first glance similar to allocated storage at Perth Mint, but significantly cheaper (Perth's allocated storage is 1% per year). Perth Mint has been around longer and is government owned.
Have you considered globalgold? They have good customer service and the people I've dealt with all have excellent English (some native English-speakers) although they are a Swiss company.
Gold Dealer
http://www.golddealer.com/
Good prices, good service. I've bought and sold with them with no problems.
Goldmart
I've been very satisfied with GoldMart's pricing and customer service. Shipping is a bit slow if you buy less than 5k at a time though.
I second goldmart. I'd also say if you have a question to call them, not email or instant message because I never have gotten a response back from them. I'd have to see if it is lower than Tulving but it's been the lowest I could find (other than my local dealer).
+1 for Goldmart. Sent them a check, exactly 7 business days after receiving the check (as promised) they shipped my order by USPS (it was priority or express mail, I don't recall which one). I got an e-mail with the tracking number. Packaging was pretty g
Goldmart prices are quite competitive. I also like the reasonable check clearing period - 7 business days. Free shipping on orders of $7500+. I'm sure Goldmart's relocation from California to more business-friendly Nevada helped to keep the prices low.
It looks like the Gainsville prices are identical to GoldMart but cheaper shipping. So, I will try my next purchase at GoldMart.
Goldmart and Tulving are the two cheapest dealers anywhere. Texas Precious Metals is pretty good too. I've used all three and have no complaints though I probably give the nod to Goldmart since they don't have a minimum purchase requirement like Tulving.
Goldmart
http://www.goldmart.com/
800-470-0170
BBB A-
Free shipping >15k
7 d holding on checks
I personally think gold is on sale, but whether I'm right or wrong, I'm buying as part of my regular contribution. Trying out Goldmart for the first time, as they definitely have the best price and I can't argue with free shipping. I used Gainesville coins and Colorado gold in the past, which were both great to deal with. The minimum purchase for Colorado Gold, though, means I won't be using them much unless I get a sudden windfall (most unlikely). I liked Gainesville because you pay a small portion on your credit card, and the 1% cash back covers part of the shipping costs. Just remember to set up the bank wire BEFORE you buy.
I've bought from AJPM, Goldmart, and Gainesville coins and the only bad experience I ever had was when it took Goldmart over 6 weeks to ship my order last year. Won't be transacting with them again.
Goldmart was kinda slow with my last purchase there (nearly 3 weeks) so I tried Provident a month ago. Bought three times now from them and got 3 day turnaround each time. BTW they were selling Eagles for $39 over spot and Maples at 24 over spot at the time. Now eagles are going for $44 and Maples for $29 so those are still pretty good prices.
Goldstar Trust Co.
half of that in a Roth IRA with Goldstar Trust Co; the bullion is with Delaware Depository
I use GoldStar Trust (
https://www.goldstartrust.com). They have fees of 10 basis points for storage and another 10 basis points for account administration, with the latter capped at $275.
The only reason I'm thinking about trying JM Bullion is that, like Apmex, I can order online instead of on the phone and, unlike Apmex, I can have my order shipped via UPS. The post office ignored my paid sig request on a fountain pen, leaving it on my front step, so they can f__ right off as Ricky from Trailer Park Boys would say. Our UPS man is reliable.
JS Mine Set
https://www.jsmineset.com/2013/11/23/ji ... nge-sgpmx/
Kitco
Your best protection against counterfeiting is to always buy from highly reputable dealers. From above I see you ordered from APMEX. They have been in business for a long time and have a stellar reputation. They tend to get a lot of their products directly from the respective mints and last I heard they check everything they acquire from other sources. On a scale of 1-5 I'd say your risk level here is 1. Ditto some of the other well known big dealers like Kitco. My dealings with APMEX have always been completely satisfactory and I have never heard anything untoward about them.
I put in an order with Kitco on Monday and wired $ the same day. Coins were shipped Tuesday and arrived via UPS on Wednesday even though I didn't pay for expedited shipping. Ten coins at $1,312 each. Insurance was $52.48 & the wire fee was $30. Price above spot was $21 per coin. All included my price above spot was just under 2.2%. Pretty damn easy and the coins are all 2016 Eagles in great shape.
This is one of the "special offers" on their site for which - at least this is my understanding - one cannot specify a year on the coins.
I have to say I am pleasantly surprised (and that my wife is a little freaked out that I bought gold online). Open package, fondle, make note to dig a hole in the back yard when the ground thaws.