Gyroscopic Investing

Hey friends. So life for the next little while is going to suck quite a bit.

I got a couple traffic tickets this year, and it was enough for ICBC to send me a notice that they're prohibiting me from driving for 5 months. I'm currently in the middle of hiring a lawyer to fight the prohibition. A license suspension for that period of time may cause me to lose my job and livelihood, to say nothing of the impact on my schooling. Hiring a lawyer isn't going to be cheap either.

I'm posting this, because well, you guys are kind of my internet fam jam, and also as a way of being open to any advice anyone here may have.

This has also led me to reflect on the situation in a philosophical way. Harry Browne himself had a rather productive and stoic perspective on hardship in life, and reading some of his material has already assuaged my anxiety somewhat. While I feel like this prohibition is unfair, I'll always remember this Browne quote:

"A great burden was lifted from my shoulders the day I realized that no one owes me anything. For so long as I’d thought there were things I was entitled to, I’d been wearing myself out —physically and emotionally — trying to collect them."

Ray Dalio has also espoused a phenomenally productive life philosophy through his work in Principles. This short miniseries has been really helpful for me in keeping things in perspective and seeing problems as "puzzles." Puzzles that can reward you with gems if you solve them. For me, that puzzle is how to stay happy, healthy, and productive without personal transport.

https://youtu.be/B9XGUpQZY38

It's an amazing miniseries which is just about the best way you can spend 30 minutes if you have it to spare.

Keep me in your thoughts, guys. I'll be needing all the support I can get, and any advice is appreciated.

MangoMan wrote: ↑Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:54 pm Sorry to hear; that sucks.

Not familiar with the laws in Canada or BC, but can you elaborate on why they suspended you? DUI? Speeding? In IL you would have to be convicted of reckless endangerment, DUI, murder with a vehicle, speeding waaay over the limit or some other egregious offense before they would take your license away. Granted, multiple moving violations in a short period of time might qualify also, but they tend to use fines more than suspension for basic naughtiness AFAIK.

Hey there, MangoMan. Thanks for the response.

No criminal offences on my end. I have a 10+ year clean driving record up until the couple of pull overs by the police this year. The first ticket was for switching music tracks on my phone while stopped at an intersection. The second was being pulled over for speeding, and happening to have my cellphone in the cupholder charging instead of being hidden away.

In aggregate it's apparently enough to strip you of your license!

EDIT: to be clear, the speeding incident wasn't even excessive speeding. I got literally the lowest speeding ticket a person can get: $109. Still, "the man" has seen to it that that is enough for a driving ban.

Does anyone have advice on how to shop for a lawyer? I have never done this before and am unfamiliar with how to objectively weigh my options.

Those sound like the kinds of violations that a good lawyer could help you get relief from. However, it won't be cheap. Could be several thousand dollars easy. You might find that paying for Uber/Lyft and bus rides and riding a bike for 5 months is a lot cheaper. Very sorry to hear of your troubles. It sounds like you have a good attitude. I find comfort from reading biographies of people who have overcome substantial difficulties to become successful. I have found that many people who you would never suspect have had to battle things like severe depression or other medical problems. You can always find someone who has it worse off than you and still battled through to get to a better place. Not trying to make light of your situation in any way. It's great that you are looking for ideas to help.

stuper1 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:23 pm Those sound like the kinds of violations that a good lawyer could help you get relief from. However, it won't be cheap. Could be several thousand dollars easy. You might find that paying for Uber/Lyft and bus rides and riding a bike for 5 months is a lot cheaper. Very sorry to hear of your troubles. It sounds like you have a good attitude. I find comfort from reading biographies of people who have overcome substantial difficulties to become successful. I have found that many people who you would never suspect have had to battle things like severe depression or other medical problems. You can always find someone who has it worse off than you and still battled through to get to a better place. Not trying to make light of your situation in any way. It's great that you are looking for ideas to help.

Thanks for your input. I'm currently in the middle of organizing rides from family/friends to get to further destinations when possible.

Unfortunately, no ridesharing services in Vancouver! Oof!

You are right about reflecting on other people's circumstances that are worse than oneself, and seeing how they have thrived. This Stephen Hawking video has been amazing.

https://youtu.be/VYxjumUhji0

MangoMan wrote: ↑Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:48 pm I agree with Stuper. Taking your license away for 5 months for what amounts to cell phone violations seems extreme. A good lawyer that deals with traffic offenses (maybe a DUI guy?) should be able to get you off with some fines and a hefty legal bill.

I sure hope that this is the case. I have talked to several lawyers this afternoon. The consensus seems to be that through a professional legal defence, a reduction to a two month ban is a reasonable expectation. Maybe 3; maybe 1; maybe even revoked entirely if i'm extremely lucky.

Still, the prices quoted have been all over the map and I don't know how to ascertain "value" for the dollar I am spending. So far I've been quoted everything from $2,500 for a senior lawyer to $500 for an articled student.

Sometimes, when something bad occurs in my life, I enjoy some solace knowing that I can help other people out who are in the same situation, or help them avoid it altogether. So please, take heart knowing that you've reminded me how fortunate I am not to live in Canada.

Kriegsspiel wrote: ↑Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:50 pm Sometimes, when something bad occurs in my life, I enjoy some solace knowing that I can help other people out who are in the same situation, or help them avoid it altogether. So please, take heart knowing that you've reminded me how fortunate I am not to live in Canada.

Gee, thanks.

NO

THANK YOU

Kriegsspiel wrote: ↑Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:57 pm NO

THANK YOU

I know you're joking, but really not in the mood. Maybe in another thread, man.

Doesn't Vancouver have a reasonably good public transit system? I'm not understanding the needing to corral family and friends carpools. Down here in Houston, yes... but Vancouver? Where do you live (approximately), where do you work (approximately)? Disclosure - I am a transit geek.

Smith,

I don't have any good advice (or bad advice, for that matter) for you; I just wanted to let you know that I am pulling for you and that you seem like the caliber of person who will get through this just fine. I hope you will keep us posted!

ochotona wrote: ↑Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:00 pm Doesn't Vancouver have a reasonably good public transit system? I'm not understanding the needing to corral family and friends carpools. Down here in Houston, yes... but Vancouver? Where do you live (approximately), where do you work (approximately)? Disclosure - I am a transit geek.

I will PM you so as to not reveal too much information publicly.

Long story short, I have a very weird work and lifestyle and traveling constantly is a big part of it. In addition to my regular job I am also a performer in music, stand up comedy, and theatre. I will have to recalibrate what I can reasonably expect to do for a while.

geaux saints wrote: ↑Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:03 pm Smith,

I don't have any good advice (or bad advice, for that matter) for you; I just wanted to let you know that I am pulling for you and that you seem like the caliber of person who will get through this just fine. I hope you will keep us posted!

Thank you. I really appreciate the thoughts and support. I am unsure of what I am going to do, but I am trying my best to stay composed.

Smith1776 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:02 pm

MangoMan wrote: ↑Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:48 pm I agree with Stuper. Taking your license away for 5 months for what amounts to cell phone violations seems extreme. A good lawyer that deals with traffic offenses (maybe a DUI guy?) should be able to get you off with some fines and a hefty legal bill.

I sure hope that this is the case. I have talked to several lawyers this afternoon. The consensus seems to be that through a professional legal defence, a reduction to a two month ban is a reasonable expectation. Maybe 3; maybe 1; maybe even revoked entirely if i'm extremely lucky.

Still, the prices quoted have been all over the map and I don't know how to ascertain "value" for the dollar I am spending. So far I've been quoted everything from $2,500 for a senior lawyer to $500 for an articled student.

There is that saying, "You get what you pay for." But not always true in the case of professional services. That $500 option could possibly provide equal or better services than the $2,500. Or, maybe not.

I just found this after a quick Bing search: https://www.jonwelbornlaw.com/7-things- ... et-lawyer/.

I'd encourage you to do a more thorough search.

And, I am astounded at the severity of the penalty compared to the actual violations.

Getting back to the lawyer search....I'd also talk / email / communicate with everyone you can to tell them your situation to see if you can get any recommendations based upon their personal experience.

Good luck! Hoping for the best for you: Least legal fees plus the entire thing revoked!

Vinny

vnatale wrote: ↑Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:37 pm There is that saying, "You get what you pay for." But not always true in the case of professional services. That $500 option could possibly provide equal or better services than the $2,500. Or, maybe not.

I just found this after a quick Bing search: https://www.jonwelbornlaw.com/7-things- ... et-lawyer/.

I'd encourage you to do a more thorough search.

And, I am astounded at the severity of the penalty compared to the actual violations.

Getting back to the lawyer search....I'd also talk / email / communicate with everyone you can to tell them your situation to see if you can get any recommendations based upon their personal experience.

Good luck! Hoping for the best for you: Least legal fees plus the entire thing revoked!

Vinny

Thank you for the kind words.

I am coming to a tentative conclusion that, beyond experience, one of the key factors to consider with hiring a lawyer is how much time they spend with you. The more time they spend with you and talking to you, the more they can personalize their argument to your particular circumstances. This is in contrast to a lawyer that simply uses boiler plate arguments to defend you.

I am now calling back many of the lawyers I have spoken with to ask them this key question.

Missed this whole thread until tonight.

Keep us posted, Smithers, and good luck!

Buy a good road bike and commute with your quads, bro.

Tortoise wrote: ↑Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:16 pm Buy a good road bike and commute with your quads, bro.

I appreciate the suggestion, but the time it would take for me to bike to and from work would be totally unfeasible. It would be like a doing a marathon everyday, where travel times exceeded even the length of my shifts. Not practical unfortunately.

It was mostly a tongue-in-cheek suggestion. I figured your commutes were probably way too far for cycling to be feasible.

Best of luck fighting the citations or figuring out how to deal with the 5 months without a driver’s license. That would stress me out, too.

Sorry to hear that Smith, it is a little shocking how heavy handed that judgment is.

For $500 I think I'd go the lawyer route to get 3 months shaved off that suspension, but I'm not sure I'd do it for $2500. That buys a lot of rideshares. Have you checked into ridesharing in Vancouver lately? I heard they're finally allowing Uber and Lyft in. And, Vancouver has a pretty good public transportation system, which I've also used.

Why don't you turn this major downer (and believe me, the lawyer route will NOT be fun) into a positive exploration of how to get around in Vancouver without a car? Biking, taxi, rideshares, bus, trains, walking etc are all out there for you to discover. The city even has bike sharing (like NYC does) so you don't necessarily have to buy or store a bike. And, rideshare companies typically have frequent-flier type passes which help limit the costs.

Who knows, you may end up deciding you don't need a car after all! That's already a financially realistic choice in many cities - certainly here in NYC, but also (surprisingly) in Los Angeles, where many people have just given up trying to drive due to the insane levels of congestion. And Vancouver is also known as a city that is car-free-compatible.

The judge will let you drive if you need to for work. Maybe ask on Nextdoor for a lawyer rec.

Also public transit + ebike/scooter. And/or walking, it might be easier than you think to walk a couple miles, and you'll lose weight

Just a quick post about how my situation so far:

1) I have often thought to myself: the things in life that seem like they'll be so great, are often not that great when you finally achieve/acquire them. And the things in life that you think are so bad, are often not that bad once they've actually happened. I have to say that this is indeed the case with this license suspension. I've had to make some adjustments, but the world didn't end. I am still living and breathing, and I am still pursuing my goals. Life just sort of goes on.

2) I have experienced an outpouring of generosity from friends and family offering to help me. Honestly, this incident has made me feel more loved than my last birthday party, special event, etc. This has spurred me on to wanting to pay this generosity forward next time someone needs help. I am incredibly grateful to everyone offering to lend me a hand.

3) Waiting before hiring a lawyer has been a good call. After the initial panic, I am able to make a more rational decision now that I have better perspective.

Will let you guys know how this develops over time.

Smith1776 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 12, 2019 2:33 am Just a quick post about how my situation so far:

1) I have often thought to myself: the things in life that seem like they'll be so great, are often not that great when you finally achieve/acquire them. And the things in life that you think are so bad, are often not that bad once they've actually happened. I have to say that this is indeed the case with this license suspension. I've had to make some adjustments, but the world didn't end. I am still living and breathing, and I am still pursuing my goals. Life just sort of goes on.

2) I have experienced an outpouring of generosity from friends and family offering to help me. Honestly, this incident has made me feel more loved than my last birthday party, special event, etc. This has spurred me on to wanting to pay this generosity forward next time someone needs help. I am incredibly grateful to everyone offering to lend me a hand.

3) Waiting before hiring a lawyer has been a good call. After the initial panic, I am able to make a more rational decision now that I have better perspective.

Will let you guys know how this develops over time.

How are you getting to work in the meantime?

Ebike is a great idea! Or a minibike (motor-driven) that doesn't require a license like a full-on motorcycle.

Those can turn what might seem to be a painful, long bike commute into something very doable. And like motorcycles you can legally weave around cars so in heavy traffic you probably might even get to work faster.

Assuming of course they're not banned in Vancouver the way they are in NYC. I think NYC banned them because they didn't want competition for the subways or the city's bikeshare system.

dualstow wrote: ↑Thu Dec 12, 2019 6:32 am
How are you getting to work in the meantime?

My current commute is a mish mash of transit, rides from friends, rides from family, and changing my availability for work to more opportune times.

It has not been a great experience, but I've been able to make it work so far. Again, everyone around me has just been so generous with helping me.

I may have mentioned this before: but I actually do quite a bit of performing such as stand up comedy. I have a friend from the class that I took who's willing to book gigs for the same events as me so that she can always give me a ride. Serendipitous and so grateful.

EDIT: I will add that I am also incredibly grateful for the stability of the PP in times like this. I am having to drawdown on my savings during this time in order to fund unexpected costs that are connected to this incident. I can't imagine how much harder this situation would be with a more volatile portfolio.