Is Trump doing a good job?

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shekels
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by shekels » Thu Oct 24, 2019 2:35 pm

Maddy wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 2:16 pm
shekels wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 2:01 pm
dualstow wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 9:47 am

Did the American People really know what the Money was spent on Before it went dark?
Probably not, but accounting statements were required and could be obtained by anyone who asked for them. Not so anymore.

There are some interesting commentaries by Catherine Austin Fitts on this subject. She was the Assistant Secretary of HUD during the Bush I administration and a former Wall Street investment banker. She relates how one of her first tasks was to get a handle on the workings of the financially troubled agency, and when she asked for the financials, she was flat-out denied access to them. She now regards HUD as a massive money-laundering operation and speculates that money is being created out of thin air and shuttled out the back door to non-governmental entities for projects that the government wishes to be kept off the radar screen.
Money seems to be created out of thin air at the Fed also, it has been Corrupt.
So who can you vote for that is going to change the Corrupt way Washington operates? ???
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
stuper1
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by stuper1 » Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:07 pm

Here's a corollary question: is Trump doing a better job than Hillary would have? I would say yes. She probably would have had us into 10 more wars by now.

Here's a more relevant corollary question: will Trump do a better job than Warren/Biden/Sanders? Again I would say yes, because he will keep the government smaller than any of those people would. I couldn't care less how many times a day he tweets, or whatever ridiculous hyperbolic statements he makes when he does tweet.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by dualstow » Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:44 pm

stuper1 wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:07 pm
Here's a corollary question: is Trump doing a better job than Hillary would have? I would say yes. She probably would have had us into 10 more wars by now.
Very possibly.
Here's a more relevant corollary question: will Trump do a better job than Warren/Biden/Sanders? Again I would say yes, because he will keep the government smaller than any of those people would.
Quite possibly, he could be less worse. O0
I couldn't care less how many times a day he tweets, or whatever ridiculous hyperbolic statements he makes when he does tweet.
I wouldn't say your comment above is a strawman, but it's precisely why I included the Foreign Affairs quote at the beginning of this thread. Verbal bombast aside, I wanted a quote from an expert who can illustrate how badly Trump is f'ing up.

Well, that's just the middle east, one might say. Trump is doing well for Americans.
Could be, could be. I approve of what he's doing with China.

That's why I want to hear what you all think of his record thus far. Not his tweets, but his actions. Does it matter to you that he doesn't want to give up his tax returns? How is he doing re:immigration to to the U.S.? Pulling out of Syria? And so on.
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in NE Syria, a Russian armored vehicle deliberately rammed an American military viehicle, leaving 7 US service members with concussions — the week
stuper1
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by stuper1 » Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:59 pm

I didn't read the FA article for lack of time. In the Middle East we should have been out long time ago. We never should have been in. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.

Where in the Constitution does it say that a guy has to show his tax returns in order to be president? If there is a problem with his taxes, the IRS should do something about it, and I'm sure they would in nothing flat. I assume he doesn't want to show his tax returns because there is stuff in there that would be blown out of proportion by the media, and the average Joe would have a hard time comprehending that it's actually no big thing. Probably his effective tax rate is less than 1% or something like that. Kind of like how Obama didn't want his college transcript to get out, and even his birth certificate for quite a while.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by moda0306 » Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:34 pm

pugchief wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 2:19 pm
moda0306 wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 12:42 pm
technovelist wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:46 am


Here's a brief summary:

The most significant thing about Trump that is very different from any other US President in my lifetime is that he has been faced with the following since the day he has been elected, all of which are still ongoing:

1. A coup attempt by the Deep State, the existence of which is now acknowledged even by the New York Times
2. Nonstop 24/7 attacks by the "mainstream media"
3. A completely unconstitutional fake "impeachment inquiry" that affords him none of the rights that the Republicans afforded Clinton and that the Democrats afforded Nixon
4. Obstruction by the Democrat-controlled House, even on legislation that they said they were going to pass (USMCA, for example)

And yet he has still accomplished quite a bit of what he promised his supporters when he ran for election in 2016, including but not limited to the following:

1. Reducing our involvement in overseas wars
2. Reducing red tape to make it easier to operate a business
3. Reducing tensions in Asia (North Korea)
4. Prison reform (The First Step Act)
5. Nominating originalist federal judges
6. The lowest unemployment rate among all minorities since records have been kept

I think with this record and the Democrats' complete lack of achievements during their tenure as the majority in the House, he will be re-elected in a landslide of epic proportions.
A couple questions for you...

How is the impeachment inquiry "completely unconstitutional?"

What would you consider a "landslide of epic proportions," electorally?
So are we to assume that, other than the specifics of what constitutes a landslide (since former attorney Maddy already clarified the constitutional question), you agree with everything in Technovelist's post?
No... not really. Maybe a few points.

And I would also reject your premise that Maddy clarified anything other than her (assuming Maddy is a her) subjective take. I'd imagine if you polled all attorneys, my guess is that millions, if not a majority, would state that Trump has committed impeachable offenses.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by Maddy » Thu Oct 24, 2019 5:37 pm

moda0306 wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:34 pm
And I would also reject your premise that Maddy clarified anything other than her (assuming Maddy is a her) subjective take. I'd imagine if you polled all attorneys, my guess is that millions, if not a majority, would state that Trump has committed impeachable offenses.
Well, those are the incendiary words we keep hearing from the proponents of impeachment, but, curiously, nobody seems to ever articulate exactly what those "impeachable offenses" are. First it was "collusion" with Russia (a term that has no legal meaning), then obstruction of justice (though I never once heard an even remotely viable legal argument there). Those allegations all proved to be baseless--in fact, fraudulent. Then we had an entirely new allegation about collusion with the Ukraine--an allegation that was revealed to have no merit at all with respect to Trump, but that did manage to crack wide open an ongoing criminal enterprise centered in the Ukraine involving many of the most rabid proponents of impeachment. (Wanna take the other side of my bet that the infamous computer server turns up there?) And then we got the anonymous whistleblower's allegations, whatever they were, which once again were thoroughly debunked, in part by a phony transcript later revealed to have literally been made up by a ranking member of the "D" team. I have no idea what new "offenses" are presently being discussed in the secret meetings of the democrat members of Congress, but if they had something, I'm quite sure we would know about it.

The vague, nonspecific allegations of "impeachable offenses" leveled against Trump have been a moving target from the beginning. As far as I can tell, it's never been anything more than specious rhetoric. The dems have, at every juncture, simply thrown linguini against the wall and hoped something--anything--would stick.

I honestly have no idea what particular "offense" you think is impeachable, but after three years of concerted investigation (to the exclusion of virtually all other Congressional business, and after employing every legal and illegal tactic imaginable), the dems still have nothing that can even be voted upon. If you know something they don't, let's hear it.
Last edited by Maddy on Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.
stuper1
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by stuper1 » Thu Oct 24, 2019 7:10 pm

Isn''t tweeting like a 13-year-old girl impeachable? If it's not, it should be. We need a new constitutional amendment just for that.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by Maddy » Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:43 pm

stuper1 wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 7:10 pm
Isn''t tweeting like a 13-year-old girl impeachable?
Only if she gets on the plane.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by drumminj » Thu Oct 24, 2019 9:43 pm

dualstow wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 12:41 pm
drumminj wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:10 am
I'm not sure if I'm this cynical or not, but does it really matter? Even if we have visibility to where the money is going, is the accountability there?

Don't get me wrong - I think transparency is important, but at this stage I'm not convinced it impacts the outcome in any way.
Not just important, but also 100% of what you said you liked about Trump (so far). It seems like a very selective love of transparency.
This thread has moved quite a bit since I was last able to participate, but you're right in that the core principal is transparency. I would however argue that the revelations that the media is biased and corrupt is novel, and put on display during Trump's candidacy and presidency in a way that is undeniable. Same with the corruption and....(sorry I can't think of a better word right now) insanity of the D party, specifically around the issues Maddy raises elsewhere in this thread.

I'd suggest everyone knows/believes/just shrugs about the fact much of our government is corrupt, spends money poorly, and does favors for their friends/those who give them money. I've come to the opinion that simply won't change without a reset -- "the people" simply are unwilling to vote for anything different, either at a state or federal level. Transparency into the misuse of government funds is largely academic at this point -- it happens, everyone knows it happens, and I just don't see how that will change. As shekels says, "who can you vote for that is going to change the Corrupt way Washington operates?"

Off-topic a bit, but while I agree policy-wise with Trump in many ways, part of my hope is rather than people simply "hating" the president, they come to the conclusion we need to drastically shrink the size and scope of government, especially at the federal level. Corruption means little without concentration of power.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by drumminj » Thu Oct 24, 2019 9:48 pm

Maddy wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 12:31 pm
How do you ever achieve accountability if the public isn't allowed to see what's going on? It seems likely that if the public knew where the $21 trillion missing from the DOD and HUD budgets went (see Professor Mark Skidmore's analysis on this), all hell would break loose on the DC establishment, as well as the putative back-door recipient(s) of those funds.
What does "all hell would break loose on the DC establishment" look like? The public has seen/been made aware of all kinds of shenanigans, yet folks don't end up in jail, and we just keep voting the same people into office and don't demand accountability.

I agree with you that accountability requires transparency. However, with the things that _are_ known, the reality is neither the DOJ nor the american public seem to hold folks accountable. So more transparency just means more things we know about that just get accepted as "how it works".

Our culture is devoid of consequences for bad actions on so many levels.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by sophie » Fri Oct 25, 2019 7:16 am

dualstow wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:44 pm
That's why I want to hear what you all think of his record thus far. Not his tweets, but his actions.
That's been the issue all along, hasn't it?

The media stories are always, ALWAYS about his tweets. If you choose to be distracted by that, and consider his tweets to be the sum total representation of his Presidency, then it would be easy to conclude that he's a disaster. And yes, it must be acknowledged that this is not just a deeply annoying habit, but frankly embarrassing and unbecoming. To me, this matters less than actions which will directly impact US citizens and will outlast his Presidency, but then I've always been a substance over style type.

I agree with technovelist that he's accomplished a great deal so far. No, not everything has worked out perfectly - I think the China trade issues could have been handled better for example - but that's a standard very few, if any, Presidents have lived up to. Consider Obama. What did he accomplish? His post-2008 stimulus bill may or may not have been helpful for the economic recovery (I suspect it wasn't). There's Obamacare, which you can argue is good but could have been much better. He also imposed a raft of new regulations that are choking the healthcare system as well as clinical research to death. Obama also did more than any other president to increase covert surveillance on American citizens. Foreign policy-wise, he nailed Osama Bin Laden when he was already pretty much marginalized and conducted those infamous drone attacks. Honestly, that's not a lot. Yet, he's widely considered to have been highly successful. I don't disagree, but if that's the standard of a successful 2-term Presidency then I think it's pretty easy to argue that Trump (with one still-incomplete term) qualifies by a mile.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by dualstow » Fri Oct 25, 2019 7:34 am

sophie wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 7:16 am
dualstow wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:44 pm
That's why I want to hear what you all think of his record thus far. Not his tweets, but his actions.
That's been the issue all along, hasn't it?

The media stories are always, ALWAYS about his tweets.
Oh, I think a good example of media coverage of his actions would be the detention centers full of children.
That’s a tough one. I want him to be tough on illegal immigration and careful about the legal pathway as well, but that was unnecessary. Thankfully, Melania got him to reverse course.
RIP R B G
in NE Syria, a Russian armored vehicle deliberately rammed an American military viehicle, leaving 7 US service members with concussions — the week
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