Poll: What percentage of your gold is held in physical form?

[goodasgold]

Coins, bars, jewelry, nuggets, Perth Mint, etc.? ETFs and closed end accounts, of course, don't qualify as physical.

[goodasgold]

Looking at responses so far, I am a surprised how low physical holdings are.

At a minimum, I believe ETF holdings of gold should be distributed between several companies to reduce the likelihood of catastrophic losses due to fraud, natural disasters and terrorism (dirty bombs, etc.) related to one company.

And when the chips are down, I personally would not have a whole lot of faith regarding the actual contents of the vaults where the physical gold  backing up the ETFs is reportedly being held.

[Kshartle]

Would you count the Perth mint?

I think the case could be made that this is a safer way to own gold as an American than physical gold here.

If you really need it and need to get out of dodge it will be risky trying to leave with it.

[Snoopy]

100% physical here. 

Don't trust ETFs for gold holdings in a crisis!

[goodasgold]

100% physical here. 

Don't trust ETFs for gold holdings in a crisis!

Welcome to the board, Snoopy.

[Snoopy]

Thanks, goodasgold. 

I don't really feel "new" to the board, as I've consistently lurked since its beginning, and used the Permanent Portfolio strategy for 6 years.

I retired last July and intend to continue investing with the PP.  Don't intend to draw from investments for another 5-10 yrs., Lord willing.  It's been pretty good for me, so far. 

[Ad Orientem]

Would you count the Perth mint?

I think the case could be made that this is a safer way to own gold as an American than physical gold here.

If you really need it and need to get out of dodge it will be risky trying to leave with it.

Yes, I would count Perth Mint as physical.

Edit: Provided that the account is in your name and not via a brokerage.

[dualstow]

Looking at responses so far, I am a surprised how low physical holdings are.
...

ETFs are convenient.
(1) I can hold them in my 401(k). I know there are some ways to hold gold coins in an IRA, too, but ETFs are hassle free.
(2) I've been hesitating to pick up the phone and buy coins since the price was US$1250. On the other hand, it is of course trivially easy to tap a few keys on the keyboard and add new shares of IAU.
(3) My favorite dealer only does ten coins or more at a time. There are dealers in my town that I can walk to and buy fewer than that, but the deal is not as good if I buy fewer than ten. Sometimes I will do that (buy one coin), but this is where ETFs shine once again: you can buy less than $1,000 worth of IAU with a few dollars' commission.

[dualstow]

and
(4) With ETFs, you aren't suddenly at a 4% loss due to the markup. (I remembered this one when I placed an order yesterday).

[goodasgold]

Looking at responses so far, I am a surprised how low physical holdings are.
...

ETFs are convenient.

Yes, ETFs are convenient, making it easy to rebalance, so I rely on them to a certain extent. But IMO there is nothing like the ultimate security of holding gold in a locked and insured safe deposit box, which in turn is locked inside of a bank vault.

In William Bernstein's largely favorable review of the PP, he asked if people can trust an ETF to return "their" gold on demand. His concise answer: "I don't."

[dualstow]

I fully agree with you, goodas. In fact, I ordered eagles a couple of days ago. (That's why the price is now down again. Sorry guys).
Physical gold is better. But, people tend to do what's convenient. That's why we microwave pizzas sometimes instead of washing green leaf lettuce and making a nutritious salad. That's all I meant.

[barrett]

That's why we microwave pizzas sometimes instead of washing green leaf lettuce and making a nutritious salad. That's all I meant.

Plus, let's face it, dualstow, after eating that leafy-green "nutritious salad", we are still hungry.

On a side note, it astounds me that folks order gold to be delivered through the mail. If I did that, I'd be waiting outside for the mailman 24 hours a day. Is the savings on what the mail order places take above the spot price a so great, or is it just convenient (like microwaving the pizza)?

[dualstow]

That's why we microwave pizzas sometimes instead of washing green leaf lettuce and making a nutritious salad. That's all I meant.

Plus, let's face it, dualstow, after eating that leafy-green "nutritious salad", we are still hungry.

Yes! 

On a side note, it astounds me that folks order gold to be delivered through the mail. If I did that, I'd be waiting outside for the mailman 24 hours a day. Is the savings on what the mail order places take above the spot price a so great, or is it just convenient (like microwaving the pizza)?

Regarding mail delivery: I don't own a car, so my only options are to walk it over or use the mail. I walk small orders home from my local dealer-- searching this forum for "hiding places" might turn up a good thread on disguising gold, although I cannot remember if I revealed what I use.

For most orders my best option is the mail, especially now that I use a dealer up in New Hampshire. He expresses the order for $25, and that includes insurance.

I did panic when my 2nd or 3rd order from my previous dealer (A.J.P.M.) was rather late, but it came through and all was well. Plus, now we're temporarily in an apartment with a guard and a package room. Things could still go wrong. In fact, the package will probably come on the same day that renovation on my house begins, but I think it'll be fine. A little stress makes me feel alive.

[Pointedstick]

Plus, let's face it, dualstow, after eating that leafy-green "nutritious salad", we are still hungry.

My solution to this problem is to add bleu cheese, olive oil, and vinegar. Fills me right up and it's even pretty healthy. The ingredients are all pretty cheap at Costco, too.

[k9]

100% physical here. To each his own, but I don't really get the "I'm 100% ETF because that's more convenient". You are not supposed to ever sell your whole gold portion (except in armaggedon scenarios). So you can hold a stable foundation (say, 1/3rd of it you will probably never, ever sell) as physical gold and keep the potentially-rebalanced 2/3 in ETFs.

[yankees60]

Time for current forum members to vote?

Of all the posters in here so far I'm only recognizing as two (Ad & Dualstow) still being active in the forum.

Here the what the results look like prior to any further voting. Curious to see if current voting changes the percentages in any way.

Vinny

Capture.JPG (31.34 KiB) Viewed 11069 times

[ochotona]

Get the package sent to a UPS Customer center. Go and get it yourself. They are liable for the full value until you put your hands on it. That's recommended by Texas Precious Metals.

77% physical.

[yankees60]

Get the package sent to a UPS Customer center. Go and get it yourself. They are liable for the full value until you put your hands on it. That's recommended by Texas Precious Metals.

77% physical.

Your above answer was actually quite priceless to me as it's been one of THE burning questions and one of my fears. What happens if I expend ALL this money and it never makes it to me! Do I ask them can we do this in five separate purchases so the maximum I lose is 20% of the buy? Or, does that raise the likelihood of a loss?

I'm now taking your recommendation as my full gospel but amending it with..."and immediately start driving to each of the banks whose safety deposit boxes you will be using to store it!"

Thanks

Vinny

[dualstow]

I wish my dealers offered UPS. If I recall, they all used Priority Mail (USPS). Maybe there’s some way to work that out?

Looking back at page one (2013), ugh. I want nothing to do with gold ETFs now. Also, that New Hampshire dealer did send a shipment to the apartment after we had moved back into our home. Luckily, the package was not lost and made its way back to him.

[ochotona]

Dear Mr. Ochotona Princeps,

Thank you for your order.

We have noticed that you have specified a UPS Store as your delivery address:

c/o The UPS Store
6031 Hwy 6 N, Suite 165
Houston, Texas, 77084

As you know, we ship all of our packages via UPS overnight delivery.

However, what is unique about this service is that UPS Capital insures 100% of all of the packages we ship - not a third party, and not self-insurance. In simple terms, UPS has 100% skin in the game.

As part of that commitment, UPS releases their insurance commitment at signature. If a package is stolen at the privately owned UPS Store, they will not insure it from that point forward, even if you have not signed for the package. (A UPS Stores insurance usually covers up to a value of $1000).

The UPS Customer Center is different, because only the client’s signature suffices to release UPS’s liability. This is the reason for the UPS Store restriction - we can of course ship to the store if you have an account with them and are prepared to waiver insurance (once delivered).

Your nearest UPS Center is:

UPS CC - HOUSTON
8330 SWEETWATER LN, HOUSTON, TX, 77037-3616
Tel: 800-742-5877

Alternatively we can ship to a physical address (home or work place).

Please confirm how you wish to proceed.

Kind Regards,

Andrew.
--
Andy McIvor
Email: andy@texmetals.com
Phone: 361.594.3624
959 Hwy 95N Shiner, TX 77984
Visit our Website texmetals.com

[Libertarian666]

I wish my dealers offered UPS. If I recall, they all used Priority Mail (USPS). Maybe there’s some way to work that out?

Looking back at page one (2013), ugh. I want nothing to do with gold ETFs now. Also, that New Hampshire dealer did send a shipment to the apartment after we had moved back into our home. Luckily, the package was not lost and made its way back to him.

Every dealer I know ships via registered insured mail. Those packages don't get "lost" in transit.

[dualstow]

Mine were Insured too, yes.

[SomeDude]

Gold is a physical element. If you have something other than the physical element you have something other than gold. You have a claim on it and hope the custodian will turn it over to you at some time. The thing is......if you're not demanding possession now when promises are being honored, when will you? Will you demand it when promises are being broken?

Maybe you have gld or a futures contact, which are more like a bet on the paper price.

If you have paper bets on gold and not actual good.....what's stopping you from getting the real thing?

[Hal]

100% Physical for me. Some overseas, rest in local depositories. "NONE" at home, only few silver coins in case of emergency.

Now the wisdom of HB's advice about keeping some assets overseas has become apparent. Australia shut its border, even to its own citizens, for months and still hasn't allowed everyone to return. How would well would you survive if you went on international holidays then found yourself locked out for six months?

[Kriegsspiel]

I still had some ETF back when I answered this poll. I only have bullion now.