What's going on with silver?

Discussion of the Gold portion of the Permanent Portfolio

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dualstow
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Re: What's going on with silver?

Post by dualstow » Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:09 am

Well, you’ve influenced me. I picked up a few silver Roos.
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Re: What's going on with silver?

Post by Ad Orientem » Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:46 am

And the blood letting continues... Silver briefly dropped below $14.00 oz, though it has since moved slightly above that level. The silver/gold price ratio is now 85:1. Gold is also down below its $1200 oz support level.
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Re: What's going on with silver?

Post by ochotona » Tue Sep 11, 2018 12:14 pm

$11.90 silver! (Aspiration, not fact)
Last edited by ochotona on Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What's going on with silver?

Post by dualstow » Tue Sep 11, 2018 12:50 pm

8) ok. Never mind, in light of ocho’s edit. 8)
ochotona wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 12:14 pm
$11.90 silver!
Apmex says $14.23 (1:50 EST). I guess that was a brief blip?
Last edited by dualstow on Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What's going on with silver?

Post by Cortopassi » Tue Sep 11, 2018 3:34 pm

I am hoping a multi-decade low in silver corresponds with my rebalancing in early Jan! In any event, it will likely be close (I hope)
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Re: What's going on with silver?

Post by Ad Orientem » Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:07 pm

ochotona wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 12:14 pm
$11.90 silver! (Aspiration, not fact)
I would not mind that on a temporary basis. But I would prefer that it not get there for a month or so. My discretionary (VP) reserves are somewhat depleted at the moment.
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Re: What's going on with silver?

Post by dualstow » Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:21 pm

Remember when we all used to discuss the exact composition of golden eagles and gold krugs? I don’t remember anyone exploring silver in a similar, uh, vein.

Silver eagles have a tiny bit of copper, but the wiki page doesn’t tell us about what non-silver metal is in Vienna philharmonics. Is it always copper?
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Re: What's going on with silver?

Post by dualstow » Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:38 pm

I had no idea that Apmex shows your whole portfolio that you bought from them. It's not merely order history. It shows the current value and the % that is gold, that is silver, etc. Nice.
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Re: What's going on with silver?

Post by Xan » Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:58 pm

dualstow wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:38 pm
I had no idea that Apmex shows your whole portfolio that you bought from them. It's not merely order history. It shows the current value and the % that is gold, that is silver, etc. Nice.
Eek. I'd much rather they forget they ever heard of me. Am I wrong?
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Re: What's going on with silver?

Post by dualstow » Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:04 pm

Xan wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:58 pm
dualstow wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:38 pm
I had no idea that Apmex shows your whole portfolio that you bought from them. It's not merely order history. It shows the current value and the % that is gold, that is silver, etc. Nice.
Eek. I'd much rather they forget they ever heard of me. Am I wrong?
I can understand that sentiment, too. I think you can order as a guest, without logging in.
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Re: What's going on with silver?

Post by ochotona » Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:41 am

So if I got a monster box of silver, and hid it in my attic, how could I armor it so that it could withstand a fire? What kind of container would I have to put it into? What is the UL designation or whatever of such a box? Could I make one? Silver melts at 1763 deg F.

Would a broken mini-refrigerator that no one wants be a place to start?

{Genuine green monster box from the United States Mint. Dimensions are: 14.75" x 8.5" x 4.5". Holds up to 25 tubes for Silver Eagle coins.}
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Re: What's going on with silver?

Post by Cortopassi » Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:25 am

Attic? What happens when the joists burn through and it ends up in the basement, spilled all over? I think the lowest level of the house is more appropriate.

Fire Rating
Fire ratings are evaluated by testing to see if safes withstand varying furnace heat for specific amounts of time. For example, the UL Class 350 1-hour fire rating means that the internal temperature of the safe will not exceed 350°F for at least 1 hour when exposed to external temperatures over 1700°F. A safe may have a 1-, 2-, or 3-hour time classification. Additionally, safes will be heated and then dropped from heights reaching 30 feet to test against explosions.
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Re: What's going on with silver?

Post by dualstow » Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:31 am

ochotona wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:41 am
So if I got a monster box of silver, and hid it in my attic, how could I armor it so that it could withstand a fire? What kind of container would I have to put it into? What is the UL designation or whatever of such a box? Could I make one? Silver melts at 1763 deg F.

Would a broken mini-refrigerator that no one wants be a place to start?

{Genuine green monster box from the United States Mint. Dimensions are: 14.75" x 8.5" x 4.5". Holds up to 25 tubes for Silver Eagle coins.}
Never mind where silver melts. You don't want the plastic box melting all over it, right?
I feel like I read very recently that someone suggested a fireproof box inside a safe. I think that's what I would do.
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Re: What's going on with silver?

Post by ochotona » Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:55 am

No basement. House on slab.
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Re: What's going on with silver?

Post by dualstow » Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:58 am

Can you store it at that cool place you posted pics of? The place where you bought gold in the past?
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Re: What's going on with silver?

Post by ochotona » Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:56 am

dualstow wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:58 am
Can you store it at that cool place you posted pics of? The place where you bought gold in the past?
Oh, my safe deposit box at Chappell Hill Bank? Yeah, well, they ran out of big boxes, there is no room in my small box for bulky silver, and I can't upgrade to another box... I guess I could get another box at another institution, though. Yeah, for a few bucks a year, maybe I should do that.
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Re: What's going on with silver?

Post by Ad Orientem » Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:12 am

ochotona wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:56 am
dualstow wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:58 am
Can you store it at that cool place you posted pics of? The place where you bought gold in the past?
Oh, my safe deposit box at Chappell Hill Bank? Yeah, well, they ran out of big boxes, there is no room in my small box for bulky silver, and I can't upgrade to another box... I guess I could get another box at another institution, though. Yeah, for a few bucks a year, maybe I should do that.
if you have a lot of PMs spreading them around is a good idea. I now have two SDBs at different banks. This was necessitated by my recent silver buys.
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Re: What's going on with silver?

Post by eufo » Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:23 pm

Obviously bury it in the backyard. O0
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Re: What's going on with silver?

Post by Ad Orientem » Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:36 pm

If I decide to do anymore speculating in silver I may just buy the SLV ETF.
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Re: What's going on with silver?

Post by dualstow » Thu Sep 20, 2018 4:02 pm

Ad Orientem wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:36 pm
If I decide to do anymore speculating in silver I may just buy the SLV ETF.
Well, that fizzled out rather quickly. O0 And I don't blame you at all. I never planned to buy physical silver, period, but I couldn't help myself. If I look at the picture enough times while checking the spot price it might as well be something that lingered in my Amazon cart. Resistance is futile.

I plan to give most of mine away as gifts, like I did with my initial order (also paltry) a couple of years ago.

It's fun to visualize how much your total wealth is in gold ounces, silver ounces, and big macs, but without cheap and convenient storage, gold is the only thing that really makes sense to have in physical. IMO. You know, some of the thousands of Saudi princes probably have rooms full of silver and gold coins. Not for me.
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Re: What's going on with silver?

Post by Ad Orientem » Thu Sep 20, 2018 6:50 pm

dualstow wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 4:02 pm
Ad Orientem wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:36 pm
If I decide to do anymore speculating in silver I may just buy the SLV ETF.
Well, that fizzled out rather quickly. O0 And I don't blame you at all. I never planned to buy physical silver, period, but I couldn't help myself. If I look at the picture enough times while checking the spot price it might as well be something that lingered in my Amazon cart. Resistance is futile.

I plan to give most of mine away as gifts, like I did with my initial order (also paltry) a couple of years ago.

It's fun to visualize how much your total wealth is in gold ounces, silver ounces, and big macs, but without cheap and convenient storage, gold is the only thing that really makes sense to have in physical. IMO. You know, some of the thousands of Saudi princes probably have rooms full of silver and gold coins. Not for me.
Storage is indeed an issue. But for me the problem is more that I am fundamentally a gold guy when the subject is long term investing in PMs. I like silver on an aesthetic basis. I think it is actually nicer looking than gold. But from the investment POV the attraction is purely speculative based on the current rather unusual market conditions.
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Re: What's going on with silver?

Post by dualstow » Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:02 pm

Harry gave his reasons for phasing it out. That’s always been good enough for me.
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Re: What's going on with silver?

Post by eufo » Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:07 am

dualstow wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:02 pm
Harry gave his reasons for phasing it out. That’s always been good enough for me.
Please forgive my laziness of not looking it up myself, but what were his reasons?

For me, the obvious ones are storage and portability. It would be difficult to conceal a large amount of wealth in silver.
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Re: What's going on with silver?

Post by ochotona » Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:38 am

No kidding, my gold holdings would weigh 655 lbs if silver. But that was before the boat accident.
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Re: What's going on with silver?

Post by dualstow » Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:20 am

He said that gold was doing the job on its own, i.e. the job of 25% of the portfolio, and that silver was superfluous. I read this in Best Laid Plans...He also mentioned what you’ve often heard about silver being more important for industrial use than a store of value.

I wasn’t aware of Harry when he was publishing that newsletter, but I think he got everyone out of silver at a fairly fortuitous time.
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