Will Someone Help Me Buy My First Gold Coin?

Discussion of the Gold portion of the Permanent Portfolio

Moderator: Global Moderator

User avatar
Tortoise
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 2751
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 2:35 am

Re: Will Someone Help Me Buy My First Gold Coin?

Post by Tortoise » Thu Nov 17, 2011 1:11 am

At two of my local coin dealers, Gold Eagles are currently selling at 4-5% above spot, and Krugs are selling at 3-4% above spot. The buy/sell spread for both is around 3-4%. From what I've seen, those are all pretty typical.

In early 2009 I was tracking the weekly premiums and buy/sell spreads on gold coins at my favorite local dealer (a reputable one). In April of that year, Gold Eagle premiums climbed as high as 9.2% over spot, but that was pretty unusual, and it dropped back down below 5% a couple of months later. For Krugs the premium peak was 6.4% then dropped below 3% a couple of months later. Interestingly, the buy/sell spreads for both Eagles and Krugs at that dealer stayed close to each other the entire time, varying within a fairly tight range of 3-4.5%.

So premiums over spot can vary quite a bit as supply and demand fluctuate, but what you'll notice is that the buy/sell spreads tend to remain fairly constant--often fixed--in dollar terms (e.g., $50 per coin) since the dealer just wants to focus on moving the merchandise and making a predictable profit on each transaction. When I'm buying, I just buy the lowest-premium coin the dealer is offering at the time and make sure the premium is in the same ballpark as at least one or two other reputable dealers.
Reub
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3158
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2011 5:44 pm

Re: Will Someone Help Me Buy My First Gold Coin?

Post by Reub » Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:01 am

Any opinion on purchasing Pre 1933 XF (Extra Fine) $20 Saint Gaudens ( Minted From 1907-1932)? I see that they are available on Tulving, 10 coin minimum.
User avatar
Ad Orientem
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3483
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2011 2:47 pm
Location: Florida USA
Contact:

Re: Will Someone Help Me Buy My First Gold Coin?

Post by Ad Orientem » Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:40 am

Reub wrote: Any opinion on purchasing Pre 1933 XF (Extra Fine) $20 Saint Gaudens ( Minted From 1907-1932)? I see that they are available on Tulving, 10 coin minimum.
If your buying a coin for the gold part of your PP here is the test, are you paying more than 5% over its melt value?  If so then it may (or may not) be a rare coin.  But in either case it is not an appropriate part of the PP.  I don't know what the value of the coins you are proposing to purchase is.  But if you are thinking of them as something you are collecting and might get attached to, or something you hope will gain in value independent of the price of gold, I would not go there.

On the other hand coin collecting can be a great hobby and even an interesting speculative investment.  But now we are talking variable portfolio or maybe even something that falls under the recreation part of your budget.  Bottom line; numismatics don't belong in the gold part of the PP.

On a side note, be careful.  Some less than honest gold dealers have been known to try and foist old coins on people looking to buy gold claiming that they are rare.  People are grossly overcharged for these coins which often have very little numismatic value.  Just because it's old does not make it exceptionally valuable.

Caveat Emptor
Trumpism is not a philosophy or a movement. It's a cult.
User avatar
AdamA
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 2336
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2011 8:49 pm

Re: Will Someone Help Me Buy My First Gold Coin?

Post by AdamA » Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:48 am

Ad Orientem wrote:
On a side note, be careful.  Some less than honest gold dealers have been known to try and foist old coins on people looking to buy gold claiming that they are rare.  People are grossly overcharged for these coins which often have very little numismatic value.  Just because it's old does not make it exceptionally valuable.

Caveat Emptor
Isn't Goldline in trouble for doing something like this? 


http://www.coinweek.com/bullion-report/ ... complaint/

According to an ABC News report, the consumer affairs division of the Santa Monica City Attorney’s office filed a complaint on November 1st alleging that Goldline “runs a bait and switch operation in which customers, seeking to invest in gold bullion, are switched to highly overpriced coins by using false and misleading claims.”?
"All men's miseries derive from not being able to sit in a quiet room alone."

Pascal
User avatar
Ad Orientem
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3483
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2011 2:47 pm
Location: Florida USA
Contact:

Re: Will Someone Help Me Buy My First Gold Coin?

Post by Ad Orientem » Sat Nov 19, 2011 1:14 pm

Isn't Goldline in trouble for doing something like this?
Yes.  They are hardly alone in the practice.  But they got caught and have garnered a lot of bad PR.  I've never done any business with them so I can't comment from personal experience.  Still, I have heard enough from people I respect to seriously question their business ethics.
Trumpism is not a philosophy or a movement. It's a cult.
User avatar
MediumTex
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 9096
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:47 pm
Contact:

Re: Will Someone Help Me Buy My First Gold Coin?

Post by MediumTex » Mon Nov 21, 2011 1:35 pm

Ad Orientem wrote:
Isn't Goldline in trouble for doing something like this?
Yes.  They are hardly alone in the practice.  But they got caught and have garnered a lot of bad PR.  I've never done any business with them so I can't comment from personal experience.  Still, I have heard enough from people I respect to seriously question their business ethics.
But Glenn Beck endorses Goldline.

How could someone Glenn Beck endorses not be a straight shooter?
Q: “Do you have funny shaped balloons?”
A: “Not unless round is funny.”
User avatar
Ad Orientem
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3483
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2011 2:47 pm
Location: Florida USA
Contact:

Re: Will Someone Help Me Buy My First Gold Coin?

Post by Ad Orientem » Mon Nov 21, 2011 1:53 pm

MediumTex wrote:
Ad Orientem wrote:
Isn't Goldline in trouble for doing something like this?
Yes.  They are hardly alone in the practice.  But they got caught and have garnered a lot of bad PR.  I've never done any business with them so I can't comment from personal experience.  Still, I have heard enough from people I respect to seriously question their business ethics.
But Glenn Beck endorses Goldline.

How could someone Glenn Beck endorses not be a straight shooter?
I really really hope that you just forgot the [sarc] tags.
Trumpism is not a philosophy or a movement. It's a cult.
Reub
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3158
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2011 5:44 pm

Re: Will Someone Help Me Buy My First Gold Coin?

Post by Reub » Fri Jan 20, 2012 1:31 pm

Just a follow-up. I purchased a 2012 one ounce gold Liberty Eagle coin on Dec. 29, 2011 from G-ldmart. They still have not sent it out. Is this a common practice?
Last edited by Reub on Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
MediumTex
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 9096
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:47 pm
Contact:

Re: Will Someone Help Me Buy My First Gold Coin?

Post by MediumTex » Fri Jan 20, 2012 1:34 pm

Reub wrote: Just a follow-up. I purchased a 2012 one ounce gold Liberty Eagle coin on Dec. 29, 2011 from Goldmart. They still have not sent it out. Is this a common practice?
How did you pay?

When were they supposed to send it out?

Have you contacted them?  What did they say?
Q: “Do you have funny shaped balloons?”
A: “Not unless round is funny.”
Reub
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3158
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2011 5:44 pm

Re: Will Someone Help Me Buy My First Gold Coin?

Post by Reub » Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:08 pm

10% via cc to lock in the price. The rest by check, which was cashed on 01/04/12. They say that they hold the check for 7 business days, which would take it to 01/13/12. So far 3 calls to them, where they said something along the lines of "Oh, let me check on your order. Yes, the shipment which contains your order has not come in as of yet, it should be in later in the week. We should be sending it out by Thursday. If you haven't been notified of it being shipped out to you by next week then please give us a call back."
User avatar
MediumTex
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 9096
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:47 pm
Contact:

Re: Will Someone Help Me Buy My First Gold Coin?

Post by MediumTex » Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:20 pm

Reub wrote: 10% via cc to lock in the price. The rest by check, which was cashed on 01/04/12. They say that they hold the check for 7 business days, which would take it to 01/13/12. So far 3 calls to them, where they said something along the lines of "Oh, let me check on your order. Yes, the shipment which contains your order has not come in as of yet, it should be in later in the week. We should be sending it out by Thursday. If you haven't been notified of it being shipped out to you by next week then please give us a call back."
I would just give it some time. 

It sounds like laziness more than anything else.
Q: “Do you have funny shaped balloons?”
A: “Not unless round is funny.”
User avatar
craigr
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 2540
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 9:26 pm

Re: Will Someone Help Me Buy My First Gold Coin?

Post by craigr » Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:23 am

Also AJPM. They are all business with good prices:

http://www.ajpm.com
User avatar
MachineGhost
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 10054
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 9:31 am

Re: Will Someone Help Me Buy My First Gold Coin?

Post by MachineGhost » Sat Jan 21, 2012 2:23 am

Most of the online dealers seem to take their sweet ass time (a week or two or three) in actually sending what you buy.  It sounds like from your conversation that they don't even stock inventory and are selling what they don't even have.  It makes me suspect they are playing the "float" some how to pump up their profits.

MG
Reub wrote: 10% via cc to lock in the price. The rest by check, which was cashed on 01/04/12. They say that they hold the check for 7 business days, which would take it to 01/13/12. So far 3 calls to them, where they said something along the lines of "Oh, let me check on your order. Yes, the shipment which contains your order has not come in as of yet, it should be in later in the week. We should be sending it out by Thursday. If you haven't been notified of it being shipped out to you by next week then please give us a call back."
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes

Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet.  I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
User avatar
BearBones
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 689
Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2010 4:26 pm

Re: Will Someone Help Me Buy My First Gold Coin?

Post by BearBones » Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:07 am

Here are my notes on gold dealers in alphabetic order. Most of these have been recommended on this site, Bogleheads, or elsewhere. I've weeded out those that consistently have higher prices. Would be curious if anyone has a reason why any of these companies should not be on list or why one company should be favored over the others (i.e., not just "I've had good experience with X").

AJPM
http://www.ajpm.com/
503-277-4653
BBB A
Shipping free for > 10 oz gold
7 d holding on checks

California Numismatic Investments
http://www.golddealer.com/
800-225-7531
BBB A
Free shipping
3 week holding on checks

Colorado Gold
http://www.coloradogold.com/
888-442-0994
BBB A+
Shipping 1.5% (included in price, click button)
5 d holding on checks

Gainesville Coins
http://www.gainesvillecoins.com/
813-482-9300
BBB A+
Bank wires only
Shipping dependent on weight

Goldmart
http://www.goldmart.com/
800-470-0170
BBB A-
Free shipping >15k
7 d holding on checks

Tulving
http://tulving.com/
800-995-1708
BBB A+
Min order gold 20oz
FarmerD
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 458
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2011 10:37 pm

Re: Will Someone Help Me Buy My First Gold Coin?

Post by FarmerD » Sun Jan 22, 2012 9:57 pm

BearBones,
Good list.  May want to add Texas Precious Metals and Provident to your list.  

 
Last edited by FarmerD on Mon Jan 23, 2012 6:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
vnatale
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 9423
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:56 pm
Location: Massachusetts
Contact:

Re: Will Someone Help Me Buy My First Gold Coin?

Post by vnatale » Mon Feb 24, 2020 8:33 pm

BearBones wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:07 am
Here are my notes on gold dealers in alphabetic order. Most of these have been recommended on this site, Bogleheads, or elsewhere. I've weeded out those that consistently have higher prices. Would be curious if anyone has a reason why any of these companies should not be on list or why one company should be favored over the others (i.e., not just "I've had good experience with X").

AJPM
http://www.ajpm.com/
503-277-4653
BBB A
Shipping free for > 10 oz gold
7 d holding on checks

California Numismatic Investments
http://www.golddealer.com/
800-225-7531
BBB A
Free shipping
3 week holding on checks

Colorado Gold
http://www.coloradogold.com/
888-442-0994
BBB A+
Shipping 1.5% (included in price, click button)
5 d holding on checks

Gainesville Coins
http://www.gainesvillecoins.com/
813-482-9300
BBB A+
Bank wires only
Shipping dependent on weight

Goldmart
http://www.goldmart.com/
800-470-0170
BBB A-
Free shipping >15k
7 d holding on checks

Tulving
http://tulving.com/
800-995-1708
BBB A+
Min order gold 20oz

Now 8 years later would you be adding or subtracting any from this list?

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
ppnewbie
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 850
Joined: Fri May 03, 2019 6:04 pm

Re: Will Someone Help Me Buy My First Gold Coin?

Post by ppnewbie » Wed Feb 26, 2020 9:54 am

Just throwing my 2 cents. I keep it simple - 1 ounce buffaloe or eagle proofs - 60 to 75 over spot from my local shop. It was scary at first but I’ve made a new good friends in the process.
User avatar
dualstow
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 14232
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:18 am
Location: synagogue of Satan
Contact:

Re: Will Someone Help Me Buy My First Gold Coin?

Post by dualstow » Wed Feb 26, 2020 12:24 pm

vnatale wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 8:33 pm
BearBones wrote:
Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:07 am
...
would you be adding or subtracting any from this list?
See here
https://www.justice.gov/usao-wdnc/pr/fe ... uding-over

Additionally, before this even happened, I remember emailing the guy and he answered rudely that I would have to use the phone- not to order, which would be understandable, but even to contact him. Made me wonder why he had posted an email address. So, I didn't use him.
Last edited by dualstow on Wed Feb 26, 2020 12:28 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years
User avatar
dualstow
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 14232
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:18 am
Location: synagogue of Satan
Contact:

Re: Will Someone Help Me Buy My First Gold Coin?

Post by dualstow » Wed Feb 26, 2020 12:25 pm

ppnewbie wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 9:54 am
Just throwing my 2 cents. I keep it simple - 1 ounce buffaloe or eagle proofs - 60 to 75 over spot from my local shop. It was scary at first but I’ve made a new good friends in the process.
I don't think proof coins are bullion exactly, are they?
https://westhillscapital.com/2018/06/25 ... no-debate/
Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years
ppnewbie
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 850
Joined: Fri May 03, 2019 6:04 pm

Re: Will Someone Help Me Buy My First Gold Coin?

Post by ppnewbie » Wed Feb 26, 2020 2:50 pm

great article. My local shop sells them to me only $60 over spot. And....they are so pretty ;) Actually I really just want the gold but figure it will be easier to sell if it is a proof and has a certificate of authenticity included. So basically for the same price I’m getting a proof.

But if there was a premium - bullion would be fine.
User avatar
dualstow
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 14232
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:18 am
Location: synagogue of Satan
Contact:

Re: Will Someone Help Me Buy My First Gold Coin?

Post by dualstow » Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:57 pm

Hmm, I've never tried to sell proof coins but if you're just starting out and you plan to buy a bunch of coins, even if it's over time, you might want to explore further.
Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years
User avatar
vnatale
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 9423
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:56 pm
Location: Massachusetts
Contact:

Re: Will Someone Help Me Buy My First Gold Coin?

Post by vnatale » Fri Aug 20, 2021 5:23 pm

Tortoise wrote:
Thu Nov 17, 2011 1:11 am

At two of my local coin dealers, Gold Eagles are currently selling at 4-5% above spot, and Krugs are selling at 3-4% above spot. The buy/sell spread for both is around 3-4%. From what I've seen, those are all pretty typical.

In early 2009 I was tracking the weekly premiums and buy/sell spreads on gold coins at my favorite local dealer (a reputable one). In April of that year, Gold Eagle premiums climbed as high as 9.2% over spot, but that was pretty unusual, and it dropped back down below 5% a couple of months later. For Krugs the premium peak was 6.4% then dropped below 3% a couple of months later. Interestingly, the buy/sell spreads for both Eagles and Krugs at that dealer stayed close to each other the entire time, varying within a fairly tight range of 3-4.5%.

So premiums over spot can vary quite a bit as supply and demand fluctuate, but what you'll notice is that the buy/sell spreads tend to remain fairly constant--often fixed--in dollar terms (e.g., $50 per coin) since the dealer just wants to focus on moving the merchandise and making a predictable profit on each transaction. When I'm buying, I just buy the lowest-premium coin the dealer is offering at the time and make sure the premium is in the same ballpark as at least one or two other reputable dealers.


Have you ever done such a thing since?
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
User avatar
Tortoise
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 2751
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 2:35 am

Re: Will Someone Help Me Buy My First Gold Coin?

Post by Tortoise » Fri Aug 20, 2021 6:13 pm

For premiums, yes, but not for buy/sell spreads since the local dealers I usually use list only their sell prices on their web sites (not the sell and buy prices).

I've tracked gold eagle and krug premiums since February of this year when they were unusually high, and they've steadily dropped by about 2-3% since then.

I did find another local dealer whose web site lists both buy and sell prices, and it looks like the current spread for gold eagles and krugs is 5.3% and 5.2%, respectively. So their spreads are very close, even though their premiums are a bit different (6.7% for the eagles and 5.3% for the krugs).

I guess that's roughly consistent with what I observed 10 years ago, i.e., when you compare gold eagles and krugs, their buy/sell spreads are roughly the same even if their premiums aren't.
User avatar
vnatale
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 9423
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:56 pm
Location: Massachusetts
Contact:

Re: Will Someone Help Me Buy My First Gold Coin?

Post by vnatale » Fri Aug 20, 2021 6:17 pm

Tortoise wrote:
Fri Aug 20, 2021 6:13 pm

For premiums, yes, but not for buy/sell spreads since the local dealers I usually use list only their sell prices on their web sites (not the sell and buy prices).

I've tracked gold eagle and krug premiums since February of this year when they were unusually high, and they've steadily dropped by about 2-3% since then.

I did find another local dealer whose web site lists both buy and sell prices, and it looks like the current spread for gold eagles and krugs is 5.3% and 5.2%, respectively. So their spreads are very close, even though their premiums are a bit different (6.7% for the eagles and 5.3% for the krugs).

I guess that's roughly consistent with what I observed 10 years ago, i.e., when you compare gold eagles and krugs, their buy/sell spreads are roughly the same even if their premiums aren't.


Thanks. I've probably already read it in my notes....but I take it you only buy in person and not through the mail?

I checked at some point last year and I do not believe I have any dealers in my local area. Or, at least that are of any size to make you think that they are going to be around tomorrow so that you can trust them today.
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
User avatar
dualstow
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 14232
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:18 am
Location: synagogue of Satan
Contact:

Re: Will Someone Help Me Buy My First Gold Coin?

Post by dualstow » Fri Aug 20, 2021 6:27 pm

Vinny wrote:
I checked at some point last year and I do not believe I have any dealers in my local area. Or, at least that are of any size to make you think that they are going to be around tomorrow so that you can trust them today.
I don’t know how far they are from you, Vinny, but for a while I used Rare Coins of New Hampshire (by mail). They were great, although the employee I dealt with is gone, so I don’t know how they are these days.
Paste this into google maps or google, not bing

Code: Select all

R7RW+J8 Milford, New Hampshire
I’m not even getting all my mail, so I do worry about coin shipments O0 but so far, nothing has been lost.
Sam Bankman-Fried sentenced to 25 years
Post Reply