Americans of Iranian descent

[ochotona]

It is an intolerable way to treat American citizens for whom there is no probable cause for the commission of a crime. Full stop.

habeas corpus !

Who said anything about being a citizen of another country? How does that get brought into the discussion. I was born in Chicago. My parents were legal immigrants. But if we go to war with China, how will my countrymen treat me?

You are my countryman! And you're not doing that well thus far.

[Tortoise]

If you get sassy and argumentative with the wrong bureaucrat, you're likely to get your ass detained for a while -- no matter what your ethnicity is.

Given that most of the Iranian-Americans who were detained were young adults, who as a group tend to be less mature and more argumentative, it's quite possible that a few of them got uppity and just pissed off the wrong bureaucrat.

We probably don't have all of the relevant facts here. There are at least two sides to every story.

[ochotona]

If you get sassy and argumentative with the wrong bureaucrat, you're likely to get your ass detained for a while -- no matter what your ethnicity is.

I hate bureaucrats with guns. I went to HS with a guy who went into CBP, and he was and is a psycho. All of this stuff you hear about FB pages where CBP "fans" were discussing raping AOC and all... I totally believe it. This guy thinks and speaks just like that. I just cut-off my relationship with him, even though we were close when we were kids.

[dualstow]

Who said anything about being a citizen of another country? How does that get brought into the discussion. I was born in Chicago. My parents were legal immigrants. But if we go to war with China, how will my countrymen treat me?

You are my countryman! And you're not doing that well thus far.

“How does that get brought into the discussion”
I don’t know how it could not be.

How will your countrymen treat you? Certainly, some ignorant ones will treat you poorly. My wife is of Chinese extraction, and I’ve thought about that scenario now and then. (And, it probably goes without saying: Jews are maligned all over the world because of the actions of Israel, an ally. It doesn’t even take a war).

[Smith1776]

Is anyone successfully using Veracrypt in MacOS Catalina?

Never used Veracrypt, but I am not impressed how Catalina broke a crap ton of my third party apps.

My fault really -- I should have read reviews on how Catalina's 64-bit nature would break many 32-bit games in particular.

[Kbg]

Sometimes I think people are just stupid...merits of a specific case aside, if you are going through security in ANY country, be chill, answer the questions politely, just don’t mess with these people. They have the power to make your life miserable for short to long periods of time...shorter is better.

[ochotona]

Dualstow, the oldest trope in the book applied to Chinese, Jews, now Iranians is whipping out the "well, they better be glad they're here and not there"; AS IF that should make it acceptable to mal-treat US Citizens. This is intertwined with all of the dual-loyalty bullshit that even got applied to President Kennedy and Catholicism for crying out loud.

It's never correct to treat US Citizens that way the people crossing at Blaine WA were treated.

https://news.google.com/search?q=blain% ... id=US%3Aen

In the words of AA, that's "stinking thinking". It's right up there with, "Well, look at what she was wearing, she deserved to be grabbed. She should be glad that she gets the attention from the fellas", "or a good girl would have nothing to fear from men out in public, she must have done something to provoke them".

STOP. Just stop.

[Xan]

Dualstow, the oldest trope in the book applied to Chinese, Jews, now Iranians is whipping out the "well, they better be glad they're here and not there"; AS IF that should make it acceptable to mal-treat US Citizens. This is intertwined with all of the dual-loyalty bullshit that even got applied to President Kennedy and Catholicism for crying out loud.

It's never correct to treat US Citizens that way the people crossing at Blaine WA were treated.

https://news.google.com/search?q=blain% ... id=US%3Aen

In the words of AA, that's "stinking thinking". It's right up there with, "Well, look at what she was wearing, she deserved to be grabbed. She should be glad that she gets the attention from the fellas", "or a good girl would have nothing to fear from men out in public, she must have done something to provoke them".

STOP. Just stop.

ooookay. So what do you want us to do?

[dualstow]

I didn’t mean any offense, ocho, so if you believe me then let’s just deescalate a little bit here.
I don’t know what the ideal balance is between security and making people feel violated — cf stop-and-frisk — but I suspect that it varies from individual to individual.

[dualstow]

Maybe it’s too soon to add this inconvenient truth and its companion unpopular opinion, but you’re a big boy and I think you can handle it:

The United States was built by white, Christian Anglo-Saxons. All kinds of people from all over the world have contributed significantly, but they were able to do so because of the framework provided by said Anglos. It feels funny just typing that in this decade of ‘wokeness’ and ‘white privilege’, but it shouldn’t. Water boils at 212ºF, Wednesday follows Tuesday, and that’s who founded America.

Does that give the descendants of those fine people the right to crap on the rest of us? Certainly not. But...it happens from time to time. Sometimes a select group of ignorant people does it to a small group of innocent people. I would like to think we’re making progress. Slavery has been abolished. The Klan is something of a joke in all but a few backwater holdouts. Gay people can get married and lower their taxes.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that it happened to the Irish and the Italians first, US citizens. How quickly we forget, because they’re now considered to be white.

Still, there’s a lot of rough stuff going on, and sometimes it’s even perpetrated by our own government. That’s why we’ve got checks and balances, and at least two parties to fight things out, as you know.

Ocho, you were mainly talking about US citizens, but maybe there’s someone out there even more liberal than you who thinks it is “intolerable” that Mexico is now turning migrant caravans away before they even get to the States. There is someone even more liberal than that person, who thinks there shouldn’t be any political borders, period. You’re not “right.” You’re just another person with an opinion somewhere on the spectrum, as are we all.

As someone who was born here, I would certainly be pissed off if I were detained and questioned in my own country, for ten hours. But, I am ready for it to happen. If I feel I am wronged, maybe I will be inspired to protest, to support the political opposition, and so on. Now you’ll want to say, “Because I’m not Iranian, I didn’t speak up when they came for the Iranians.” Well sorry, but I don’t think it’s gotten to that point yet.

You mentioned the accusation of dual loyalty. It’s already happened. A friend blurted it out in college, and I couldn’t believe it. Diane Rehm suggested that Bernie Sanders secret held Israeli citizenship and so on. Yeah it sucks, but what is going to do, sue her? Sticks and stones. (Actually, I get offended all the time, but it’s short-lived).

When they start deporting American-born Iranians who have committed no crimes, then I will start to panic. Not before.

[Libertarian666]

I'm a libertarian, as I have stated many times before, so I'm not in favor of border enforcement as a theoretical matter.

But unfortunately open borders and a welfare state aren't compatible. Neither are open borders and a powerful government that intervenes in other countries' business.

Once we get rid of the welfare state and the US government stops interfering in other countries' business, then we can have open borders.

Not now, though.

[boglerdude]

> Once we get rid of the welfare state

So the poor are allowed to die on the street?

[Libertarian666]

> Once we get rid of the welfare state

So the poor are allowed to die on the street?

Have you ever heard of charity?
You should google it.