GTU

Discussion of the Gold portion of the Permanent Portfolio

Moderator: Global Moderator

ngcpa
Full Member
Full Member
Posts: 84
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:25 pm

GTU

Post by ngcpa » Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:30 am

GTU is currently selling at a 4.6% discount to NAV!
Peak2Trough
Full Member
Full Member
Posts: 93
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2012 2:23 pm

Re: GTU

Post by Peak2Trough » Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:43 am

Shhhhhh!  :P
User avatar
MediumTex
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 9096
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:47 pm
Contact:

Re: GTU

Post by MediumTex » Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:40 am

It wouldn't be a crazy thing to transition from GLD or IAU to GTU during this period.
Q: “Do you have funny shaped balloons?”
A: “Not unless round is funny.”
Reub
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3158
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2011 5:44 pm

Re: GTU

Post by Reub » Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:13 pm

As usual, I followed your sage advice, M.T.
User avatar
Pointedstick
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 8864
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:21 pm
Contact:

Re: GTU

Post by Pointedstick » Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:27 pm

Yep, me too. A deal like that is too awesome to pass up. I remember when GTU was trading at a 7% premium.
Human behavior is economic behavior. The particulars may vary, but competition for limited resources remains a constant.
- CEO Nwabudike Morgan
User avatar
MediumTex
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 9096
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:47 pm
Contact:

Re: GTU

Post by MediumTex » Mon Apr 15, 2013 3:21 pm

MangoMan wrote: I forget...is there any restriction against holding a PFIC like GTU in an IRA?
Not to my knowledge.

If someone knows something different, please chime in.
Q: “Do you have funny shaped balloons?”
A: “Not unless round is funny.”
User avatar
Pointedstick
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 8864
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:21 pm
Contact:

Re: GTU

Post by Pointedstick » Mon Apr 15, 2013 3:47 pm

I just did it in a 401k without drama.
Human behavior is economic behavior. The particulars may vary, but competition for limited resources remains a constant.
- CEO Nwabudike Morgan
User avatar
AdamA
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 2336
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2011 8:49 pm

Re: GTU

Post by AdamA » Mon Apr 15, 2013 3:57 pm

I own it in a Roth IRA, and I haven't any issues.  My accountant says it's fine...
"All men's miseries derive from not being able to sit in a quiet room alone."

Pascal
User avatar
BearBones
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 689
Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2010 4:26 pm

Re: GTU

Post by BearBones » Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:40 pm

In taxable accounts, it's time to sell some physical for a tax loss harvest, buy GTU, then exchange back after 30 days and after GTU discount decreases. A win-win.

Edit: Or maybe more appropriately, a lose-win-win.  :P
Last edited by BearBones on Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
MachineGhost
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 10054
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 9:31 am

Re: GTU

Post by MachineGhost » Mon Apr 15, 2013 7:16 pm

BearBones wrote: In taxable accounts, it's time to sell some physical for a tax loss harvest, buy GTU, then exchange back after 30 days and after GTU discount decreases. A win-win.
The current discount is unlikely to cover the premium and transaction costs for both selling and rebuying physical.  There's a lot of built-in costs that take a long time to overcome. :(
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes

Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet.  I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
User avatar
Greg
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1126
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 6:12 pm
Location: Maryland

Re: GTU

Post by Greg » Mon Apr 15, 2013 7:40 pm

MachineGhost wrote:
BearBones wrote: In taxable accounts, it's time to sell some physical for a tax loss harvest, buy GTU, then exchange back after 30 days and after GTU discount decreases. A win-win.
The current discount is unlikely to cover the premium and transaction costs for both selling and rebuying physical.  There's a lot of built-in costs that take a long time to overcome. :(
Although not a bad time then to sell IAU for the tax-harvest loss for GTU. Nice that these are technically different so you don't have to worry as much about the wash sale rule. Sucks for TurboTax you have to paper file though since they don't offer the form yet. :(
Background: Mechanical Engineering, Robotics, Control Systems, CAD Modeling, Machining, Wearable Exoskeletons, Applied Physiology, Drawing (Pencil/Charcoal), Drums, Guitar/Bass, Piano, Flute

"you are not disabled by your disabilities but rather, abled by your abilities." -Oscar Pistorius
User avatar
Ad Orientem
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3483
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2011 2:47 pm
Location: Florida USA
Contact:

Re: GTU

Post by Ad Orientem » Tue Apr 16, 2013 4:25 pm

What is the ER on GTU?
Trumpism is not a philosophy or a movement. It's a cult.
User avatar
MediumTex
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 9096
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:47 pm
Contact:

Re: GTU

Post by MediumTex » Tue Apr 16, 2013 4:28 pm

Ad Orientem wrote: What is the ER on GTU?
I don't recall, but it's very low. 

In the same ballpark as GLD and IAU.
Q: “Do you have funny shaped balloons?”
A: “Not unless round is funny.”
User avatar
Ad Orientem
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3483
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2011 2:47 pm
Location: Florida USA
Contact:

Re: GTU

Post by Ad Orientem » Tue Apr 16, 2013 4:49 pm

MediumTex wrote:
Ad Orientem wrote: What is the ER on GTU?
I don't recall, but it's very low. 

In the same ballpark as GLD and IAU.
IAU is pretty reasonable but I think GLD is a bit pricey for an indexed fund.
Trumpism is not a philosophy or a movement. It's a cult.
ngcpa
Full Member
Full Member
Posts: 84
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:25 pm

Re: GTU

Post by ngcpa » Tue Apr 16, 2013 5:02 pm

What is the ER on GTU?
GTU  .36
IAU  .25
GLD  .40
User avatar
Pointedstick
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 8864
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:21 pm
Contact:

Re: GTU

Post by Pointedstick » Tue Apr 16, 2013 5:04 pm

It's 0.4% I believe.
Human behavior is economic behavior. The particulars may vary, but competition for limited resources remains a constant.
- CEO Nwabudike Morgan
stuper1
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1365
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 7:18 pm

Re: GTU

Post by stuper1 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 5:54 pm

I seem to recall reading somewhere that GTU didn't perform as well at tracking actual gold prices as PHYS, which is another closed-end fund with holdings in Canada.  Does anyone know anything about this?
User avatar
Pointedstick
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 8864
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:21 pm
Contact:

Re: GTU

Post by Pointedstick » Tue Apr 16, 2013 6:43 pm

It's good enough IMHO:

[align=center]Image[/align]

Besides, those times when the lines diverge are great arbitrage opportunities!  ;D
Last edited by Pointedstick on Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Human behavior is economic behavior. The particulars may vary, but competition for limited resources remains a constant.
- CEO Nwabudike Morgan
User avatar
MediumTex
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 9096
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:47 pm
Contact:

Re: GTU

Post by MediumTex » Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:55 pm

Pointedstick wrote: It's good enough IMHO:

[align=center]Image[/align]

Besides, those times when the lines diverse are great arbitrage opportunities!  ;D
If you understand the premium expansion/contraction, GTU can be a marvelous fund.
Q: “Do you have funny shaped balloons?”
A: “Not unless round is funny.”
User avatar
6 Iron
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 339
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:12 pm

Re: GTU

Post by 6 Iron » Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:23 pm

Thinking about doing this tomorrow; is there an intraday report of price to NAV somewhere? I have seen the end of day report at Central Gold Trust.
Last edited by Guest on Tue Apr 16, 2013 11:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
6 Iron
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 339
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:12 pm

Re: GTU

Post by 6 Iron » Thu Apr 18, 2013 11:10 am

I may be the last guy to see this, but on the off chance that others have not, GTU ninja steve posted this tool a year ago as a means for determining the nav intraday, with a delay in GTU price of about 15 minutes, so for me, close enough. Thanks, steve!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv? ... y=CNzzi40L
User avatar
MediumTex
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 9096
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:47 pm
Contact:

Re: GTU

Post by MediumTex » Thu Apr 18, 2013 11:39 am

6 Iron wrote: I may be the last guy to see this, but on the off chance that others have not, GTU ninja steve posted this tool a year ago as a means for determining the nav intraday, with a delay in GTU price of about 15 minutes, so for me, close enough. Thanks, steve!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv? ... y=CNzzi40L
That's awesome.  Thanks for reminding us about it.

It looks like a lot of that discount to NAV from Friday and Monday has closed up.  Those big discounts don't last long.  It's gone from -4.5% to -1.5%.
Last edited by MediumTex on Thu Apr 18, 2013 11:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
Q: “Do you have funny shaped balloons?”
A: “Not unless round is funny.”
User avatar
Ad Orientem
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3483
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2011 2:47 pm
Location: Florida USA
Contact:

Re: GTU

Post by Ad Orientem » Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:10 pm

@6 Iron
Wow. Thanks for posting.
Trumpism is not a philosophy or a movement. It's a cult.
rickb
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 762
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 12:12 am

Re: GTU

Post by rickb » Fri May 17, 2013 9:02 pm

Closed at about a 5% discount today.
User avatar
Ad Orientem
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 3483
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2011 2:47 pm
Location: Florida USA
Contact:

Re: GTU

Post by Ad Orientem » Fri May 17, 2013 9:44 pm

rickb wrote: Closed at about a 5% discount today.
I remember debating with someone the merits, and lack thereof, of closed ended gold funds. He was adamant that the premiums could only go one way no matter how strongly I cautioned that when gold started to sink, that the premiums could indeed go negative.
Trumpism is not a philosophy or a movement. It's a cult.
Post Reply