Bank safe box storage diversification and other tips

Discussion of the Gold portion of the Permanent Portfolio

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notsheigetz
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Re: Bank safe box storage diversification and other tips

Post by notsheigetz » Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:26 pm

Ad Orientem wrote: No. Last I'm aware of was world war 2. 1933 before that. There have of course been individual searches... I'm referring to mass searches.
I don't think governments could get away with the confiscation of gold nowadays, or ever again probably. I think they are stuck with doing all they can to prevent direct ownership and driving down the price as much as possible.
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Re: Bank safe box storage diversification and other tips

Post by smurff » Sun Jul 28, 2013 8:26 pm

Ad Orientem wrote:
During wartime, with a widely credited threat of imminent invasion, things are going to happen. I am not defending all of the measures taken. But in the context of the time and events, we had just been attacked, some are understandable.
We are in wartime right now, in a variety of different wars (Afghanistan hot war currently; Iraq recently even though there was an alleged pullout; threats back and forth between the USA and North Korea, Iran, and Syria; interference in Libya; handwringing over Egypt--the list is long).  There is moreover a real drone war against al-QAeda and and their allies, with the list/definition of "allies" a matter of national security--meaning there could be enough flexibility to include anyone inconvenient.

But I agree that right now the federal gov is not planning on any mass confiscation of gold or opening of safe deposit boxes, and if they tried the outcry against it would be great enough to stop it.  Don't know about the future, however.
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Re: Bank safe box storage diversification and other tips

Post by Ad Orientem » Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:42 pm

smurff wrote:
Ad Orientem wrote:
During wartime, with a widely credited threat of imminent invasion, things are going to happen. I am not defending all of the measures taken. But in the context of the time and events, we had just been attacked, some are understandable.
We are in wartime right now, in a variety of different wars (Afghanistan hot war currently; Iraq recently even though there was an alleged pullout; threats back and forth between the USA and North Korea, Iran, and Syria; interference in Libya; handwringing over Egypt--the list is long).  There is moreover a real drone war against al-QAeda and and their allies, with the list/definition of "allies" a matter of national security--meaning there could be enough flexibility to include anyone inconvenient.

But I agree that right now the federal gov is not planning on any mass confiscation of gold or opening of safe deposit boxes, and if they tried the outcry against it would be great enough to stop it.  Don't know about the future, however.
I think the situation is a bit different. In late 1941 and early '42 we had just been sucker-punched at Pearl Harbor. Most of the Pacific Fleet was destroyed. There were real fears of a Japanese invasion. Some enemy troops did actually invade and occupy some islands that were part of Alaska. On at least one occasion an enemy submarine bombarded a coastal town in Northern California. US Overseas Territory was invaded and occupied with dreadful atrocities committed against both POWs and civilians.

It was a different time.
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Re: Bank safe box storage diversification and other tips

Post by MediumTex » Mon Jul 29, 2013 2:50 am

smurff wrote: But I agree that right now the federal gov is not planning on any mass confiscation of gold or opening of safe deposit boxes, and if they tried the outcry against it would be great enough to stop it.  Don't know about the future, however.
I always figured that before the federal government seriously considered confiscating anyone's gold, they would first stop minting and selling gold coins.
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Re: Bank safe box storage diversification and other tips

Post by smurff » Mon Jul 29, 2013 8:22 am

That makes perfect sense.
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Re: Bank safe box storage diversification and other tips

Post by technovelist » Mon Jul 29, 2013 9:07 am

MediumTex wrote:
smurff wrote: But I agree that right now the federal gov is not planning on any mass confiscation of gold or opening of safe deposit boxes, and if they tried the outcry against it would be great enough to stop it.  Don't know about the future, however.
I always figured that before the federal government seriously considered confiscating anyone's gold, they would first stop minting and selling gold coins.
Why? The more they sell, the more they can confiscate!
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Re: Bank safe box storage diversification and other tips

Post by MediumTex » Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:57 am

technovelist wrote:
MediumTex wrote:
smurff wrote: But I agree that right now the federal gov is not planning on any mass confiscation of gold or opening of safe deposit boxes, and if they tried the outcry against it would be great enough to stop it.  Don't know about the future, however.
I always figured that before the federal government seriously considered confiscating anyone's gold, they would first stop minting and selling gold coins.
Why? The more they sell, the more they can confiscate!
Are you suggesting that the U.S. government would continue selling gold coins at the same time that it was confiscating the gold coins that people had bought?

That doesn't make any sense to me.

That would be like the government banning assault rifles after opening up a chain of "Uncle Sam Assault Rifle Shops."
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Re: Bank safe box storage diversification and other tips

Post by murphy_p_t » Mon Jul 29, 2013 3:23 pm

MediumTex wrote: That would be like the government banning assault rifles after opening up a chain of "Uncle Sam Assault Rifle Shops."
see Fast and Furious (gunrunning, not the movie)
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Re: Bank safe box storage diversification and other tips

Post by technovelist » Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:22 pm

MediumTex wrote:
technovelist wrote:
MediumTex wrote: I always figured that before the federal government seriously considered confiscating anyone's gold, they would first stop minting and selling gold coins.
Why? The more they sell, the more they can confiscate!
Are you suggesting that the U.S. government would continue selling gold coins at the same time that it was confiscating the gold coins that people had bought?

That doesn't make any sense to me.

That would be like the government banning assault rifles after opening up a chain of "Uncle Sam Assault Rifle Shops."
Are you under the mistaken impression that government actions generally make sense?
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Re: Bank safe box storage diversification and other tips

Post by Pointedstick » Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:43 pm

Technovelist brings up a good point. Plenty of government actions make no sense for the simple reason that different departments and agencies are responsible for different things. It's entirely possible for Agency A to be pursuing a policy entirely contravened by Agency B, or Law C, or court decision D, or point of common sense D.

Just about the only thing you can count on from any entity is self-preservation. Rarely rationality.
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Re: Bank safe box storage diversification and other tips

Post by MediumTex » Tue Jul 30, 2013 10:11 am

Another thing I don't understand about the gold confiscation scenarios is why the government would want anyone's gold. 

We're not on a gold standard, so it wouldn't improve the backing for the currency.

We will never go back onto a gold standard because politicians and central bankers hate it.

And the U.S. government is already the largest holder of gold in the world.  What would be the point of obtaining more through confiscation?
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Re: Bank safe box storage diversification and other tips

Post by Pointedstick » Tue Jul 30, 2013 10:19 am

I don't think they would want to have it, necessarily. That just wouldn't want YOU to have it. If capital controls become more strict and people start fleeing with gold, I could see restrictions on it as a crude, clumsy means of trying to inhibit the ability of people to use it to evade them.
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