Coronavirus General Discussion

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Libertarian666
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Libertarian666 »

vnatale wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 12:53 pm
jalanlong wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:26 am
WiseOne wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 10:58 am In outdoors conditions like this, the mask is completely pointless except for virtue signaling. I take it off when possible, but that's not always socially acceptable.
So this morning while I am driving and I see a man out jogging by himself in suburbia in a "feels like" temperature of 93 and he is wearing a mask, should I assume he is virtue signaling or does he just really doesn't understand why he is doing it?

This morning when I went to a store and made a purchase, the cashier who took my credit card immediately put hand sanitizer on after handing the card back to me. I am assuming she does that with every single customer and every single card, not just mine. That is one of the interesting things about this is that now all of the sudden people are worried about everything that they touch. Shopping cart handles, door handles, credit cards etc. For however many years they were alive most people did not care about getting germs and then suddenly they will die if the touch anything that I touched. Even the CDC says catching any sort of illness from a credit card is highly unlikely. I am quite sure that the cashier does 100 other things every day that are more dangerous than touching my credit card. Do you think that 2 years from now people are still going to be germophobes or is this just a temporary thing? I mean we are almost 6 months into this now.
Temporary.

Remember "Never forget 9/11"?

It's been forgotten and we've all gone back to our normal lives aside from what you have to go through when you are flying.

Vinny
I haven't forgotten it.
I still want an actual investigation to find out who set the charges.
Like these people: www.ae911truth.org.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by WiseOne »

vnatale wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 3:34 pm
flyingpylon wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 1:55 pm
vnatale wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 12:53 pm Temporary.

Remember "Never forget 9/11"?

It's been forgotten and we've all gone back to our normal lives aside from what you have to go through when you are flying.

Vinny
Wow, are you kidding? The Patriot Act, for starters...
And, what else? How has The Patriot Act affected your day-to-day life? After 9/11 everything was supposed to have different, to have changed, In the summer of 2002 I was on subway cars in New York City with police in them carrying heavy duty semi-automatic rifles. By the summer of 2003 the presence of the police was long gone.

Vinny
I just ignored this earlier as the usual Vinny troll-bait, but since it's been getting a response....

Vinny I gather you haven't been on a plane lately? Pre-COVID I mean. You know, the TSA, the wonky machine that takes dirty pictures of you, the thing about having to take off your shoes, belt and jacket, and the whole thing about the liquids. I'd say that's a pretty big change since 9/11. Before that event, you could get to the airport 15 minutes before your flight and be confident you could make it.

Not to mention the government surveillance that Edward Snowden warned us about, the FISA courts blowing a giant hole in the Constitution, and Guantanamo. All still alive and well last I checked. And oh yes, there were these wars in Iraq and Afghanistan whose consequences are still with us.

Maybe these things have become the new normal, but I doubt that "forgotten" is the right word to describe it.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Smith1776 »

WiseOne wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:42 pm
I just ignored this earlier as the usual Vinny troll-bait, but since it's been getting a response....

Vinny I gather you haven't been on a plane lately? Pre-COVID I mean. You know, the TSA, the wonky machine that takes dirty pictures of you, the thing about having to take off your shoes, belt and jacket, and the whole thing about the liquids. I'd say that's a pretty big change since 9/11. Before that event, you could get to the airport 15 minutes before your flight and be confident you could make it.

Not to mention the government surveillance that Edward Snowden warned us about, the FISA courts blowing a giant hole in the Constitution, and Guantanamo. All still alive and well last I checked. And oh yes, there were these wars in Iraq and Afghanistan whose consequences are still with us.

Maybe these things have become the new normal, but I doubt that "forgotten" is the right word to describe it.
I mentally salute Snowden every time I read/hear his name. A true hero.
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vnatale
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by vnatale »

WiseOne wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:42 pm
vnatale wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 3:34 pm
flyingpylon wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 1:55 pm
vnatale wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 12:53 pm Temporary.

Remember "Never forget 9/11"?

It's been forgotten and we've all gone back to our normal lives aside from what you have to go through when you are flying.

Vinny
Wow, are you kidding? The Patriot Act, for starters...
And, what else? How has The Patriot Act affected your day-to-day life? After 9/11 everything was supposed to have different, to have changed, In the summer of 2002 I was on subway cars in New York City with police in them carrying heavy duty semi-automatic rifles. By the summer of 2003 the presence of the police was long gone.

Vinny
I just ignored this earlier as the usual Vinny troll-bait, but since it's been getting a response....

Vinny I gather you haven't been on a plane lately? Pre-COVID I mean. You know, the TSA, the wonky machine that takes dirty pictures of you, the thing about having to take off your shoes, belt and jacket, and the whole thing about the liquids. I'd say that's a pretty big change since 9/11. Before that event, you could get to the airport 15 minutes before your flight and be confident you could make it.

Not to mention the government surveillance that Edward Snowden warned us about, the FISA courts blowing a giant hole in the Constitution, and Guantanamo. All still alive and well last I checked. And oh yes, there were these wars in Iraq and Afghanistan whose consequences are still with us.

Maybe these things have become the new normal, but I doubt that "forgotten" is the right word to describe it.
I guess you must have missed what I'd written above.

I don't see the affects of 9/11 on my daily life nor do i hear people discussing them. And, I did state the major effect on flying.

Our wars are currently fought by professional armies, therefore their costs are borne by an extremely tiny portion of our population.

Finally, "Never Forget 9/11" implies keeping it always in mind. And, when that phrase arose, it was with the thought that life as we had prior known it was never going to be the same. There was life pre-9/11 and now we were going to be living in a life post-9/11.

Where each of you live, on each 9/11 anniversary how many articles do your local newspapers devote to it? Are there any public commemorations (if that is even the right word) similar to local towns / cities having public ceremonies for Memorial Day, Armistice Day? Do you have numerous conversations that day about 9/11 with various people?

I'll certainly never forget it since the day before, on 9/10/01, I was in the Empire State Building and was looking at those two towers while on the boat at 5 PM that night (little knowing they'd only be still standing for about 16 or so more hours). When it happened I was 20 miles north in Yonkers and ran into someone who told me he'd seen one of the planes go into one of the buildings. There were jet planes flying overhead and traffic headed north on the Major Deagan was jam packed.

So, I'll certainly never forget it that way. But on the anniversary of that day, I see little discussion of it.

It there a way of doing a search of posts here from 9/11/19?

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by drumminj »

Tortoise wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 4:34 pm That's right. My recollection is that prior to 9/11, theme parks, big concerts, etc. generally didn't open people's bags and purses to search through them as they entered. After 9/11 they did. Even now, almost 20 years later, they still do.
Yep, I often have to find a way to "hide" my pocket knife that I daily carry. Into concerts that allow bottles of wine, corkscrews, and cheese knives. But a 2.5" folding knife? Put it back in the car >:(
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by drumminj »

WiseOne wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:42 pm I just ignored this earlier as the usual Vinny troll-bait, but since it's been getting a response....

Vinny I gather you haven't been on a plane lately? Pre-COVID I mean. You know, the TSA, the wonky machine that takes dirty pictures of you, the thing about having to take off your shoes, belt and jacket, and the whole thing about the liquids. I'd say that's a pretty big change since 9/11. Before that event, you could get to the airport 15 minutes before your flight and be confident you could make it
I always opt out of the machine, which of course means I get "punished" by being made to wait for 5-10 minutes while they find someone not "busy" to pat me down and give my testicles a good cupping. Because, how dare I not go through the "easy" way.

I still remember travelling to europe, and starting to take my boots off (metal shank) when going up to security as I've been conditioned in the US, and the military guys with semi-auto rifles just laughing at me.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by vnatale »

Found on Facebook....Vinny


Since I have thought about it overnight I have decided to comply with the mask mandates. After all I want to be a great Patriot and American and definitely don’t want to be selfish. So if it saves lives I’ll do it. But I need guidance from the experts on here since I am obviously clueless. Please help.
QUESTION(s):
1) After shopping at the local grocery store, do we leave the masks on once we leave or does the virus just stay in the stores?
- If we leave it on, then for how long?
- How many miles can I drive before it is safe to remove the mask?
2) What about my fingers, arms, legs, head, neck and toes? Should I disinfect them BEFORE or AFTER I remove my mask? After all they were exposed at the store.
2.1) if I touch my mask do I have to sanitize my hands
2.2) now I contaminated my hand sanitizer bottle . What do I do?
3) When we arrive home from the grocery store do we disinfect the goods and bags BEFORE we bring them inside or AFTER?
- Do I put the mask back on?
4) Once we have the goods inside do we disinfect the entire car or just the trunk?
5) Do we need to disinfect our counter tops, pantries, refrigerator, entire kitchen, the dogs (they always sniff the bags) doors we touched, the garage, driveway and street?
6) What should we do about the food and goods purchased? Do we need to disinfect all these items as well? After all they were in the grocery store exposed to all these nasty viruses.
7) What should I do with my homemade fancy cloth mask? Do I burn it? It was also exposed to the nasty virus at the store?
8)What about the clothes I wore to the store? Is disinfecting them ok? Do I disinfect them in the grocery store parking lot or in my garage?
9) What about my eyes? Are there special eye drops I need to take? Where do I get those?
10) After consuming the goods from the store do I need a biohazard bag for the waste? (Both trash and poop)
11) Is the juice and milk I bought safe to drink or should i disinfect it first?
12) Is there a specific shampoo to use if I get a hair cut to disinfect my hair?
13) My meds...what about my meds? Are they safe to orally consume or should I disinfect them too?
14) If I shop at a hardware store should I disinfect each screw, nut and bolt BEFORE or AFTER I put them in my project?
15) I want to paint my room but I am not sure if I should disinfect the paint BEFORE or AFTER I apply it to the walls.
16) What if I forgot to follow any of the above do I call the fire department, CDC or psychiatrist?
I'm confused..
Copy and paste to share. I got this from someone else....I did not create this
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by shekels »

vnatale wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:08 am Found on Facebook....Vinny


Since I have thought about it overnight I have decided to comply with the mask mandates. After all I want to be a great Patriot and American and definitely don’t want to be selfish. So if it saves lives I’ll do it. But I need guidance from the experts on here since I am obviously clueless. Please help.
QUESTION(s):
1) After shopping at the local grocery store, do we leave the masks on once we leave or does the virus just stay in the stores?
- If we leave it on, then for how long?
- How many miles can I drive before it is safe to remove the mask?
2) What about my fingers, arms, legs, head, neck and toes? Should I disinfect them BEFORE or AFTER I remove my mask? After all they were exposed at the store.
2.1) if I touch my mask do I have to sanitize my hands
2.2) now I contaminated my hand sanitizer bottle . What do I do?
3) When we arrive home from the grocery store do we disinfect the goods and bags BEFORE we bring them inside or AFTER?
- Do I put the mask back on?
4) Once we have the goods inside do we disinfect the entire car or just the trunk?
5) Do we need to disinfect our counter tops, pantries, refrigerator, entire kitchen, the dogs (they always sniff the bags) doors we touched, the garage, driveway and street?
6) What should we do about the food and goods purchased? Do we need to disinfect all these items as well? After all they were in the grocery store exposed to all these nasty viruses.
7) What should I do with my homemade fancy cloth mask? Do I burn it? It was also exposed to the nasty virus at the store?
8)What about the clothes I wore to the store? Is disinfecting them ok? Do I disinfect them in the grocery store parking lot or in my garage?
9) What about my eyes? Are there special eye drops I need to take? Where do I get those?
10) After consuming the goods from the store do I need a biohazard bag for the waste? (Both trash and poop)
11) Is the juice and milk I bought safe to drink or should i disinfect it first?
12) Is there a specific shampoo to use if I get a hair cut to disinfect my hair?
13) My meds...what about my meds? Are they safe to orally consume or should I disinfect them too?
14) If I shop at a hardware store should I disinfect each screw, nut and bolt BEFORE or AFTER I put them in my project?
15) I want to paint my room but I am not sure if I should disinfect the paint BEFORE or AFTER I apply it to the walls.
16) What if I forgot to follow any of the above do I call the fire department, CDC or psychiatrist?
I'm confused..
Copy and paste to share. I got this from someone else....I did not create this
LOL
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Mark Leavy »

WiseOne wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 2:45 pm Thanks! The gauze mask is the equivalent of the knit scarves that all of us were wearing (per CDC instructions) back in March. And I bet a lot better than the masks I see located under noses and chins.
Great tip, WiseOne. I just added this to my Amazon cart.

meshmask.png
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vnatale
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by vnatale »

https://www.wsj.com/articles/face-masks ... 1595083298

Sorry about the formatting. If too onerous for you, then just skip reading.


Vinny



Face Masks Really Do Matter. The Scientific Evidence Is Growing.
New research suggests that face coverings help reduce the transmission of droplets, though some masks are more protective than others
Tompkins Square Park in New York City, which is entering the final phase of reopening Monday.
Photo: Natalie Keyssar for The Wall Street Journal
By
July 18, 2020 10:41 am ET

Print
Text
2,315

Face masks are emerging as one of the most powerful weapons to fight the novel coronavirus, with growing evidence that facial coverings help prevent transmission—even if an infected wearer is in close contact with others.

Robert Redfield, director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, said he believes the pandemic could be brought under control over the next four to eight weeks if “we could get everybody to wear a mask right now.” His comments, made Tuesday with the Journal of the American Medical Association, followed an editorial he and others wrote there emphasizing “ample evidence” of asymptomatic spread and highlighting new studies showing how masks help reduce transmission.

The research Dr. Redfield cited included a newly published study suggesting that universal use of surgical masks helped reduce rates of confirmed Covid-19 infections among health-care workers at the Mass General Brigham health-care system in Massachusetts.
Stemming the Spread
Researchers simulated droplet dispersal from a heavy cough using different types of common masks.

Folded handkerchief

Leaked through

the mask

Leaked from

the top

2.27 sec.

0.5 sec. After the start of the

emulated cough.

Homemade face mask

0.2 sec.

0.47 sec.

Off-the-shelf cone style mask

(non N95 mask)

0.2 sec.

0.97 sec.

Average distance traveled by airborne droplets. (in inches)

Uncovered

Bandana (Elastic T-shirt material)

Folded handkerchief (Cotton)

Off-the-shelf cone style mask (Unknown)

Stitched mask (Quilting cotton)

0

25

50

75

100

*Researchers found that, of the masks they studied, a stitched, double-layered cotton mask was most effective in preventing droplets from being emitted forward. Most of the escape was from the gap between the nose and mask. Droplets traveled further out of the cone mask and also escaped from the top edge.

Source: Siddhartha Verma, Manhar Dhanak and John Frankenfield of Florida Atlantic University
Alberto Cervantes/THE WALL STREET JOURNAL

His comments are the clearest message yet from the CDC, amid fierce debate over facial coverings, fueled initially by shifting messages from federal and global officials about their necessity and then by those espousing individual liberties.
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Researchers from around the world have found wearing even a basic cloth face covering is more effective in reducing the spread of Covid-19 than wearing nothing at all. And many are now examining the possibility that masks might offer some personal protection from the virus, despite initial thinking that they mostly protect others.

Experts caution that widespread masking doesn’t eliminate the need to follow other recommendations, like frequent handwashing and social distancing.

In the absence of widespread availability of N95 masks—considered among the most effective but typically reserved for health-care workers—transmission can still be reduced with simple and affordable face coverings, the research shows. In a study published last month in the journal Physics of Fluids, researchers at Florida Atlantic University found that, of the readily accessible facial coverings they studied, a well-fitted homemade stitched mask comprising two layers of cotton quilting fabric was most effective for reducing the forward spread of droplets. The research was conducted using a mannequin’s head, an air compressor and a smoke generator that mechanically simulated a cough.

The study found that aerosol-size droplets expelled from the mannequin with the double-layered cotton mask traveled forward about 2.5 inches on average, and that most of the leakage escaped from gaps between the nose and face. Loosely fitting facial coverings, including a folded cotton handkerchief with ear loops, as well as a bandanna were less helpful, the study found. With those masks, droplets traveled on average about 1.25 and 3.5 feet, respectively. In contrast, the study found droplets traveled about 8 inches on average with an off-the-shelf cone-shaped mask.

Meanwhile, droplets from an uncovered cough traveled around 8 feet on average, though the study found that they could travel up to 12 feet—double the currently recommended social-distancing guideline of 6 feet. Leakage from a common disposable surgical mask wasn’t studied, though two of the study’s authors, Siddhartha Verma and Manhar Dhanak, said they are working on it.

“It was surprising in a good way to see that a homemade mask could do so well…that we don’t have to get a very fancy mask,” Dr. Verma said. “A cotton mask can be washed at home and dried. Reusability is becoming important as we go into this for the long haul.”
Related

U.S. Coronavirus Cases Hit New Daily Record
Jobs Recovery Shows Signs of Slowing as Coronavirus Surges
N95 Face Mask Makers Ramp Up Production
Mandatory Mask Laws Aren’t Enforced
Can You Really Return to a Gym During Covid-19?
Jason Gay: Please Wear a Face Mask So I Can Shut Up About It

They are also in the process of putting a laboratory apparatus together to test how much protection various masks might offer to the person wearing them.

The amount of virus exposure might influence degree of sickness, according to a review of viral literature and Covid-19 epidemiology by Monica Gandhi, a professor of medicine at the University of California, San Francisco. She and her co-authors posit in the research, expected to be published this month in the Journal of General Internal Medicine, that masks provide an important barrier and could lead to a milder infection or even prevent one altogether. While cloth and surgical masks can widely vary, she believes some masks can likely filter out a majority of large viral droplets.

Amy Price, a senior research scientist at Stanford’s Anesthesia Informatics and Media Lab, maintains, in contrast, that the primary benefit of wearing a mask is to protect others and reduce Covid-19 transmission. She believes that, excluding N95 masks, multilayered masks with a slightly waterproof outer layer best minimize spread. She said rubbing the outer layer of the mask with a latex glove before donning it creates static electricity—which Stanford researchers believe can better prevent virus particles from passing from the mouth to outside of the mask.
SHARE YOUR THOUGHTS

What kind of mask are you wearing when you go out? Join the conversation below.

Researchers are hopeful that more evidence about the personal protection masks could lead to more use in coming weeks. The CDC said the use of cloth face coverings while in public in the U.S. increased to 76.4% in mid-May, compared with 61.9% in April, according to internet surveys sent to roughly 500 adults each month.

Some Americans who have resisted wearing masks have cited health concerns. However, leading medical groups said in a joint statement Thursday, “Individuals with normal lungs, and even many individuals with underlying chronic lung disease, should be able to wear a non-N95 facial covering without affecting their oxygen or carbon-dioxide levels.” Exemptions should be at the discretion of a physician, the groups said.
An N95 mask at a factory in Mexico City, at left, and the creation of masks at Stitch House Dorchester in Dorchester, Mass.
Photo: From left: Jeoffrey Guillemard/Bloomberg News; Joseph Prezioso/Agence France-Presse/Getty Images

Researchers say the benefits of widespread mask use were recently seen in a Missouri hair salon, where two stylists directly served 139 clients in May before testing positive for Covid-19. According to a recent report published by the CDC, both wore either a double-layered cotton or surgical mask, and nearly all clients who were interviewed reported wearing masks the entire time.

After contact tracing and two weeks of follow-up, no Covid-19 symptoms were identified among the 139 clients or their secondary contacts, the report found. Of the 67 who were willing to be tested, all were negative for Covid-19.

According to recent projections from the University of Washington’s Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation, the Covid-19 death toll in the U.S. would rise to more than 224,000 by Nov. 1. The number is based on expectations that Covid-19 mandates will continue to be eased until rising cases prompt shutdowns again in some places. Almost 140,000 people have died from Covid-19 in the country so far, according to data compiled by Johns Hopkins University.

Yet if 95% of the U.S. population began wearing masks, the expected death toll would drop by more than 40,000 cases to about 183,000 people, according to IHME.

Wearing a mask is “one of the most urgent things we can do to get our country under control,” said Melanie Ott, director of the Gladstone Institute of Virology. “We’re all waiting for the vaccine, we’re waiting for therapeutics, and we’re not there.”

“We have masks, we have social distancing, and we have testing,” she continued. “But there’s not much more in the toolbox here.”

Write to Caitlin McCabe at caitlin.mccabe@wsj.com
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by pp4me »

vnatale wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:54 am Researchers say the benefits of widespread mask use were recently seen in a Missouri hair salon, where two stylists directly served 139 clients in May before testing positive for Covid-19. According to a recent report published by the CDC, both wore either a double-layered cotton or surgical mask, and nearly all clients who were interviewed reported wearing masks the entire time.

After contact tracing and two weeks of follow-up, no Covid-19 symptoms were identified among the 139 clients or their secondary contacts, the report found. Of the 67 who were willing to be tested, all were negative for Covid-19.
If that's what they mean by "growing evidence" I'm not very impressed.

And what's this with all the testing about how far a cough will travel? If you have a cough shouldn't you be staying at home? In my own experience I don't recall anyone ever coughing when I went to the store. If they did I'm sure they would get lots of dirty looks. And is there a study that shows what percentage of people would venture out with a cough thinking that wearing a mask will prevent them from spreading the disease?
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by WiseOne »

Mark Leavy wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 7:37 pm
WiseOne wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 2:45 pm Thanks! The gauze mask is the equivalent of the knit scarves that all of us were wearing (per CDC instructions) back in March. And I bet a lot better than the masks I see located under noses and chins.
Great tip, WiseOne. I just added this to my Amazon cart.


meshmask.png
Ha! Doesn't look too comfortable in 100 degree heat, but that technically would meet the mask mandate since there is no mention of the material to be used.

Vinny - showing that a piece of material blocks droplets is a LONG LONG WAY from proving that they reduce viral transmission when used by the general public. This is about the weakest form of scientific evidence ever. For example - those same experiments show that once the cloth gets wet, it's no longer effective. What do you think happens to face masks when people are wearing them outside in hot weather? And that's just for starters. What happens after the mask has been used a bunch of times? What about the gaps on the side that occur with all cheap masks? And are droplets actually how this virus is transmitted? Cloth masks will do nothing to stop aerosols. They also won't stop either from getting into your eyes, or onto your hands and then to your face.

The hospital study is also incredibly misleading. Those staff members were wearing surgical masks AND N95 masks with face shields over top, gloves & gown. And were trained in how to take them off without contaminating themselves. To attribute the effectiveness to surgical masks alone is frankly disingenuous.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Cortopassi »

WiseOne wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 12:11 pm
Mark Leavy wrote: Sun Jul 19, 2020 7:37 pm
WiseOne wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 2:45 pm Thanks! The gauze mask is the equivalent of the knit scarves that all of us were wearing (per CDC instructions) back in March. And I bet a lot better than the masks I see located under noses and chins.
Great tip, WiseOne. I just added this to my Amazon cart.


meshmask.png
Ha! Doesn't look too comfortable in 100 degree heat, but that technically would meet the mask mandate since there is no mention of the material to be used.

Vinny - showing that a piece of material blocks droplets is a LONG LONG WAY from proving that they reduce viral transmission when used by the general public. This is about the weakest form of scientific evidence ever. For example - those same experiments show that once the cloth gets wet, it's no longer effective. What do you think happens to face masks when people are wearing them outside in hot weather? And that's just for starters. What happens after the mask has been used a bunch of times? What about the gaps on the side that occur with all cheap masks? And are droplets actually how this virus is transmitted? Cloth masks will do nothing to stop aerosols. They also won't stop either from getting into your eyes, or onto your hands and then to your face.

The hospital study is also incredibly misleading. Those staff members were wearing surgical masks AND N95 masks with face shields over top, gloves & gown. And were trained in how to take them off without contaminating themselves. To attribute the effectiveness to surgical masks alone is frankly disingenuous.
WiseOne,

Imagine you are in a 10x10' room with a person who has the virus and is actively ill. You have a choice of them putting a mask on, you putting a mask on, neither putting a mask on, or both putting masks on. You will be in the same room for 10 minutes in one situation, and 2 hours in another.

*regular cloth masks, not N95

What do you do?
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Maddy »

The evidence that cloth masks do anything meaningful to prevent the transmission of viruses is simply not there. It's beyond amazing that so many otherwise intelligent people blindly rely on "the experts" whose political agendas, conflicts of interest, and established proclivity for flat-out fraud is by now beyond dispute. You want to wear a mask? Fine. I haven't worn one yet and don't intend to. It's a symbol of submission to the Marxist world order, which is something I'll resist to the bitter end.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by WiseOne »

Cortopassi, that scenario is more likely to happen with a mask mandate than without. The person who is actively ill should stay home, but they may well decide that since they have a mask on, it's ok to go out in public.

If someone near me indoors is coughing and sneezing into the air, I wouldn't hesitate to say something - and walk out of the store. Staying in the store and putting on a mask would be a lot less effective and NOT my first choice.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Cortopassi »

WiseOne, I'll take that.

maddy, that's your right as well. I guess you won't be doing much shopping at all the big box stores that now require masks?

I certainly see these points -- for example I am staunchly opposed to the standard American diet and think it is killing us, yet it is supposedly based in science.

Can anyone explain what's caused Trump to change his tune on masks?
Simonjester wrote: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=10903#p201109
babylonbee.com/news/genius-trump-puts-on-mask-causing-liberals-to-question-effectiveness-of-masks
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Mark Leavy »

Cortopassi wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:12 am Can anyone explain what's caused Trump to change his tune on masks?
I think Trump knows that if he starts supporting masks, the news will reflexively say that they are useless and dangerous. They won't be able to stop themselves.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

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Cortopassi wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:12 am WiseOne, I'll take that.

maddy, that's your right as well. I guess you won't be doing much shopping at all the big box stores that now require masks?
I'm exempt, and not afraid to press the issue.

Mark, good hypothesis about Trump using reverse psychology. Up to now, his turnabout on masks had me rather baffled.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by WiseOne »

Maddy wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:53 am
Cortopassi wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:12 am WiseOne, I'll take that.

maddy, that's your right as well. I guess you won't be doing much shopping at all the big box stores that now require masks?
I'm exempt.
If I may ask....how did you pull that off?

I just wear the mask in stores because it's not worth fighting city hall on it. I also go early in the morning or late in the evening, so that I'm in and out of there fast and don't need to stand on line.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Cortopassi »

Mark Leavy wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:45 am
Cortopassi wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:12 am Can anyone explain what's caused Trump to change his tune on masks?
I think Trump knows that if he starts supporting masks, the news will reflexively say that they are useless and dangerous. They won't be able to stop themselves.
I'll take bets on that. It'll never happen. All that will be said is he finally figured it out and they hope that his base follows suit. No way will they minimize mask wearing because of this.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Cortopassi »

Libertarian666 wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:17 am
Maddy wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:53 am
Cortopassi wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:12 am WiseOne, I'll take that.

maddy, that's your right as well. I guess you won't be doing much shopping at all the big box stores that now require masks?
I'm exempt, and not afraid to press the issue.

Mark, good hypothesis about Trump using reverse psychology. Up to now, his turnabout on masks had me rather baffled.
He knows that he can get the Marxist media to support whatever he wants them to, simply by supporting the opposite of that.
Here's what it looks like: https://youtu.be/cQ4qPuneQ1U
So he really wants all the fort names to change? Hard to keep track... :o

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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by vnatale »

Cortopassi wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:12 am WiseOne, I'll take that.

maddy, that's your right as well. I guess you won't be doing much shopping at all the big box stores that now require masks?

I certainly see these points -- for example I am staunchly opposed to the standard American diet and think it is killing us, yet it is supposedly based in science.

Can anyone explain what's caused Trump to change his tune on masks?
I don't think the SAD is based in science. I thought it was based upon lobbyists.

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Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Maddy »

WiseOne wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:57 am If I may ask....how did you pull that off?

I just wear the mask in stores because it's not worth fighting city hall on it. I also go early in the morning or late in the evening, so that I'm in and out of there fast and don't need to stand on line.
Well, for one, I read the governor's order. It laid out a number of exemptions, and I went to work doing what 30 years of legal work taught me to do. I figured out how those exemptions applied to me. I carry a copy of the governor's order delineating the exemptions (you'd be surprised how many store employees and managers have never read it) and a summary of the ADA and the parallel state statute laying out the penalties for noncompliance. They start at $75,000 for the first offense.

I have a number of friends who, by reason of panic attacks, tachycardia, asthma, migraines, moisture-induced acne, actinic keratoses, and plain ol' difficulty breathing have all successfully claimed medical exemptions at the front door. Under the ADA, a store is not permitted to demand documentation or to even ask what the nature of their medical condition is. Not that the Black Shirt monitoring the door at Walmart would have a clue what most of them are, anyway.

Actually, I was turned away once at a hardware store, where the manager refused to recognize my medical exemption. It was about 8:00 in the morning, and by a little after 9, the manager had reversed his stance after I phoned the corporate office and threatened to sue. I had one employee in tears. Okay, I went a little far, and I do feel a little bad about that.

One of these days I'll probably get tired of going through all this sturm und drang, at which point I might try doing what the more creative shoppers at Walmart are doing: https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-07-18- ... appen.html
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Hal »

Maddy wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 2:09 pm Well, for one, I read the governor's order. It laid out a number of exemptions, and I went to work doing what 30 years of legal work taught me to do. I figured out how those exemptions applied to me. I carry a copy of the governor's order detailing the exemptions (you'd be surprised how many store employees and managers have never read it) and a summary of the ADA and the parallel state statute laying out the penalties for noncompliance. They start at $75,000 for the first offense.

I have a number of friends who, by reason of panic attacks, tachycardia, asthma, migraines, moisture-induced acne, actinic keratoses, and plain ol' difficulty breathing have all successfully claimed medical exemptions at the front door. Under the ADA, a store is not permitted to demand documentation or to even ask what the nature of their medical condition is. Not that the Black Shirt monitoring the door at Walmart would have a clue what most of them are, anyway.

Actually, I was turned away once at a hardware store, where the manager refused to recognize my medical exemption. It was about 8:00 in the morning, and by a little after 9, the manager had reversed his stance after I phoned the corporate office and threatened to sue. I had one employee in tears. Okay, I went a little far, and I do feel a little bad about that.

One of these days I'll probably get tired of going through all this sturm und drang, at which point I might try doing what the more creative shoppers at Walmart are doing: https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-07-18- ... appen.html
Thanks Maddy,
That link made my day :)

As of tomorrow it will be mandatory to wear a mask in Melbourne.
Perhaps I should follow the 1800's dress standard...
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Maddy »

WiseOne wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:57 am If I may ask....how did you pull that off?
Goodness gracious, WiseOne, you're a freaking neurologist. Just hang a stethescope around your neck and spout out some five hundred dollar words at the door, and you should get in just fine.
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