Is Trump doing a good job?

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dualstow
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by dualstow » Sun Nov 17, 2019 7:43 pm

Libertarian666 wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 6:57 pm
The beef between Turkey and the Kurds is none of our business. Those people have been killing each other for centuries, and getting in the middle of that is a certain recipe for disaster.

Ok, but don’t you think we got in the Kurds’ business long enough to receive help from them, so that we should help them back instead of screwing them over and leaving them to be slaughtered? A simple this for that or what do they call it? Quid pro quo.

As for "witness intimidation", did you know that the witness would never have known about the "mean tweet" during her testimony if Schiff hadn't read it to her.
I did not and do not know that. Trump doesn’t tweet for his own consumption. When the President tweets about you, one is going to hear about it. I only remember her speaking about the torment in the past tense, and in plural “days.”
Simonjester wrote: i agree we should help them ..but..
there is more than one way to support the kurds. Boots on the ground may be the go to solution for those with a vested interest in the perma-war state, just not necessarily the best solution for Americans or the Kurds.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by vnatale » Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:35 pm

Libertarian666 wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 6:57 pm
dualstow wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 4:43 pm
Libertarian666 wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:34 pm
Disagree on gold: it would go to the moon.
Tech, maybe six months ago, you asked what specifically I didn’t like about Trump’s actions or policies (not words), and I’ve certainly been taking my time to supply more than a few. There are some that actions and policies i like.

But, it’s time to add two more glaring problems to the list:
ALLOWING TURKEY TO MASSACRE KURDS // if I didn’t mention it before
WITNESS INTIMIDATION. // fairly fresh, of course

*Never mind the moon quote. I just wanted a quote in your notifications.
The beef between Turkey and the Kurds is none of our business. Those people have been killing each other for centuries, and getting in the middle of that is a certain recipe for disaster.

As for "witness intimidation", did you know that the witness would never have known about the "mean tweet" during her testimony if Schiff hadn't read it to her.

Also, the definition of "witness intimidation" doesn't cover this situation anyway: "Witness intimidation means the threatening of a crucial court witnesses by pressure or extortion to compel him/her to not to testify." (https://definitions.uslegal.com/w/witness-intimidation/)

There was no threat and she was not a "crucial witness", since she witnessed nothing.

Of course I know why you are grasping at straws. You don't have anything.
I believe that there was a break shortly after Schiff had read it to her. It's a near certainty even if Schiff had not read it to her, she would have been told about it by someone(s) during that break.

And, it comes down to how one interprets both "pressure" and "crucial witness". It's clear how you are interpreting both of them but that does not make either interpretation definitive.

Vinny
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by dualstow » Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:48 pm

Simonjester wrote: i agree we should help them ..but..
there is more than one way to support the kurds. Boots on the ground may be the go to solution for those with a vested interest in the perma-war state, just not necessarily the best solution for Americans or the Kurds.
We helped the Hmong permanently settle in the States. Are you thinking something along those lines? If not, then——?
From the Kurdish point of view, it must look strange. We’re fine making war with ISIS and the reward the Kurds get for fighting on our side is: we are a peace-loving nation and have decided to stop fighting at this time. You’re on your own with the Kurds.

Or, maybe Trump has a thing for dictators and strongmen. There are things I like about the Trump administrations’ actions and by tech’s own definition of TDS, that disqualifies me. Putin, Kim, Duterte, Bolsonaro, and Erdogan. He loves the despots.
I hope we get something out of this move.
Simonjester wrote:
i hadn't considered resettling but ..sure... its one tool in the list of a bunch that could be used, humanitarian aid, (food, water, medical care) international sanctions against the aggressors, no fly zones, provide military Intel, training, weapons/ammunition. and undoubtedly others that i haven't heard mentioned or suggested yet.. ...mix and match.... use what makes the best strategic and diplomatic sense based on an accurate understanding of the immediate situation, and the big picture..
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by WiseOne » Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:52 am

dualstow wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:48 pm
Simonjester wrote: i agree we should help them ..but..
there is more than one way to support the kurds. Boots on the ground may be the go to solution for those with a vested interest in the perma-war state, just not necessarily the best solution for Americans or the Kurds.
We helped the Hmong permanently settle in the States. Are you thinking something along those lines? If not, then——?
From the Kurdish point of view, it must look strange. We’re fine making war with ISIS and the reward the Kurds get for fighting on our side is: we are a peace-loving nation and have decided to stop fighting at this time. You’re on your own with the Kurds.

Or, maybe Trump has a thing for dictators and strongmen. There are things I like about the Trump administrations’ actions and by tech’s own definition of TDS, that disqualifies me. Putin, Kim, Duterte, Bolsonaro, and Erdogan. He loves the despots.
I hope we get something out of this move.
Why does everyone think that migrating a group like the Hmong or the Kurds (or Syrians or Guatemalans for that matter) to the US is a good thing? It is a surefire way to wipe out a culture permanently, which I don't view as a good thing. Neither is uprooting an entire population from the land they've lived in for centuries. There are so many negatives to this I don't even know where to begin.

I agree with Libertarian666 that sending troops to intervene between Turkey and the Kurds would be the height of folly. So we'd not only be waging permanent war in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Syria, but we'd have to add Turkey to the list. Also, Turkey is currently a (much-needed) ally in the Middle East, whose military bases are critical jumping-off points for the existing Mideast wars, and that obviously would no longer be the case. I would favor diplomacy (focused on Turkey) but probably nothing beyond that.

On the other hand, if we no longer had Turkey's military bases to use for staging areas, maybe the other Mideast wars would fizzle out....good thing perhaps?
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by dualstow » Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:58 am

😂 😂
Alright, alright, Tech. I guess I’m stage one or stage 2 then, but being aware of your own illness is the beginning step on the road to recovery.

Now what are you doing to curb your Trump Adoration Syndrome? O0
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by dualstow » Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:25 am

WiseOne: my first choice would be for a Kurdistan. But, it’s going to take some serious “folly” first.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by vnatale » Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:41 am

Libertarian666 wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:41 pm
vnatale wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:35 pm
Libertarian666 wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 6:57 pm
dualstow wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 4:43 pm
Libertarian666 wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:34 pm
Disagree on gold: it would go to the moon.
Tech, maybe six months ago, you asked what specifically I didn’t like about Trump’s actions or policies (not words), and I’ve certainly been taking my time to supply more than a few. There are some that actions and policies i like.

But, it’s time to add two more glaring problems to the list:
ALLOWING TURKEY TO MASSACRE KURDS // if I didn’t mention it before
WITNESS INTIMIDATION. // fairly fresh, of course

*Never mind the moon quote. I just wanted a quote in your notifications.
The beef between Turkey and the Kurds is none of our business. Those people have been killing each other for centuries, and getting in the middle of that is a certain recipe for disaster.

As for "witness intimidation", did you know that the witness would never have known about the "mean tweet" during her testimony if Schiff hadn't read it to her.

Also, the definition of "witness intimidation" doesn't cover this situation anyway: "Witness intimidation means the threatening of a crucial court witnesses by pressure or extortion to compel him/her to not to testify." (https://definitions.uslegal.com/w/witness-intimidation/)

There was no threat and she was not a "crucial witness", since she witnessed nothing.

Of course I know why you are grasping at straws. You don't have anything.
I believe that there was a break shortly after Schiff had read it to her. It's a near certainty even if Schiff had not read it to her, she would have been told about it by someone(s) during that break.

And, it comes down to how one interprets both "pressure" and "crucial witness". It's clear how you are interpreting both of them but that does not make either interpretation definitive.

Vinny
TDS will make you see things that aren't there.
I'm not going to read your posts on political topics anymore, as they contain nothing but your completely biased opinions.
Who is NOT biased?

However...….a short while ago on this morning's C-Span's Washington Journal I heard Jonathan Turley speak about the Impeachment Inquiry. He is a law professor at Georgetown. And, he seemed completely credible on many levels.

He caused me to now agree with you that it was NOT witness intimidation. He stated it did not fit the legal definition. That Trump had not engaged in an act using his official position. That because he is president does not mean he gives up his 1st Amendment rights.

On the other hand, that he tweeted what he did was the major event of the Friday hearings. It was a turning point in the Republicans questioning of the ambassador. That after the release of that tweet they pulled back considerably in the aggressiveness of their questions towards her.

Vinny
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by vnatale » Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:44 am

Libertarian666 wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:47 am

dualstow wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:48 pm

Simonjester wrote:
i agree we should help them ..but..
there is more than one way to support the kurds. Boots on the ground may be the go to solution for those with a vested interest in the perma-war state, just not necessarily the best solution for Americans or the Kurds.

We helped the Hmong permanently settle in the States. Are you thinking something along those lines? If not, then——?
From the Kurdish point of view, it must look strange. We’re fine making war with ISIS and the reward the Kurds get for fighting on our side is: we are a peace-loving nation and have decided to stop fighting at this time. You’re on your own with the Kurds.

Or, maybe Trump has a thing for dictators and strongmen. There are things I like about the Trump administrations’ actions and by tech’s own definition of TDS, that disqualifies me. Putin, Kim, Duterte, Bolsonaro, and Erdogan. He loves the despots.
I hope we get something out of this move.


Note: I'm not a psychiatrist, so this is not medical advice.

There are different stages of TDS. We are still in the early days of research on this plague affecting society, but here's a rough guideline for diagnosing a patient:

Stage 1: Thinks Trump is bad and Trump supporters are deluded but not necessarily evil. Has absorbed some but not all of the propaganda about Trump's being racist, liking dictators, and the like. If shown some achievement that the patient would agree with if it were the work of someone other than Trump, e.g., VA reform, tax reform, or prison reform such as the First Step Act, agrees that it is a good achievement. The patient will improve his opinion of Trump slightly after this.

Stage 2: Knows Trump is evil and a threat to society, but probably not as bad as Hitler, whereas Trump supporters are dumb hicks like on Hee-Haw. Spouts some Democrat talking points easily but doesn't have all the current ones memorized. If shown an achievement as above, denigrates it as being not of any importance, or says Obama is responsible for it.

Stage 3: Trump is not only evil, but as bad as Hitler, and his supporters are Nazi sympathizers. Knows all of the current talking points and will bring them up on any topic that is even tangentially related to politics. If shown an achievement as above, says it is positively horrific even though the patient would have thought it was wonderful if someone else had done it.

Stage 4: Trump is worse than Hitler, Stalin, and Mussolini combined, and his supporters are a combination of Nazis and KKK members. Keeps up with intraday changes to talking points and cannot discuss any topic without bringing up Trump and blaming him. Trump has turned the US into a dystopian horror for which the only possible remedy is the extermination of him and his followers.

Hope that helps.


Was ALL of this YOUR original writings? If so then if I was a political science professor and you were my student, I'd have to give you a grade of no less than A+.

Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by vnatale » Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:52 am

Libertarian666 wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:48 am
vnatale wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:41 am
Libertarian666 wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:41 pm
vnatale wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:35 pm
Libertarian666 wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 6:57 pm
dualstow wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 4:43 pm
Libertarian666 wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:34 pm
Disagree on gold: it would go to the moon.
Tech, maybe six months ago, you asked what specifically I didn’t like about Trump’s actions or policies (not words), and I’ve certainly been taking my time to supply more than a few. There are some that actions and policies i like.

But, it’s time to add two more glaring problems to the list:
ALLOWING TURKEY TO MASSACRE KURDS // if I didn’t mention it before
WITNESS INTIMIDATION. // fairly fresh, of course

*Never mind the moon quote. I just wanted a quote in your notifications.
The beef between Turkey and the Kurds is none of our business. Those people have been killing each other for centuries, and getting in the middle of that is a certain recipe for disaster.

As for "witness intimidation", did you know that the witness would never have known about the "mean tweet" during her testimony if Schiff hadn't read it to her.

Also, the definition of "witness intimidation" doesn't cover this situation anyway: "Witness intimidation means the threatening of a crucial court witnesses by pressure or extortion to compel him/her to not to testify." (https://definitions.uslegal.com/w/witness-intimidation/)

There was no threat and she was not a "crucial witness", since she witnessed nothing.

Of course I know why you are grasping at straws. You don't have anything.
I believe that there was a break shortly after Schiff had read it to her. It's a near certainty even if Schiff had not read it to her, she would have been told about it by someone(s) during that break.

And, it comes down to how one interprets both "pressure" and "crucial witness". It's clear how you are interpreting both of them but that does not make either interpretation definitive.

Vinny
TDS will make you see things that aren't there.
I'm not going to read your posts on political topics anymore, as they contain nothing but your completely biased opinions.
Who is NOT biased?

However...….a short while ago on this morning's C-Span's Washington Journal I heard Jonathan Turley speak about the Impeachment Inquiry. He is a law professor at Georgetown. And, he seemed completely credible on many levels.

He caused me to now agree with you that it was NOT witness intimidation. He stated it did not fit the legal definition. That Trump had not engaged in an act using his official position. That because he is president does not mean he gives up his 1st Amendment rights.

On the other hand, that he tweeted what he did was the major event of the Friday hearings. It was a turning point in the Republicans questioning of the ambassador. That after the release of that tweet they pulled back considerably in the aggressiveness of their questions towards her.

Vinny
Dershowitz has a similar analysis and of course he is a Democrat, like Turley. Both of them are pretty good in actually analyzing the law rather than just going along with the Democrat talking points, which is why neither of them is very popular with most Democrats.

As for the Republicans' questioning of the ambassador, since she didn't actually witness anything I'm not sure how her testimony is relevant to anything anyway.

In a broader view, I think this whole "impeachment in search of a crime" is going to blow up in the Democrats' faces. The general public isn't onboard with it, which they would have to be for the Democrats to benefit politically, and it is solidifying the Republican base even more than it already has been.
The relevance of her testimony is her removal. Yes, all ambassadors "serve at the pleasure of the president". But was her removal part something larger? What was the reason such a long-term ambassador was removed?

And, Turley also pointed out that it was NOT part of Pelosi's plan to have this Impeachment Inquiry. Then this July 25th Ukraine call emerged which forced her hand.

Vinny
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by dualstow » Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:11 am

Libertarian666 wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:42 am
dualstow wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:58 am
😂 😂
Alright, alright, Tech. I guess I’m stage one or stage 2 then, but being aware of your own illness is the beginning step on the road to recovery.

Now what are you doing to curb your Trump Adoration Syndrome? O0
Actually there's a well-known treatment for that: read the NYT or Washington Post, or watch MSNBC/CNN/ABC/NBC/CBS.
Fortunately I don't have to do that myself because I have Mark Dice and Mark Levin to do it for me!
Jokes aside, you should take a break from the spinning Dice once in a while and peek directly. I peek at Fox and OneAmericaNews once in a while, and I can't imaging having Jake Tapper or Chris Cuomo interpret it for me. (I actually don't watch that much cnn. Mostly cnbc). I listen to Mark Levin once in a while. Smart, but hateful.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by dualstow » Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:59 am

He's on TV? What channel?
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by Libertarian666 » Mon Nov 18, 2019 1:55 pm

dualstow wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:59 am
He's on TV? What channel?
Fox News, Sunday night 8 PM Eastern time.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by Kriegsspiel » Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:50 pm

WiseOne wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:52 am
dualstow wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:48 pm
Simonjester wrote: i agree we should help them ..but..
there is more than one way to support the kurds. Boots on the ground may be the go to solution for those with a vested interest in the perma-war state, just not necessarily the best solution for Americans or the Kurds.
We helped the Hmong permanently settle in the States. Are you thinking something along those lines? If not, then——?
From the Kurdish point of view, it must look strange. We’re fine making war with ISIS and the reward the Kurds get for fighting on our side is: we are a peace-loving nation and have decided to stop fighting at this time. You’re on your own with the Kurds.
Why does everyone think that migrating a group like the Hmong or the Kurds (or Syrians or Guatemalans for that matter) to the US is a good thing? It is a surefire way to wipe out a culture permanently, which I don't view as a good thing. Neither is uprooting an entire population from the land they've lived in for centuries. There are so many negatives to this I don't even know where to begin.
+1

That said, I don't think I've met a Kurd that I didn't like. There's just something about the idea of inviting over large populations of foreigners to live in our country that makes me grok wrongness.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by jacksonm2 » Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:22 pm

dualstow wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:48 pm
Or, maybe Trump has a thing for dictators and strongmen. There are things I like about the Trump administrations’ actions and by tech’s own definition of TDS, that disqualifies me. Putin, Kim, Duterte, Bolsonaro, and Erdogan. He loves the despots.
Most Filipinos I know, and I'm married to one of them, would not appreciate seeing Duterte lumped in with that group of despots. To them, he is the Donald Trump of the Philippines.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by vnatale » Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:48 pm

Libertarian666 wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:49 am

vnatale wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:44 am

Libertarian666 wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:47 am

dualstow wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:48 pm

Simonjester wrote:
i agree we should help them ..but..
there is more than one way to support the kurds. Boots on the ground may be the go to solution for those with a vested interest in the perma-war state, just not necessarily the best solution for Americans or the Kurds.

We helped the Hmong permanently settle in the States. Are you thinking something along those lines? If not, then——?
From the Kurdish point of view, it must look strange. We’re fine making war with ISIS and the reward the Kurds get for fighting on our side is: we are a peace-loving nation and have decided to stop fighting at this time. You’re on your own with the Kurds.

Or, maybe Trump has a thing for dictators and strongmen. There are things I like about the Trump administrations’ actions and by tech’s own definition of TDS, that disqualifies me. Putin, Kim, Duterte, Bolsonaro, and Erdogan. He loves the despots.
I hope we get something out of this move.


Note: I'm not a psychiatrist, so this is not medical advice.

There are different stages of TDS. We are still in the early days of research on this plague affecting society, but here's a rough guideline for diagnosing a patient:

Stage 1: Thinks Trump is bad and Trump supporters are deluded but not necessarily evil. Has absorbed some but not all of the propaganda about Trump's being racist, liking dictators, and the like. If shown some achievement that the patient would agree with if it were the work of someone other than Trump, e.g., VA reform, tax reform, or prison reform such as the First Step Act, agrees that it is a good achievement. The patient will improve his opinion of Trump slightly after this.

Stage 2: Knows Trump is evil and a threat to society, but probably not as bad as Hitler, whereas Trump supporters are dumb hicks like on Hee-Haw. Spouts some Democrat talking points easily but doesn't have all the current ones memorized. If shown an achievement as above, denigrates it as being not of any importance, or says Obama is responsible for it.

Stage 3: Trump is not only evil, but as bad as Hitler, and his supporters are Nazi sympathizers. Knows all of the current talking points and will bring them up on any topic that is even tangentially related to politics. If shown an achievement as above, says it is positively horrific even though the patient would have thought it was wonderful if someone else had done it.

Stage 4: Trump is worse than Hitler, Stalin, and Mussolini combined, and his supporters are a combination of Nazis and KKK members. Keeps up with intraday changes to talking points and cannot discuss any topic without bringing up Trump and blaming him. Trump has turned the US into a dystopian horror for which the only possible remedy is the extermination of him and his followers.

Hope that helps.


Was ALL of this YOUR original writings? If so then if I was a political science professor and you were my student, I'd have to give you a grade of no less than A+.

Vinny


Yes, that was all my original writing. Thanks!


Your talent in doing that certainly dwarfs mine. If my hypothetical was reversed (you--the professor --assigning me--the student--the assignment to create the definition) I would have frozen in fear. Creativity in writing is NOT anywhere near a talent for me.

Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by WiseOne » Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:11 am

Kriegsspiel wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:50 pm
WiseOne wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:52 am
dualstow wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:48 pm
Simonjester wrote: i agree we should help them ..but..
there is more than one way to support the kurds. Boots on the ground may be the go to solution for those with a vested interest in the perma-war state, just not necessarily the best solution for Americans or the Kurds.
We helped the Hmong permanently settle in the States. Are you thinking something along those lines? If not, then——?
From the Kurdish point of view, it must look strange. We’re fine making war with ISIS and the reward the Kurds get for fighting on our side is: we are a peace-loving nation and have decided to stop fighting at this time. You’re on your own with the Kurds.
Why does everyone think that migrating a group like the Hmong or the Kurds (or Syrians or Guatemalans for that matter) to the US is a good thing? It is a surefire way to wipe out a culture permanently, which I don't view as a good thing. Neither is uprooting an entire population from the land they've lived in for centuries. There are so many negatives to this I don't even know where to begin.
+1

That said, I don't think I've met a Kurd that I didn't like. There's just something about the idea of inviting over large populations of foreigners to live in our country that makes me grok wrongness.
Yes, I'm sure that my being against uprooting an entire population and transplanting them to the US would have me labeled as a "racist" in a heartbeat. It's ridiculous how that narrative is trotted out for just about everything immigration-related.

Another way that the idea of population transplants rubs me the wrong way: there's a hidden undercurrent of Western Superiority Syndrome in it. i.e. of course the Kurds would be better off in the US because their culture and the land they live in now are not up to our high standards. If anything, THAT attitude should be labeled as racist.

btw I suppose I could be accused of Trump Adoration Syndrome also. It's just then when I view the actions of his administration objectively and mentally remove the cloud of hysteria that surrounds the reporting, his painfully ignorant & obtuse quotes & tweets, and the personal dramas that I expect are going on constantly in the White House and probably are worse than what we hear about in the media, I find little that is objectionable and plenty to be happy about. It's a case of picking your poison.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by dualstow » Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:11 am

jacksonm2 wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:22 pm
dualstow wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:48 pm
Or, maybe Trump has a thing for dictators and strongmen. There are things I like about the Trump administrations’ actions and by tech’s own definition of TDS, that disqualifies me. Putin, Kim, Duterte, Bolsonaro, and Erdogan. He loves the despots.
Most Filipinos I know, and I'm married to one of them, would not appreciate seeing Duterte lumped in with that group of despots. To them, he is the Donald Trump of the Philippines.
Seriously? No offense to the wife or any of his supporters, but his policy of open season on suspected drug dealers means that people are murdering their rivals in the streets, whether or not they are actual drug dealers. In the meantime, his son is dealing drugs. For many reasons, Duterte is the definition of a despot.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by dualstow » Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:29 am

I’m going to untangle a few quotes here, as they’re getting kind of hard to match with the author.
(dual.)We helped the Hmong permanently settle in the States. Are you thinking something along those lines? If not, then——?
From the Kurdish point of view, it must look strange. We’re fine making war with ISIS and the reward the Kurds get for fighting on our side is: we are a peace-loving nation and have decided to stop fighting at this time. You’re on your own with the Kurds.
(Soph.)
Why does everyone think that migrating a group like the Hmong or the Kurds (or Syrians or Guatemalans for that matter) to the US is a good thing? It is a surefire way to wipe out a culture permanently, which I don't view as a good thing. Neither is uprooting an entire population from the land they've lived in for centuries.

WiseOne, I was just asking Simonjester if that was one of the things he had in mind.
Do you think Hmong culture has been “wiped out permanently”? From what I know about them (casual interview with someone who lived with them and studied them), they have been quite slow to assimilate. Which invites its own criticisms- but they’re alive.
WiseOne wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:11 am
Yes, I'm sure that my being against uprooting an entire population and transplanting them to the US would have me labeled as a "racist" in a heartbeat. It's ridiculous how that narrative is trotted out for just about everything immigration-related.

Another way that the idea of population transplants rubs me the wrong way: there's a hidden undercurrent of Western Superiority Syndrome in it. i.e. of course the Kurds would be better off in the US because their culture and the land they live in now are not up to our high standards. If anything, THAT attitude should be labeled as racist.
My own 2¢ for what it’s worth: I’m not advocating kidnapping the Kurds, or any population, and forcibly moving them to the States, wholesale. I would be in favor of fast-tracking immigration for those Kurds who want it. They’ve earned it. I know someone who lied about being a refugee to get “asylum” in the U.S. from China. I’d rather have the Kurds. No interview required.

It would be nice to have Kurdistan, and at one point, I thought it was going to be carved out of Iraq. Hey, it would be nice to have an independent Palestine. The chance for either is looking slim.

As you defined it, transplanting an *entire* ethnic group does or can appear racist if the idea behind it is that Western culture is superior, with our Burger King and our Kim Kardashian. Personally, I was thinking more along the lines of, they won’t be slaughtered by Erdogan’s armed forces while we dream about Kurdistan.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by jacksonm2 » Tue Nov 19, 2019 11:43 am

dualstow wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:11 am
jacksonm2 wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:22 pm
dualstow wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:48 pm
Or, maybe Trump has a thing for dictators and strongmen. There are things I like about the Trump administrations’ actions and by tech’s own definition of TDS, that disqualifies me. Putin, Kim, Duterte, Bolsonaro, and Erdogan. He loves the despots.
Most Filipinos I know, and I'm married to one of them, would not appreciate seeing Duterte lumped in with that group of despots. To them, he is the Donald Trump of the Philippines.
Seriously? No offense to the wife or any of his supporters, but his policy of open season on suspected drug dealers means that people are murdering their rivals in the streets, whether or not they are actual drug dealers. In the meantime, his son is dealing drugs. For many reasons, Duterte is the definition of a despot.
Well, maybe the Wyatt Earp of the Philippines would be a better comparison than Donald Trump. My wife's hometown was run by drug lords, one of which was the mayor. He was killed a couple of years ago when Duterte sent in the troops. We saw a lot of it in progress via smartphone camera when it happened. It was like the gunfight at the OK corral. Was just there in August and it's still the Wild West but nobody is mourning the death of the mayor.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by dualstow » Tue Nov 19, 2019 12:15 pm

I'm sure they aren't.

Some more Trump items.

Pardoned officers convicted of war crimes, including murder.
All three cases had been championed by conservative lawmakers and media personalities as an overreaction to the chaos and confusion of wartime decisions. But critics have warned the moves could send the message that troops need not worry about following rules of engagement when fighting enemies abroad.
https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pent ... mes-cases/

Trump admits to misusing charity
and agreed to pay $2 million in damages. ...acknowledged using Trump Foundation funds on his businesses and to buy an autographed Tim Tebow football helmet and a $10,000 portrait of himself that was hung at his Doral, Fla., golf resort. The foundation raised $2.8M at a supposed veterans fundraiser in 2016, which Trump illegally diverted to his campaign. ...
That's from my print copy of The Week, but here's a link to the same story.
https://theweek.com/speedreads/877129/t ... judge-says
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by Kriegsspiel » Tue Nov 19, 2019 4:54 pm

dualstow wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 12:15 pm
Pardoned officers convicted of war crimes, including murder.
All three cases had been championed by conservative lawmakers and media personalities as an overreaction to the chaos and confusion of wartime decisions. But critics have warned the moves could send the message that troops need not worry about following rules of engagement when fighting enemies abroad.
https://www.militarytimes.com/news/pent ... mes-cases/
I guessed 2/3 of the names mentioned before clicking! Batting .666!
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by vnatale » Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:11 pm

Libertarian666 wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:31 pm

vnatale wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:48 pm

Libertarian666 wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:49 am

vnatale wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:44 am

Libertarian666 wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:47 am

dualstow wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:48 pm

Simonjester wrote:
i agree we should help them ..but..
there is more than one way to support the kurds. Boots on the ground may be the go to solution for those with a vested interest in the perma-war state, just not necessarily the best solution for Americans or the Kurds.

We helped the Hmong permanently settle in the States. Are you thinking something along those lines? If not, then——?
From the Kurdish point of view, it must look strange. We’re fine making war with ISIS and the reward the Kurds get for fighting on our side is: we are a peace-loving nation and have decided to stop fighting at this time. You’re on your own with the Kurds.

Or, maybe Trump has a thing for dictators and strongmen. There are things I like about the Trump administrations’ actions and by tech’s own definition of TDS, that disqualifies me. Putin, Kim, Duterte, Bolsonaro, and Erdogan. He loves the despots.
I hope we get something out of this move.


Note: I'm not a psychiatrist, so this is not medical advice.

There are different stages of TDS. We are still in the early days of research on this plague affecting society, but here's a rough guideline for diagnosing a patient:

Stage 1: Thinks Trump is bad and Trump supporters are deluded but not necessarily evil. Has absorbed some but not all of the propaganda about Trump's being racist, liking dictators, and the like. If shown some achievement that the patient would agree with if it were the work of someone other than Trump, e.g., VA reform, tax reform, or prison reform such as the First Step Act, agrees that it is a good achievement. The patient will improve his opinion of Trump slightly after this.

Stage 2: Knows Trump is evil and a threat to society, but probably not as bad as Hitler, whereas Trump supporters are dumb hicks like on Hee-Haw. Spouts some Democrat talking points easily but doesn't have all the current ones memorized. If shown an achievement as above, denigrates it as being not of any importance, or says Obama is responsible for it.

Stage 3: Trump is not only evil, but as bad as Hitler, and his supporters are Nazi sympathizers. Knows all of the current talking points and will bring them up on any topic that is even tangentially related to politics. If shown an achievement as above, says it is positively horrific even though the patient would have thought it was wonderful if someone else had done it.

Stage 4: Trump is worse than Hitler, Stalin, and Mussolini combined, and his supporters are a combination of Nazis and KKK members. Keeps up with intraday changes to talking points and cannot discuss any topic without bringing up Trump and blaming him. Trump has turned the US into a dystopian horror for which the only possible remedy is the extermination of him and his followers.

Hope that helps.


Was ALL of this YOUR original writings? If so then if I was a political science professor and you were my student, I'd have to give you a grade of no less than A+.

Vinny


Yes, that was all my original writing. Thanks!


Your talent in doing that certainly dwarfs mine. If my hypothetical was reversed (you--the professor --assigning me--the student--the assignment to create the definition) I would have frozen in fear. Creativity in writing is NOT anywhere near a talent for me.

Vinny


I appreciate the compliment. I should mention that I have an advantage in having written hundreds of thousands of words for publication over the last several decades.


That would explain your overall excellent writing style. However, isn't creativity one of those talents you are either born with or not? Like being born athletic or not? In both cases you can somewhat work at being better at them but you'll just never achieve what someone can who was gifted with the talent. That is not to denigrate any hard work you put into cultivating your obvious talent. A lot of people never sufficiently develop their talents.

Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by Libertarian666 » Tue Nov 19, 2019 11:00 pm

vnatale wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:11 pm
Libertarian666 wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:31 pm

I appreciate the compliment. I should mention that I have an advantage in having written hundreds of thousands of words for publication over the last several decades.
That would explain your overall excellent writing style. However, isn't creativity one of those talents you are either born with or not? Like being born athletic or not? In both cases you can somewhat work at being better at them but you'll just never achieve what someone can who was gifted with the talent. That is not to denigrate any hard work you put into cultivating your obvious talent. A lot of people never sufficiently develop their talents.

Vinny
Obviously different people have different amounts of creativity but that doesn't mean that people can't improve it at least to some extent. It is definitely possible to learn problem-solving techniques, which can help one develop more creative solutions to problems. Is that the same as increasing creativity itself? I'm not sure it matters.

And of course it takes work to develop talent to the maximum extent. It's a shame that this work is lost when a talented person dies. I've spent probably around 100k hours on programming and related tasks such as writing about programming. I wish I could pass my knowledge along to others in its entirety, but of course that's impossible with current technology.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by WiseOne » Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:58 am

dualstow wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:29 am
I’m going to untangle a few quotes here, as they’re getting kind of hard to match with the author.
(dual.)We helped the Hmong permanently settle in the States. Are you thinking something along those lines? If not, then——?
From the Kurdish point of view, it must look strange. We’re fine making war with ISIS and the reward the Kurds get for fighting on our side is: we are a peace-loving nation and have decided to stop fighting at this time. You’re on your own with the Kurds.
(Soph.)
Why does everyone think that migrating a group like the Hmong or the Kurds (or Syrians or Guatemalans for that matter) to the US is a good thing? It is a surefire way to wipe out a culture permanently, which I don't view as a good thing. Neither is uprooting an entire population from the land they've lived in for centuries.

WiseOne, I was just asking Simonjester if that was one of the things he had in mind.
Do you think Hmong culture has been “wiped out permanently”? From what I know about them (casual interview with someone who lived with them and studied them), they have been quite slow to assimilate. Which invites its own criticisms- but they’re alive.
WiseOne wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:11 am
Yes, I'm sure that my being against uprooting an entire population and transplanting them to the US would have me labeled as a "racist" in a heartbeat. It's ridiculous how that narrative is trotted out for just about everything immigration-related.

Another way that the idea of population transplants rubs me the wrong way: there's a hidden undercurrent of Western Superiority Syndrome in it. i.e. of course the Kurds would be better off in the US because their culture and the land they live in now are not up to our high standards. If anything, THAT attitude should be labeled as racist.
My own 2¢ for what it’s worth: I’m not advocating kidnapping the Kurds, or any population, and forcibly moving them to the States, wholesale. I would be in favor of fast-tracking immigration for those Kurds who want it. They’ve earned it. I know someone who lied about being a refugee to get “asylum” in the U.S. from China. I’d rather have the Kurds. No interview required.
Makes sense. The Kurds would definitely qualify for refugee status, as it was originally meant to be used. Honestly, that status should only be used when there has been official (ie Congressional) recognition of an appropriate situation in a specific location/population. Not just a free for all where anyone can come in by saying the magic word.

I was reacting mainly to suggestions that the solution to the Kurds' current problems is to move them here. That implies either directly going there expressly to encourage and facilitate migration, or even forcibly removing them from their homes. That, I am not in favor of.

As far as the Hmong...they certainly were facing an equivalent or worse situation. However, if they've all been moved here their culture and language are doomed. It may take a few generations, but it's inevitable.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by dualstow » Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:54 am

I agree with you as far as the ones in the U.S. go.
But, just going by Wikipedia -- not a perfect source, of course -- they still mostly live in Asia.
If you look at the religious persecution section, the ones still in Asia are still worse off. Christians and Animists.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hmong_peo ... ersecution
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