Perth Mint Online Depository Program

Discussion of the Gold portion of the Permanent Portfolio

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AdamA
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Re: Perth Mint Online Depository Program

Post by AdamA » Tue Apr 26, 2016 8:36 am

sixdollars wrote:
AdamA wrote: Good discussion here.

http://gyroscopicinvesting.com/forum/gold/perth-mint/

There are a lot of good posts by the user named Bronsuchecki.  He works there, I think.
Isn't that discussion with regards to the certificate program which had a 10k minimum? I believe this new one doesn't have this requirement unless I'm missing something.

https://www.perthmint.com/storage
Ah...yes, you're right.  I didn't understand initially.

I would like to hear what Bronchecki has to say about it, if he still posts here. 
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AdamA
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Re: Perth Mint Online Depository Program

Post by AdamA » Tue Apr 26, 2016 8:39 am

MachineGhost wrote:
Yeah, but no one with a brain would use unallocated storage except as a temporary parking place. 
I'm not sure I agree.  I think either you trust the mint or you don't. 

If they're not honest enough to honor the unallocated storage, then why would anyone expect them to honor the allocated storage?
"All men's miseries derive from not being able to sit in a quiet room alone."

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Cortopassi
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Re: Perth Mint Online Depository Program

Post by Cortopassi » Tue Apr 26, 2016 9:00 am

Gold is the ultimate safety net of everything going to crap.  At least that's what a lot of people believe, me included.  Maybe it is unwarranted and things hopefully will never get that bad.

However, for those who have their (for example) stock portion in VTI, bonds in TLT, cash in a money market, gold in GLD or similar, a global event could make all of that inaccessible for an undetermined length of time.

I'd suggest at least some portion of cash and gold reasonably readily available.  Whether that means a safe deposit box at a local bank, under your mattress or in your own 1000lb TL-30 rated safe, I don't know, but somewhere closer than Australia would make me feel more comfortable!
But what do I know?
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MachineGhost
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Re: Perth Mint Online Depository Program

Post by MachineGhost » Tue Apr 26, 2016 3:14 pm

What I wonder is what exactly is the diffrence between the Online Program and the Depository Program???  The fees for both are all the same, as is the Certificate Program.  Just another relatively bad deal.  Maybe Perth is just too much the armpit of Australia to have economies of scale to lower costs?
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes

Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet.  I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
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MachineGhost
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Re: Perth Mint Online Depository Program

Post by MachineGhost » Tue Apr 26, 2016 3:24 pm

AdamA wrote:
MachineGhost wrote:
Yeah, but no one with a brain would use unallocated storage except as a temporary parking place. 
I'm not sure I agree.  I think either you trust the mint or you don't. 

If they're not honest enough to honor the unallocated storage, then why would anyone expect them to honor the allocated storage?
That's not the point.  It's about title and ownership.  You don't own anything in unallocated storage and have no legal claim on it.  It's a liability on the books of Perth Mint and there is no guarantee there is enough gold readily available at any one time to supply withdrawal demand.  In other words, there's no FR or FDIC to deal with a "bank run".  Unallocated gold is like going back to the past and suffering the same "wildcat banking" indignities all over again.

A real asset is only "real" if its literally real.
"All generous minds have a horror of what are commonly called 'Facts'. They are the brute beasts of the intellectual domain." -- Thomas Hobbes

Disclaimer: I am not a broker, dealer, investment advisor, physician, theologian or prophet.  I should not be considered as legally permitted to render such advice!
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Re: Perth Mint Online Depository Program

Post by technovelist » Tue Apr 26, 2016 8:54 pm

sophie wrote:
technovelist wrote:
sophie wrote: globalgold looks really good, except for the minimum of 50,000 CHF.
I wouldn't think that would be a big problem for most of the people on this forum.
I guess you have a big taxable stash!  Congrats are in order.  Or maybe you don't contribute much to tax advantaged accounts?  Tax deferral/Roth is a big enough deal in my high tax heaven here that tax advantaged account contributions take precedence over all else.
I'm in retirement (mostly) so I don't contribute to tax advantaged accounts.

And actually I cashed out a bunch of retirement accounts a few years ago before tax rates went up, so now I don't have much left in tax advantaged accounts.

Of course Roths don't help with current taxation either, just future taxation. If they don't change the rules, that is...
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Hal
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Re: Perth Mint Online Depository Program

Post by Hal » Wed Apr 27, 2016 6:57 am

This might help

https://www.perthmint.com/storage/

also a friend uses this service in Singapore ( Jim Sinclair info:  http://www.jsmineset.com/2013/11/23/jim ... nge-sgpmx/ )

http://www.sgpmx.com/services/secured_storage/

From what I understand, its stored in a duty free vault at the airport
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Re: Perth Mint Online Depository Program

Post by JohnnyFactor » Thu Sep 01, 2016 9:14 pm

Bron Suchecki has stated that unallocated is fully backed by physical at all times. They will not sell you an ounce if they don't physically have it. Perth Mint is a manufacturer not a lender, so they do not fractionalize or lease their gold. It's all spelled out here:
https://www.perthmint.com/storage/help/ ... torage-fee

The 5% fee to convert to allocated is the fabrication cost of making bars and coins. It's pretty close to a typical bullion dealers markup and I consider it a wash, compared to other choices.
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Re: Perth Mint Online Depository Program

Post by vnatale » Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:43 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Tue Apr 26, 2016 9:00 am
Gold is the ultimate safety net of everything going to crap.  At least that's what a lot of people believe, me included.  Maybe it is unwarranted and things hopefully will never get that bad.

However, for those who have their (for example) stock portion in VTI, bonds in TLT, cash in a money market, gold in GLD or similar, a global event could make all of that inaccessible for an undetermined length of time.

I'd suggest at least some portion of cash and gold reasonably readily available.  Whether that means a safe deposit box at a local bank, under your mattress or in your own 1000lb TL-30 rated safe, I don't know, but somewhere closer than Australia would make me feel more comfortable!
We are currently in the midst of a "global event" (it this an "event" or "a period of time" (of indeterminate length at this point)?).

So far has any of the four been made inaccessible for any length of time?

Vinny
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Re: Perth Mint Online Depository Program

Post by pmward » Tue Mar 31, 2020 4:24 pm

vnatale wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:43 pm
Cortopassi wrote:
Tue Apr 26, 2016 9:00 am
Gold is the ultimate safety net of everything going to crap.  At least that's what a lot of people believe, me included.  Maybe it is unwarranted and things hopefully will never get that bad.

However, for those who have their (for example) stock portion in VTI, bonds in TLT, cash in a money market, gold in GLD or similar, a global event could make all of that inaccessible for an undetermined length of time.

I'd suggest at least some portion of cash and gold reasonably readily available.  Whether that means a safe deposit box at a local bank, under your mattress or in your own 1000lb TL-30 rated safe, I don't know, but somewhere closer than Australia would make me feel more comfortable!
We are currently in the midst of a "global event" (it this an "event" or "a period of time" (of indeterminate length at this point)?).

So far has any of the four been made inaccessible for any length of time?

Vinny
Well individual treasury bonds went no bid at times two weeks ago. If you needed to sell an individual treasury bond there was not always someone there willing to buy for any price. It was the individual bond itself that had that illiquidity effect, not the ETF. In the bond ETF's like TLT instead of not being able to access the cash, this instead manifested in the ETF's trading lower than NAV. Unlike the individual bonds, you could still sell the ETFs (as the ETF's are more liquid than the underlying bonds) but you had to pay for that liquidity during the crunch. So there were differing tradeoffs both to individual bond holders and ETF holders, and both played out slightly differently. Mutual funds likely also went below NAV, but they do not update their NAV figures daily like ETF's do, they only update at end of quarter. And since end of quarter is today, and the Fed restored liquidity to the market, we cannot know for sure how much this effected mutual funds. The takeaway, there is no safe way to hold anything. There are always tradeoffs. Having diversity in the ways you hold bonds and gold is probably good (some physical, some ETF, some mutual funds, etc) to counterbalance the risks.
Last edited by pmward on Tue Mar 31, 2020 4:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Perth Mint Online Depository Program

Post by dualstow » Tue Mar 31, 2020 4:28 pm

Hey, he said "a global event could..."
not
all global events will...
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Re: Perth Mint Online Depository Program

Post by vnatale » Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:23 pm

dualstow wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 4:28 pm
Hey, he said "a global event could..."
not
all global events will...
Yes. That is exactly why I worded my question as so: "So far has any of the four been made inaccessible for any length of time?" I was asking by whatever definition he choses to use if he believed any of them have yet qualified to meet his definition.

Vinny
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