Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Discussion of the Gold portion of the Permanent Portfolio

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SomeDude
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Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by SomeDude » Sat Sep 04, 2021 11:30 pm

vnatale wrote:
Sat Sep 04, 2021 11:23 pm
SomeDude wrote:
Sat Sep 04, 2021 10:15 am

Hold physical. Store some in a trusted repository if you're concerned about home invasion, even though hiding gold at home is simple beyond belief.
Probably even more simple in a house like mine...which is absolutely packed everywhere with things. I've sometimes said if thieves broke into my house...one would say to the other..."Let's go elsewhere. It'd take us forever to find what is worth anything in this house."
Unless you're in the ghetto, the threat of theft at home is very very low
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Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by Mark Leavy » Sat Sep 04, 2021 11:32 pm

vnatale wrote:
Sat Sep 04, 2021 11:23 pm
Probably even more simple in a house like mine...which is absolutely packed everywhere with things. I've sometimes said if thieves broke into my house...one would say to the other..."Let's go elsewhere. It'd take us forever to find what is worth anything in this house."
No one would ever suspect that the peanut butter jars filled with yellowish liquid and distributed throughout your house are really gold coins cleverly dissolved in aqua regia.
When Germany invaded Denmark in World War II, Hungarian chemist George de Hevesy dissolved the gold Nobel Prizes of German physicists Max von Laue (1914) and James Franck (1925) in aqua regia to prevent the Nazis from confiscating them.
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Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by Xan » Sat Sep 04, 2021 11:35 pm

Mark Leavy wrote:
Sat Sep 04, 2021 11:32 pm
No one would ever suspect that the peanut butter jars filled with yellowish liquid and distributed throughout your house are really gold coins cleverly dissolved in aqua regia.
It would be pretty darn funny if they did think that!
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Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by vnatale » Sat Sep 04, 2021 11:52 pm

SomeDude wrote:
Sat Sep 04, 2021 11:30 pm

vnatale wrote:
Sat Sep 04, 2021 11:23 pm

SomeDude wrote:
Sat Sep 04, 2021 10:15 am


Hold physical. Store some in a trusted repository if you're concerned about home invasion, even though hiding gold at home is simple beyond belief.


Probably even more simple in a house like mine...which is absolutely packed everywhere with things. I've sometimes said if thieves broke into my house...one would say to the other..."Let's go elsewhere. It'd take us forever to find what is worth anything in this house."


Unless you're in the ghetto, the threat of theft at home is very very low


I guess then I must have at one time lived in the ghetto by your definition?

For a few years I lived in various neighborhoods around Brown University in Providence, Rhode Island.

Now all the following happened in the space of three months...

1) About three months prior I'd spent all the money I had ($659.20) on a huge stereo system. [That would be the equivalent of spending over $4,300 today, which I'd never spend for a sound system even though that amount of money would be a tiny portion of my net worth while back then it was near 100% of my net worth.]

I found us an apartment to live in for me (the band's manager) and the band's bass player and one of its vocalists. Their bedrooms were on the third floor while mine was on the second floor.

When I looked at the apartment (which was two streets over from Brown University) I thought the neighborhood looked fine. Shortly after we moved in I discovered we were the only white people on the street and just around the corner was a liquor store where it looked like all the junkies hung out.

One morning I came home after having spent the night elsewhere. Was I shocked to see my whole sound system gone! I called the bass player at work to see if he'd done something with it. No.

Turned out that someone had just walked in while my band mates were in the floor above me, playing their own music, and took my sound system even though they were home! Rather brazen!

I later found out that every house had been broken into on that street except for one women who had three sons in their 20s living with her.

2) Short while later the bass player moved his van on to the street on a Sunday so someone else among us could get his car out of the driveway. He'd left that van unlocked. An hour later he went to the van and discovered in that short hour someone had stolen his van's sound system!

3) The final blow was shortly after that when all the band members were at the house for a meeting. When they went to go to the practice place in downtown Providence all these blacks came out of nowhere and were stoning our band members' vehicles. Our guitarist went chasing after them with a machete.

I ask you, Somedude. Were we living in the ghetto for those three months?
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Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by dualstow » Sun Sep 05, 2021 9:24 am

Mark Leavy wrote:
Sat Sep 04, 2021 11:32 pm
vnatale wrote:
Sat Sep 04, 2021 11:23 pm
Probably even more simple in a house like mine...which is absolutely packed everywhere with things. I've sometimes said if thieves broke into my house...one would say to the other..."Let's go elsewhere. It'd take us forever to find what is worth anything in this house."
No one would ever suspect that the peanut butter jars filled with yellowish liquid and distributed throughout your house are really gold coins cleverly dissolved in aqua regia.
When Germany invaded Denmark in World War II, Hungarian chemist George de Hevesy dissolved the gold Nobel Prizes of German physicists Max von Laue (1914) and James Franck (1925) in aqua regia to prevent the Nazis from confiscating them.
Awesome
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Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by pp4me » Mon Sep 06, 2021 2:37 pm

vnatale wrote:
Sat Sep 04, 2021 11:52 pm
SomeDude wrote:
Sat Sep 04, 2021 11:30 pm
vnatale wrote:
Sat Sep 04, 2021 11:23 pm
SomeDude wrote:
Sat Sep 04, 2021 10:15 am

Hold physical. Store some in a trusted repository if you're concerned about home invasion, even though hiding gold at home is simple beyond belief.
Probably even more simple in a house like mine...which is absolutely packed everywhere with things. I've sometimes said if thieves broke into my house...one would say to the other..."Let's go elsewhere. It'd take us forever to find what is worth anything in this house."
Unless you're in the ghetto, the threat of theft at home is very very low
I guess then I must have at one time lived in the ghetto by your definition?

For a few years I lived in various neighborhoods around Brown University in Providence, Rhode Island.

Now all the following happened in the space of three months...

1) About three months prior I'd spent all the money I had ($659.20) on a huge stereo system. [That would be the equivalent of spending over $4,300 today, which I'd never spend for a sound system even though that amount of money would be a tiny portion of my net worth while back then it was near 100% of my net worth.]

I found us an apartment to live in for me (the band's manager) and the band's bass player and one of its vocalists. Their bedrooms were on the third floor while mine was on the second floor.

When I looked at the apartment (which was two streets over from Brown University) I thought the neighborhood looked fine. Shortly after we moved in I discovered we were the only white people on the street and just around the corner was a liquor store where it looked like all the junkies hung out.

One morning I came home after having spent the night elsewhere. Was I shocked to see my whole sound system gone! I called the bass player at work to see if he'd done something with it. No.

Turned out that someone had just walked in while my band mates were in the floor above me, playing their own music, and took my sound system even though they were home! Rather brazen!

I later found out that every house had been broken into on that street except for one women who had three sons in their 20s living with her.

2) Short while later the bass player moved his van on to the street on a Sunday so someone else among us could get his car out of the driveway. He'd left that van unlocked. An hour later he went to the van and discovered in that short hour someone had stolen his van's sound system!

3) The final blow was shortly after that when all the band members were at the house for a meeting. When they went to go to the practice place in downtown Providence all these blacks came out of nowhere and were stoning our band members' vehicles. Our guitarist went chasing after them with a machete.

I ask you, Somedude. Were we living in the ghetto for those three months?
Would it have sounded better if Somedude had used "predominantly black neighborhood" instead of ghetto?
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Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by vnatale » Sun Oct 17, 2021 10:23 am

grapesofwrath wrote:
Sat Mar 18, 2017 4:43 pm

sophie wrote:
Grapes, I'm very happy with the Perth Mint solution for the portion of my gold allocation that isn't in ETFs in retirement accounts or in physical gold. You hinted that you're very comfortable with unallocated as opposed to allocated...care to elaborate on that?


Hi Sophie. The Unallocated at Perth Mint is supposedly backed up by their "working inventory" of gold and the allocated is supposedly a chunk of gold on a shelf somewhere with a post-it note with your name stuck on it. I practically can't see the actual gold in either option. In both cases I would have to have faith that they will honor me down the road. So I really can't see the difference. Ultimately one has to have to have some faith, and a level of trust is required with holding any asset (stocks, bonds, real estate, treasuries...) and any institution (broker, company, town, country , treasury department, bank safety deposit, insurance company, legal protection). I realize my risk is that Perth Mint don't honor me. I find that (hopefully) small risk easier to sleep with than issues with storage, fees, purity, scams, theft, torture etc. Being a gold middle man is all Perth Mint has done for >hundred years and it operates in a country and legal system that is as solid as any other (as I mentioned I lived in Australia once for ten years). Another reason I chose the unallocated program is I have over the minimum 250k so I pay zero in purchase fees and storage which I couldn't do with ETFs and/or buying coins/bars at a gold dealer which is a bleed on such a "passive" asset. I want to own a bit of gold for diversification. Also I like that with Perth mint I automatically get some instituitional and geographic diversification. I don't buy into the "great collapse" and "zombies coming" scenarios. My biggest fear is myself.


In the last few days I read someone stating in the forum that due to what is currently going on in Australia that Perth Mint should therefore be crossed off the list of places to buy / store gold?

Aside from that....are any of you currently using Perth Mint? Do any of you know if anything has changed with them regarding anything described above?

That "another reason" above has a lot of appeal.
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by dualstow » Fri Mar 25, 2022 2:47 pm

Answering ppnewbie's question from another thread:
ppnewbie wrote:
Fri Mar 25, 2022 12:46 pm
How liquid do you view your physical holdings?

Honestly, I don't plan to sell them except in case of emergency, but read on.
Do you know your local shop and can just go over and sell 5 eagles? Or do you use a dealer like Apmex, JM Builion?

- I used to know the guy at the local shop. He got old and retired. Also, some of the coins he sold me were filthy, which is not the end of the world but I have transitioned to using APMEX. I have bought random year coins but more recently it's been current year coins, nice and shiny, and I can keep track of them by date.
- I also used AJPM which was highly recommended by craig circa 2010. Mixed feelings. I think the company has changed management since Craig's recommendation. They were nice enough but couldn't spell my city name, a well known city, and I decided I didn't like ordering on the phone any more than I liked ordering clothes on the phone from a catalog in the 1980s. I am spoiled by the internet. So, another point for APMEX.
I would just go buy from my local shop but Apmex usually has much better deals.
I do find it interesting that you said APMEX has better deals. Their version of the spot price always seems to be US$9-10 higher than what AJPM posts. But, maybe that wouldn’t matter if I sought out their deals rather than buying current year coins.

Also, one thing that I realize is a big speed bump for me buying more physical is worrying about such a valuable package coming in the mail,
O0 I know the feeling. Once it took a long time for a package to arrive, but it did come. Also, once there was an address mixup, probably my fault, with another dealer whom I used briefly. We had temporarily moved to an apartment during a major home renovation. The package was returned to him, he ate the shipping cost, and he got it to me on the second try. These dealers generally use insurance, which is why you need to deal with the USPS and not the more reliable ( my opinion ) UPS. At least, APMEX insures.
Also, if I ever sold the physical I would have alot of anxiety about selling to a dealer like apmex, mailing it, hoping nothing goes wrong.
I would be apprehensive too if it were a big stash, but I also feel nervous transporting it in a crime-ridden city. I felt nervous for my dad driving 30K worth of collectible gold to sell it in another (non-crime-ridden) state. Again, insurance.

Would love to understand your thought process and the mechanics of what you do because I want to start habitually going into and out of physical but thinking about all this stuff is a big road block for me.
I am generally a nervous person but I mostly got over it. I am more likely to wake up wondering if the movers lost my Led Zeppelin bootleg LP or if it's still in my collection than about the coins.
Early on, I read advice here about keeping ETF gold to sell and I've never sold physical gold coins.
Keeping them in a safe deposit box helps give me peace of mind, despite a few articles about lost items.
I visit my box at least once per year just so the bank knows it's "active."
Next step: I'm overdue to buy insurance on the coins for even more peace of mind. It's really cheap and I have no excuse not to. Maybe you could weigh the cost vs an ETF's expense ratio.
If the bank loses it I guess it'll be like a sale, as long as I'm fully insured.
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Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by Don » Fri Mar 25, 2022 3:25 pm

"I visit my box at least once per year just so the bank knows it's "active."

I need to do this too.
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Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by dualstow » Mon Mar 28, 2022 7:12 am

I just remembered one other experience, probably posted elsewhere:

Apmex provides signature-required deliveries for all but the smallest orders, which is nice. However, I had some non-gold items delivered some years ago (fountain pens), and though I paid for signature required, the mail lady left it on my doorstep without so much as a knock. I told the fountain pen company and they generously refunded me the fee, but it left me wondering about gold deliveries.

If you live in a house where someone would have to go out of their way, up your driveway to steal your packages, it’s not an issue. I live in a dense urban area with “porch pirates.”

Still, I’ve had 2 or 3 small gold deliveries since then and no problems. Just something to keep in mind.
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Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by ppnewbie » Mon Apr 04, 2022 10:48 am

My Apmex deliveries have been good - with signature required. I did have one instance where I was not home and I got a text that it was at the post office. I went to the post office but it has not arrived yet. Happy the person there was competent and called me when it arrived, a day or two later. Then I went back and she rummaged around for a few minutes to find it.

That one was more moving parts than I was comfortable with but thankfully it worked out.
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Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by dualstow » Mon Apr 04, 2022 12:03 pm

It sounds like you’re already very experienced, ppnewbie. I guess you just don’t feel used to it yet - ?

I hate that when the post office summons me to pick something up, and then they don’t have it.
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Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by dualstow » Mon May 09, 2022 4:33 pm

Received my first ever British Sovereign today. Goddamn they are tiny.
Platinum jubilee design as shown here - https://www.royalmint.com/sovereign/2022/
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Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by I Shrugged » Mon May 09, 2022 7:03 pm

dualstow wrote:
Mon May 09, 2022 4:33 pm
Received my first ever British Sovereign today. Goddamn they are tiny.
Platinum jubilee design as shown here - https://www.royalmint.com/sovereign/2022/
I was watching a Doug Casey (fka The International Man) video, and the discussion turned to how do you carry your gold coins into a country. He said quarter ounce coins are easy enough to have some in a purse or the like and let them run through the scanners. OTOH he says one ounce coins present all sorts of problems. For this reason he only buys the quarters.
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Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by dualstow » Mon May 09, 2022 7:37 pm

Interesting. I’m not sure about the fraction, but I think Mark Leavy mentioned ½ oz coins slipped in with change, like quarters. What do we do when people stop carrying change?
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Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by dualstow » Wed May 11, 2022 6:22 am

I didn’t used to like the fractional coins, but now that I have some in my possession, I like to look at them. That’s dangerous.

For those of you just starting out, focus on 1oz coins because you get way much bang for your buck. Look at the price of a 1/4 or ½ ounce and then multiply it by 4 or 2. Then match it with the price of a full ounce on the same site. Unless your goal is to carry these through TSA all the time, stilck with the 1oz coins. The “friction” is already bad enough.
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Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by ppnewbie » Thu May 12, 2022 10:58 pm

Personally, if I can get fractional coins for the same premium as 1 oz I go for those.
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Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by dualstow » Fri May 13, 2022 7:36 am

ppnewbie wrote:
Thu May 12, 2022 10:58 pm
Personally, if I can get fractional coins for the same premium as 1 oz I go for those.
I might, too, but i buy from Apmex and the premium is way higher for fractional there.
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Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by ppnewbie » Fri May 13, 2022 10:30 am

dualstow wrote:
Fri May 13, 2022 7:36 am
ppnewbie wrote:
Thu May 12, 2022 10:58 pm
Personally, if I can get fractional coins for the same premium as 1 oz I go for those.
I might, too, but i buy from Apmex and the premium is way higher for fractional there.
I started when I was in full zombie apocalypse mode thinking that fractional would be easier to trade but now just try to add some if it’s cheap. Which like you said does not really happen much. I did pass up an opportunity to buy maple grams at the same premium as an eagle. I kick myself for that one.
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Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by Vil » Fri May 13, 2022 11:54 am

dualstow wrote:
Fri May 13, 2022 7:36 am
ppnewbie wrote:
Thu May 12, 2022 10:58 pm
Personally, if I can get fractional coins for the same premium as 1 oz I go for those.
I might, too, but i buy from Apmex and the premium is way higher for fractional there.
Do not think its only Apmex that sell fractional at premium, think that's pretty much the case everywhere .. :D
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Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by dualstow » Fri May 13, 2022 12:01 pm

I would assume the same, Vil. The only thing I knew for sure was that ppnewbie was not using Apmex. O0
Inconsequential: the 1/4 oz eagle I bought using bitcoin from this forum did feel good. Should have spent more.
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Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by Vil » Fri May 13, 2022 12:10 pm

dualstow wrote:
Fri May 13, 2022 12:01 pm
I would assume the same, Vil. The only thing I knew for sure was that ppnewbie was not using Apmex. O0
Inconsequential: the 1/4 oz eagle I bought using bitcoin from this forum did feel good. Should have spent more.
I do not have eagles at all, should buy some, some day. To be honest I rarely feel the satisfaction of contemplating single coin (regardless of the type, mint, etc.); what makes me smile is to feel the weight of all the coins ;D
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Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by dualstow » Fri May 13, 2022 12:34 pm

You may enjoy it, but every time a banker remarks that my box is “heavy”, I get nervous! :D

You’ve given me an idea. I think Budd should buy bars and have them melted into hand weights! 💥
I find the weight of a one-ounce coin pleasant.

At this moment I see an 1809 spot price and would love to buy more, but I don’t think i’m going to be home to receive it. Too bad. Will it be closer to 1700 or 1900 when I return home and feel safe to buy?
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Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by ppnewbie » Fri May 13, 2022 12:45 pm

Vil wrote:
Fri May 13, 2022 11:54 am
dualstow wrote:
Fri May 13, 2022 7:36 am
ppnewbie wrote:
Thu May 12, 2022 10:58 pm
Personally, if I can get fractional coins for the same premium as 1 oz I go for those.
I might, too, but i buy from Apmex and the premium is way higher for fractional there.
Do not think its only Apmex that sell fractional at premium, think that's pretty much the case everywhere .. :D
The fractional stuff I got from my local coin shop. I got the fraction by buying these from the local shop

https://www.jmbullion.com/4-coin-proof- ... le-set-vy/

Also occasionally, Vacambi combibars show up on Apmex for a low premium. I have an unhealthy fixation on those. And I did notice a while back (before the Ukraine invasion) that some nice 10 gram bars were at a 6% premium. Did not pull the trigger on those either.
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Re: Where and how do you purchase physical gold?

Post by dualstow » Fri May 13, 2022 1:13 pm

ppnewbie wrote:
Fri May 13, 2022 12:45 pm
The fractional stuff I got from my local coin shop. I got the fraction by buying these from the local shop
https://www.jmbullion.com/4-coin-proof- ... le-set-vy/
..
The bullion version not the proof version, right?
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