Is Trump doing a good job?

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Xan
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by Xan » Fri Oct 25, 2019 9:37 am

dualstow wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 7:34 am
sophie wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 7:16 am
dualstow wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:44 pm
That's why I want to hear what you all think of his record thus far. Not his tweets, but his actions.
That's been the issue all along, hasn't it?

The media stories are always, ALWAYS about his tweets.
Oh, I think a good example of media coverage of his actions would be the detention centers full of children.
That’s a tough one. I want him to be tough on illegal immigration and careful about the legal pathway as well, but that was unnecessary. Thankfully, Melania got him to reverse course.
I thought it was a result (a decade+ ago) of a judge ruling that it wasn't OK to incarcerate ostensibly innocent children along with their parents. Voila, child separation.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by dualstow » Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:30 am

If that's the case, why were they effectively incarcerated (with or without parents)?
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by I Shrugged » Fri Oct 25, 2019 4:27 pm

I give him big points for tenacity. Subtract big points for personality. But, he's had the guts to take on the swamp and many deeply entrenched bad policies, and just keep pushing ahead. He's an inflationist, but aren't they all?

I have no doubt that the swamp will make sure he goes down in history as a criminal hack. But seeing this man expose the establishment has been great for me.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by dualstow » Fri Oct 25, 2019 5:09 pm

That’s kind of like what Shekels said.
Did we not know corruption existed before Trump came along? Insisting Obama was not American and then running for office. Did we not know of corruption before that?
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by jhogue » Fri Oct 25, 2019 5:58 pm

I doubt that it matters whether most people think that Trump is doing a good job or not. Consider the following:

Elizabeth Warren supporters are congenitally incapable of accepting that Donald Trump was elected President in 2016.

Bernie Sanders supporters insist that they do not know anyone who voted for Donald Trump.

Bill Maher and his audience really do believe that “the Donald” is Bozo the Clown AND the second coming of Adolf Hitler—without a hint of cognitive dissonance.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by dualstow » Fri Oct 25, 2019 6:04 pm

jhogue wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 5:58 pm
I doubt that it matters whether most people think that Trump is doing a good job or not.
He may very well be re-elected, but in the meantime I’m genuinely interested in your assessment.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by jhogue » Fri Oct 25, 2019 6:36 pm

Your query reminds me of the time that an American reporter asked Chinese premier Chou Enlai what he thought about the French Revolution. He pondered that matter for a moment, and then replied “Too soon to tell.”
“Groucho Marx wrote:
A stock trader asked him, "Groucho, where do you put all your money?" Groucho was said to have replied, "In Treasury bonds", and the trader said, "You can't make much money on those." Groucho said, "You can if you have enough of them!"
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by dualstow » Fri Oct 25, 2019 6:37 pm

hahaha O0
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by sophie » Sat Oct 26, 2019 10:45 am

dualstow wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 7:34 am
sophie wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 7:16 am
dualstow wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:44 pm
That's why I want to hear what you all think of his record thus far. Not his tweets, but his actions.
That's been the issue all along, hasn't it?

The media stories are always, ALWAYS about his tweets.
Oh, I think a good example of media coverage of his actions would be the detention centers full of children.
That’s a tough one. I want him to be tough on illegal immigration and careful about the legal pathway as well, but that was unnecessary. Thankfully, Melania got him to reverse course.
Yes, that's true - so ok, 0.1% of the coverage is about his actions and not tweets. The articles were quite slanted of course, because ICE didn't have a whole lot of options for dealing with the flood of unaccompanied minors being sent across the border. That's the true tragedy but no one talked about that. Because then you'd have to admit that the villains of the piece are the profiteering coyotes and organized crime syndicates, plus the random well-meaning American fools who went down to Central American countries to spread the word about the refugee loophole and help organize the caravans.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by dualstow » Sat Oct 26, 2019 10:54 am

sophie wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 10:45 am
Yes, that's true - so ok, 0.1% of the coverage is about his actions and not tweets.
It depends on the news source. I would agree that much of the news people consume, especially television channels like CNN, focus on easy targets like tweets. And that, of course is a shame.

Of course news on his actions is out there for those who seek it out.

Here’s some more of the same Foreign Affairs article, since 0% is about his tweets.
Each aspect of the Trump administration’s supposed new strategic triangle is misconceived, starting with Iran, a hostile would-be regional hegemon with a well-advanced nuclear program that Washington has been trying to contain for decades. In 2015, U.S. and European diplomats made a major breakthrough by negotiating the ... JCPOA, a classic multilateral arms control agreement ...
By the time Trump entered office, the agreement was functioning well in practice, and its inspections provided a high degree of confidence that Iran was not actively pursuing a nuclear weapons program.

The deal was hardly perfect.
...
So the obvious next step for any incoming administration would have been to build on the JCPOA and tackle the other issues on the docket. Instead, in May 2018, overruling then Secretary of State Rex Tillerson and Secretary of Defense James Mattis and blatantly lying about Iran’s compliance, Trump shredded the agreement.

This was partly due to Trump’s personal obsession with Barack Obama. Anything his predecessor had done had to be undone, and the Iran deal was Obama’s signature accomplishment.
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by shekels » Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:25 am

dualstow wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 10:54 am
sophie wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 10:45 am
Yes, that's true - so ok, 0.1% of the coverage is about his actions and not tweets.
It depends on the news source. I would agree that much of the news people consume, especially television channels like CNN, focus on easy targets like tweets. And that, of course is a shame.

Of course news on his actions is out there for those who seek it out.

Here’s some more of the same Foreign Affairs article, since 0% is about his tweets.
Each aspect of the Trump administration’s supposed new strategic triangle is misconceived, starting with Iran, a hostile would-be regional hegemon with a well-advanced nuclear program that Washington has been trying to contain for decades. In 2015, U.S. and European diplomats made a major breakthrough by negotiating the ... JCPOA, a classic multilateral arms control agreement ...
By the time Trump entered office, the agreement was functioning well in practice, and its inspections provided a high degree of confidence that Iran was not actively pursuing a nuclear weapons program.

The deal was hardly perfect.
...
So the obvious next step for any incoming administration would have been to build on the JCPOA and tackle the other issues on the docket. Instead, in May 2018, overruling then Secretary of State Rex Tillerson and Secretary of Defense James Mattis and blatantly lying about Iran’s compliance, Trump shredded the agreement.

This was partly due to Trump’s personal obsession with Barack Obama. Anything his predecessor had done had to be undone, and the Iran deal was Obama’s signature accomplishment.
From what I understand the JCPOA was with IRAN the US, France, UK, China, Russia and Germany.
So if the U.S pulls out, that still leaves France, UK, China, Russia and Germany and Iran in the agreement right?

Or is the agreement null and void at that point?

If Iran still kept the agreement with the other remaining countries what is the problem?

Except now Iran has broken from a key component.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Re: Is Trump doing a good job?

Post by dualstow » Sat Oct 26, 2019 1:38 pm

oh, Shekels, the agreement is a’shambles.
I’ll write more later, but with the U.S. pulling out, Iran understandably had no reason to continue to keep up their end of the bargain. (which they had been doing).
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