Signatures

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pugchief
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Re: Signatures

Post by pugchief » Mon Dec 30, 2019 8:56 am

dualstow wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:45 am
As long as Hasids are going to dress conspicuously (i.e. forever), I think they had better get some armed bodyguards dressed the same way. Can’t depend on the gov’t to protect them.
You'll notice that in the TX church shooting, the attacker was killed by members with concealed carry, and limited the damage to only 2 dead. Would have been a lot more dead if that was NY.
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Re: Signatures

Post by sophie » Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:52 am

pugchief wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 8:56 am
dualstow wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:45 am
As long as Hasids are going to dress conspicuously (i.e. forever), I think they had better get some armed bodyguards dressed the same way. Can’t depend on the gov’t to protect them.
You'll notice that in the TX church shooting, the attacker was killed by members with concealed carry, and limited the damage to only 2 dead. Would have been a lot more dead if that was NY.
I think dualstow was talking about hiring security guards, who can carry concealed weapons. They are already getting help from the Guardian Angels. So thankful they are still around - and now getting more active!

As far as guns...the Angels can't carry them and not sure how effective they'd be in a shooting situation. Note though that the violent attacks so far have involved fists & knives, not guns. It might be that (as the studies on this suggest) there is a positive net effect of tight gun restrictions. For every Texas church saved by armed congregants, there are probably at least as many other people who DIDN'T get shot by the guns that their attackers were not able to get hold of. I get the Second Amendment and all, it's just that I don't know if the self-defense argument really holds up.
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Re: Signatures

Post by Smith1776 » Mon Dec 30, 2019 2:42 pm

I've never fired a gun before in my life. I've got mixed feelings about carrying one everyday if I lived in a place that allowed it. It seems to me that the use of a gun, even for legitimate self-defence purposes almost always results in bad consequences for the user somehow. The legal ramifications, the potential PTSD, etc. But, I suppose if it can save your life...

Either way, I ought to go to the local shooting range and try one out some time... I've fired plenty of virtual guns. Does that count?
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Re: Signatures

Post by dualstow » Mon Dec 30, 2019 2:48 pm

Smith1776 wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 2:42 pm
Either way, I ought to go to the local shooting range and try one out some time... I've fired plenty of virtual guns. Does that count?
Yes, it counts as a minus. O0 As does anything one picks up from TV and movies.
I have had some shooting lessons, but I have reservations about carrying one around. When you have a hammer...

ADDED:
sophie wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:52 am
pugchief wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 8:56 am
dualstow wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:45 am
As long as Hasids are going to dress conspicuously (i.e. forever), I think they had better get some armed bodyguards dressed the same way. Can’t depend on the gov’t to protect them.
You'll notice that in the TX church shooting, the attacker was killed by members with concealed carry, and limited the damage to only 2 dead. Would have been a lot more dead if that was NY.
I think dualstow was talking about hiring security guards, who can carry concealed weapons.
Indeed. Licensed professionals who carry concealed and who can react relatively calmly.

Glad to hear about the Guardian Angels. I remember my dad pointing them out to me when I was a kid on the subway in the 70s.
Last edited by dualstow on Mon Dec 30, 2019 2:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Signatures

Post by Xan » Mon Dec 30, 2019 2:50 pm

Smith1776 wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 2:42 pm
I've never fired a gun before in my life. I've got mixed feelings about carrying one everyday if I lived in a place that allowed it. It seems to me that the use of a gun, even for legitimate self-defence purposes almost always results in bad consequences for the user somehow. The legal ramifications, the potential PTSD, etc. But, I suppose if it can save your life...
The only time you're firing a gun at someone is in order to stop a lethal threat to you or someone else. Worrying about PTSD in such a situation is a bit silly. Better than being dead, no?

It sounds like you're thinking of this as a movie script, where you've assumed that action X is bad and so there'll be some kind of comeuppance for doing it.
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Re: Signatures

Post by Smith1776 » Mon Dec 30, 2019 2:53 pm

dualstow wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 2:48 pm
Smith1776 wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 2:42 pm
Either way, I ought to go to the local shooting range and try one out some time... I've fired plenty of virtual guns. Does that count?
Yes, it counts as a minus. O0 As does anything one picks up from TV and movies.
I have had some shooting lessons, but I have reservations about carrying one around. When you have a hammer...
Right, I've heard of some pretty bad stories about what carrying even a legitimate weapon for self-defence can lead to.

Having a gun can make one overconfident and more likely to stand ground rather than avoiding an altercation. This can then make a violent incident and resulting injury more likely.

I wonder if my local gun shop sells anything James Bond-ian.
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Re: Signatures

Post by dualstow » Mon Dec 30, 2019 2:55 pm

Smith1776 wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 2:53 pm
I wonder if my local gun shop sells anything James Bond-ian.
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Re: Signatures

Post by Smith1776 » Mon Dec 30, 2019 2:56 pm

Xan wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 2:50 pm
Smith1776 wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 2:42 pm
I've never fired a gun before in my life. I've got mixed feelings about carrying one everyday if I lived in a place that allowed it. It seems to me that the use of a gun, even for legitimate self-defence purposes almost always results in bad consequences for the user somehow. The legal ramifications, the potential PTSD, etc. But, I suppose if it can save your life...
The only time you're firing a gun at someone is in order to stop a lethal threat to you or someone else. Worrying about PTSD in such a situation is a bit silly. Better than being dead, no?

It sounds like you're thinking of this as a movie script, where you've assumed that action X is bad and so there'll be some kind of comeuppance for doing it.
Yeah, I honestly just mistrust myself somewhat in this regard.

I feel like I'd be the guy who'd underreact and not use it when I should have (costing lives), and then overreact by using it when I shouldn't have (also costing lives).

I'm pretty mild mannered, honestly. Someone with steadier nerves ought to have the guns.
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Re: Signatures

Post by Xan » Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:52 pm

Smith1776 wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 2:56 pm
Xan wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 2:50 pm
Smith1776 wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 2:42 pm
I've never fired a gun before in my life. I've got mixed feelings about carrying one everyday if I lived in a place that allowed it. It seems to me that the use of a gun, even for legitimate self-defence purposes almost always results in bad consequences for the user somehow. The legal ramifications, the potential PTSD, etc. But, I suppose if it can save your life...
The only time you're firing a gun at someone is in order to stop a lethal threat to you or someone else. Worrying about PTSD in such a situation is a bit silly. Better than being dead, no?

It sounds like you're thinking of this as a movie script, where you've assumed that action X is bad and so there'll be some kind of comeuppance for doing it.
Yeah, I honestly just mistrust myself somewhat in this regard.

I feel like I'd be the guy who'd underreact and not use it when I should have (costing lives), and then overreact by using it when I shouldn't have (also costing lives).

I'm pretty mild mannered, honestly. Someone with steadier nerves ought to have the guns.
Understood. But I'm not so sure you're in the clear in the "underreact" situation here. If you're in the situation you described, where you using a firearm saves lives, then have you really absolved yourself by having made an earlier decision to not carry one?

I'm really just thinking out loud here. I'm not arguing that you should carry. Probably nobody should who isn't comfortable doing so.
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Re: Signatures

Post by Smith1776 » Mon Dec 30, 2019 4:16 pm

Xan wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:52 pm

Understood. But I'm not so sure you're in the clear in the "underreact" situation here. If you're in the situation you described, where you using a firearm saves lives, then have you really absolved yourself by having made an earlier decision to not carry one?

I'm really just thinking out loud here. I'm not arguing that you should carry. Probably nobody should who isn't comfortable doing so.
That's a really good point actually.

I sometimes carry around a little bottle of pepper spray (euphemistically marketed as "dog spray") with me when I go out and about. Say, when I know I'm going to be in downtown Vancouver late at night.

Effective up to 12 feet and non-lethal! It's probably the sweet spot for me in terms of what I'm comfortable with for self-defence.
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Re: Signatures

Post by Kriegsspiel » Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:02 pm

Smith1776 wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 4:16 pm
I sometimes carry around a little bottle of pepper spray (euphemistically marketed as "dog spray") with me when I go out and about. Say, when I know I'm going to be in downtown Vancouver late at night.

Effective up to 12 feet and non-lethal! It's probably the sweet spot for me in terms of what I'm comfortable with for self-defence.
I'm not certain, but I think that is illegal in Canada.
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Re: Signatures

Post by Smith1776 » Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:08 pm

Kriegsspiel wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:02 pm
Smith1776 wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 4:16 pm
I sometimes carry around a little bottle of pepper spray (euphemistically marketed as "dog spray") with me when I go out and about. Say, when I know I'm going to be in downtown Vancouver late at night.

Effective up to 12 feet and non-lethal! It's probably the sweet spot for me in terms of what I'm comfortable with for self-defence.
I'm not certain, but I think that is illegal in Canada.
Bought from Canadian Tire, and clearly marketed for every day carry... only against potential dog attacks of course! ^-^ ^-^ ^-^ ^-^ ^-^ ^-^ ^-^ :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X


https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/sabr ... p.html#srp

EDIT: I must say, between this and the B.S. driving stuff I've been going through, I'm really starting to not like Canada.

EDIT EDIT: The global gold price not being denominated in our dollars doesn't help either. >:(
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