Coronavirus General Discussion

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Kriegsspiel
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Kriegsspiel » Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:11 pm

vnatale wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 12:40 pm
Kriegsspiel wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:57 am
Another reason I like dry, desert heat more than humid, (but less hot) swamp heat is that mosquitoes absolutely LOVE my blood, and I have absurd reactions to mosquito bites.
I'm the opposite. I've read that mosquitos like dark skin and people who sweat, both of which could describe me, but they don't come after me. While other people around me are complaining I remain untouched. I can go all year with one bite tops. I spend a lot of time outside (generally outside until the sun goes down (and even longer) and no bites so far this year.

Is it a blood thing?
Clouds of mosquitoes have been so thick in southwest Louisiana since Hurricane Laura that they’re killing cattle and horses..

Did Hurricane Laura open a portal to my personal hell?
You there, Ephialtes. May you live forever.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Kriegsspiel » Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:51 pm

Democrats covered up low COVID numbers in order to shut down bars.

If I was king of the world? Immediate dirt nap. IMMEDIATE.
You there, Ephialtes. May you live forever.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by jalanlong » Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:12 pm

Why the shutdowns should last longer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxznGIj8Ja0
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by vnatale » Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:42 pm

“It Was All About the Election”: The Ex-White House Aide Olivia Troye on Trump’s Narcissistic Mishandling of COVID-19

The first staffer on the coronavirus task force to go public tells The New Yorker that America’s pandemic response was “derailed by the person at the very top.”


https://www.newyorker.com/news/letter-f ... f-covid-19

I asked about her firsthand observation of the President during the crisis. She said that Trump was “disruptive.” That he could not “focus.” That he was consumed by himself and his prospects in November. “For him, it was all about the election,” Troye told me. “He just can’t seem to care about anyone else besides himself.”


Troye joined the coronavirus task force when it was first established, in late January, before any Americans had died from covid-19. Her experience on it, Troye told me, convinced her that Trump’s handling of the situation—the conscious spreading of disinformation, the disregard for the task force’s work—had made the crisis far worse for Americans. She warned about the President’s push for a vaccine before the November election and said that she did not trust him to do the right thing for the country’s health and safety. “What I’m really concerned about is if they rush this vaccine and pressure people and get something out because they want to save the election,” she said.


Troye is the first White House staff member who has worked on the coronavirus response to speak out publicly against Trump, but the President and the Administration she described were drearily consistent with portraits that have emerged in countless other tell-all interviews and books: a White House riven by backstabbing and suspicion, where trouble flowed from the top and good governance was subordinate to Presidential whim and partisan calculation. She told me she believed that most other staffers on the coronavirus task force were genuinely motivated to help Americans weather the pandemic but that Trump blocked them from implementing the right policies. “Everything that you’re putting in place is derailed not just by a random person—it’s derailed by a No. 1. It’s derailed by the person at the very top,” she said.
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Maddy » Fri Sep 18, 2020 6:51 am

And this is news? That somebody blames Trump?
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by jalanlong » Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:00 am

So you are telling me that any other politician in that office 7 months before the election would not be making decisions with the election in mind? Bill Clinton (or Hillary for that matter) would be making decisions for the betterment of the country with absolutely no eye on how the decisions would affect their reelection chances in November?
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by WiseOne » Fri Sep 18, 2020 11:11 am

MangoMan wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:17 pm
@WiseOne:
Now that weather is getting colder and people will be moving inside, would setting up a fan to circulate air be helpful or make things worse?
No idea about whether fans would help or not. Increasing #air exchanges probably makes more sense but no data to support that.

We know that respiratory infections increase in most of the US in the winter AND in Florida (southern regions) in the height of summer. What's common in both of these is people staying indoors because it's unpleasant outside (cold in winter, nasty hot in Florida summers). So the conjecture here is that it's vitamin D levels driving infection rates. If that's the case, taking vitamin D and checking blood levels is your best bet.

What's a good blood level is open to debate. The generally accepted # is > 20 mg/dl, but I've heard arguments that it should be higher (up to 60 mg/dl) based on measurements in hunter-gatherer populations. That at least tells us that levels that high aren't harmful. We also know that virtually all hospitalized COVID cases have low (< 20) vitamin D levels, and there's been at least one study of using large vit D infusions to treat COVID.

(On the other hand....raising vit D level based on the above observations may be like reasoning that you can minimize your chances of being on a plane that gets blown up by a bomb by bringing a bomb onto the plane, because there are no cases of planes with two independent bombs.)
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by pp4me » Fri Sep 18, 2020 1:57 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:17 pm
@WiseOne:
Now that weather is getting colder and people will be moving inside, would setting up a fan to circulate air be helpful or make things worse?
I don't know the answer to that but I wonder if the ultra violet gizmo the A/C repairman tried to sell me when I had my yearly maintenance done might help. It's installed right beside the intake fan and is supposed to kill mold but I wonder if it would also kill the virus. I believe I read somewhere that it does.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Tortoise » Fri Sep 18, 2020 2:08 pm

CDC reverses controversial guidance on Covid-19 testing
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reversed its controversial Covid-19 testing guidance on Friday, stating clearly that close contacts without any symptoms need a test.

“Due to the significance of asymptomatic and presymptomatic transmission, this guidance reinforces the need to test asymptomatic persons, including close contacts of a person with documented Sars-Cov-2 infection,” the update, posted on its website, reads.

The updated guidance, which the CDC called a clarification, walks back a recommendation made in August that close contacts of Covid-19 patients don’t necessarily need to be tested if they don’t have symptoms.

Infectious-disease specialists and public-health experts criticized that guidance, citing the need to test close contacts to help identify and stop the transmission of the virus.
The CDC has become a dumpster fire this week. First its director's statement two days ago in a senate hearing that masks are "more guaranteed to protect" against Cooties-19 than a vaccine, now this political flip-flop on the issue of testing.

I can't wait to see what else pops out of the CDC's clown car!
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Hal » Fri Sep 18, 2020 7:25 pm

You are fortunate you have a bill of rights and a decent constitution.
Look at our system of government....

Now Andrews calls anyone who disagrees with him a “conspiracy theorist” and wants to imprison them. He has completely lost all sense of what a free society is all about. What’s next? He will seek extradition internationally for anyone who criticizes him? Perhaps he will imprison Sky News for reporting the truth.

https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/inte ... nvestment/

https://www.facebook.com/adamseconomics ... 1804622147
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by vnatale » Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:29 pm

Billionaire Patrick Soon-Shiong’s radical cancer treatments made him one of the wealthiest physicians on Earth. Now the master of medical marketing believes his drug therapies could defeat “the crisis of our time.”

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexknapp/ ... a750d208a2


Beyond potential mutations, another concern about merely eliciting an antibody response is that from the data seen so far, antibodies to the Covid-19 virus just don’t last very long. Levels of antibodies in the blood are “really low after a few months,” says Marasco, who’s not associated with Soon-Shiong’s companies or their vaccine research. “I think it’s uncertain how long immunity will remain after successful vaccination.” Using the nucleocapsid protein “couldn’t hurt,” he adds, and it could elicit not only antibodies but virus-killing T-cells as well.

If Soon-Shiong’s approaches to Covid-19 bear fruit in clinical trials, the next step may prove harder still: getting those treatments to needy patients. This is especially so for the vaccine, because at the moment neither NantKwest nor ImmunityBio has the resources to scale up manufacturing. “I’m now behind the eight ball,” Soon-Shiong admits, “because there’s no way I could have 100 million doses unless somebody supports me. Maybe I have a million doses or 2 million doses.” He expresses some frustration at the government: “Billions of dollars are going to companies that have billions [in] revenues.” He’s not wrong about that. In July, pharma giant Pfizer (2019 revenue: $51.8 billion) received a $2 billion federal contract to manufacture a vaccine it’s developing.
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by vnatale » Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:41 am

In a rare interview, the world's fifth-richest person and Oracle founder talks about the president, the pandemic and his $300 million bet to turn his Hawaiian island into a wellness laboratory.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/angelauyeu ... 54cb5931d3



While Ellison declined to delve into the specifics of the call, his team confirmed the general details. Trump and Ellison had been publicly linked in February, for a fundraiser at the Rancho Mirage compound that caused employees at the generally apolitical Oracle to walk out in protest. “Be absolutely precise,” Ellison now says. “I said President Trump could use the property. I was not here.” Ellison says he has never given money to Trump but will support any president currently holding the office. “We only have one president at a time,” he explains. “I don’t think he’s the devil—I support him and want him to do well.”


Without a vaccine, doctors around the world are experimenting with medicines to treat COVID-19, from antimalarial drugs to an antiviral used to fight Ebola. Ellison asked Trump if a clearinghouse existed for real-time data about treatment efficacies and outcomes. Trump said no. (The White House declined to discuss the Ellison partnership.)

“Larry said, ‘I will build you a system so doctors and patients can enter information, so we can know what’s happening,’” says David Agus, a cancer doctor who leads the Lawrence J. Ellison Institute for Transformative Medicine at the University of Southern California and is cofounder of Sensei. “The president said, ‘How much?’ And Larry said, ‘For free.’”

Within a week, Ellison enlisted an undisclosed number of Oracle engineers to work with Agus, the Food and Drug Administration, the National Institutes of Health and other federal agencies to create a database for the country’s coronavirus cases. Doctors will register every COVID-19 case being treated with a medication on the Oracle-built website. The system will then send daily emails, to the doctor or the patient, to ask for a progress report on symptoms. As of press time, the team was working to get over legal hurdles and was hopeful the project would launch imminently.



While Ellison’s COVID-19 treatment database can’t come soon enough for information-hungry health officials, it has also sparked a fair amount of concern, most of it involving the president himself. Trump, who before his election was prone to promoting the dangerous vaccination-causes-autism lie, has in recent weeks defaulted to the position of quack-in-chief, touting unproven or half-baked solutions to the public. The fear: that Trump might use certain information to circumvent randomized clinical trials.


“I don’t know how you could be against it,” Agus says. “It’s just about getting real-world evidence of things, and I think that is powerful and important.” He and Ellison support clinical trials, he says—as well as using real-time data in conjunction with them. “We’re not working for President Trump,” Agus adds. “We’re working for the people.”

If he’s right—and public health demands that he is—then this exercise could prove to be another data set for Ellison’s mission of utopia through information. For Ellison, a health nut who plays tennis daily and has given about $1 billion to medical research into cancer and aging, this would be the ultimate use of his case study. “I don’t think it’s about living forever, but . . . if you make it to 60, [you want to be] a fit 60 and enjoy your life and be able to do things,” he says. “I know people who are old at 40. They don’t take care of themselves. They’re not fit. They get depressed.

“All of these things happen,” he concludes, “and I’m sure that does not have to be the case.”
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Tortoise » Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:08 pm

Hal wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 7:25 pm
You are fortunate you have a bill of rights and a decent constitution.
Look at our system of government....
Over 10 cops in Australia arrest a man on the beach for not wearing a mask
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Tortoise » Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:40 pm

Tortoise wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 2:08 pm
The CDC has become a dumpster fire this week. First its director's statement two days ago in a senate hearing that masks are "more guaranteed to protect" against Cooties-19 than a vaccine, now this political flip-flop on the issue of testing.

I can't wait to see what else pops out of the CDC's clown car!
Well, that didn't take long...

CDC Removes Guidelines Saying Coronavirus Can Spread From Tiny Air Particles
The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention pulled new guidelines acknowledging the new coronavirus could be transmitted by tiny particles that linger in the air, saying a draft version of proposed changes was posted in error on the agency’s website.

For months, the CDC said the new coronavirus is primarily transmitted between people in close contact through large droplets that land in the mouths or noses of people nearby. On Friday, however, it added that tiny particles known as aerosols could transmit the virus.

Then abruptly on Monday, the CDC reversed course and removed the additions. Much of the guidelines’ earlier description of Covid-19 transmission, emphasizing spread via large droplets, was restored.

“A draft version of proposed changes to these recommendations was posted in error to the agency’s official website,” a CDC spokesman said in an email.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Mountaineer » Mon Sep 21, 2020 5:57 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:49 pm
Tortoise wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:40 pm

For months, the CDC said the new coronavirus is primarily transmitted between people in close contact through large droplets that land in the mouths or noses of people nearby. On Friday, however, it added that tiny particles known as aerosols could transmit the virus.

Then abruptly on Monday, the CDC reversed course and removed the additions. Much of the guidelines’ earlier description of Covid-19 transmission, emphasizing spread via large droplets, was restored.


Pugchief sighs with relief at aerosol news.
Pugchief then scowls at lack of consistency, conflicting advice, and ridiculous lack of logic everywhere concerning this stupid virus.
My thoughts exactly. What the hell is the appropriate course of action to best protect self and others? Personally, I am trying to take a conservative approach, but there is so much conflicting data. It is an ‘in the dark’ crap shoot at best.
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Hal » Mon Sep 21, 2020 10:32 pm

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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Tortoise » Tue Sep 22, 2020 5:25 pm

Disneyland executives get ready to bitch-slap Governor Newsom to reopen theme parks after six months of closure:
https://www.foxla.com/news/disneyland-c ... it-is-time
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by vnatale » Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:27 pm

Capture.JPG
Capture.JPG (35.78 KiB) Viewed 4397 times
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by vnatale » Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:37 pm

BREAKING: FDA will make it HARDER to get a coronavirus vaccine approved in a move that could block Trump's plan to have a shot before Election Day


The FDA is expected to announce new, tougher requirements for a COVID-19 vaccine as early as this week, anonymous sources told the Washington Post

Tougher guidelines will make it more unlikely that any company working on a shot can get it approved before the November 3 Election Day

American trust in the safety of a potential COVID-19 shot has plummeted with Trump's continued push to rush approval before 'a very special date'


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/arti ... roved.html
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Tortoise » Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:47 pm

vnatale wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:27 pm
Capture.JPG
Pray tell, how many of those 200,000 deaths were FROM Covid-1984 rather than merely WITH Covid-1984?

I was having a related discussion with my brother today. He sent me some tweets going into a deep-dive on how many Covid-19 "cases" have been asymptomatic, and I posed this series of questions for him: "Are we even certain that the symptomatic people's symptoms were caused by SARS-CoV-2? Go back in time one or two years. If you randomly grabbed 10,000 people, wouldn't you expect some percentage of them to have cold/flu-like symptoms? Now fast-forward to today. Wouldn't you expect a similar percentage of a big random sample to have cold/flu-like symptoms? If they also happen to test positive for SARS-CoV-2, do we know for a fact that their cold/flu-like symptoms are caused by that virus and not some other one?"

Think about it.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by vnatale » Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:53 pm

Tortoise wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:47 pm
vnatale wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:27 pm
Capture.JPG
Pray tell, how many of those 200,000 deaths were FROM Covid-1984 rather than merely WITH Covid-1984?

I was having a related discussion with my brother today. He sent me some tweets going into a deep-dive on how many Covid-19 "cases" have been asymptomatic, and I posed this series of questions for him: "Are we even certain that the symptomatic people's symptoms were caused by SARS-CoV-2? Go back in time one or two years. If you randomly grabbed 10,000 people, wouldn't you expect some percentage of them to have cold/flu-like symptoms? Now fast-forward to today. Wouldn't you expect a similar percentage of a big random sample to have cold/flu-like symptoms? If they also happen to test positive for SARS-CoV-2, do we know for a fact that their cold/flu-like symptoms are caused by that virus and not some other one?"

Think about it.
What else could be the reason for "excess deaths" this year?

Vinny

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covi ... deaths.htm

Estimates of excess deaths can provide information about the burden of mortality potentially related to the COVID-19 pandemic, including deaths that are directly or indirectly attributed to COVID-19. Excess deaths are typically defined as the difference between the observed numbers of deaths in specific time periods and expected numbers of deaths in the same time periods. This visualization provides weekly estimates of excess deaths by the jurisdiction in which the death occurred. Weekly counts of deaths are compared with historical trends to determine whether the number of deaths is significantly higher than expected.

Counts of deaths from all causes of death, including COVID-19, are presented. As some deaths due to COVID-19 may be assigned to other causes of deaths (for example, if COVID-19 was not diagnosed or not mentioned on the death certificate), tracking all-cause mortality can provide information about whether an excess number of deaths is observed, even when COVID-19 mortality may be undercounted. Additionally, deaths from all causes excluding COVID-19 were also estimated. Comparing these two sets of estimates — excess deaths with and without COVID-19 — can provide insight about how many excess deaths are identified as due to COVID-19, and how many excess deaths are reported as due to other causes of death. These deaths could represent misclassified COVID-19 deaths, or potentially could be indirectly related to the COVID-19 pandemic (e.g., deaths from other causes occurring in the context of health care shortages or overburdened health care systems).
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Tortoise » Tue Sep 22, 2020 7:49 pm

vnatale wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:53 pm
What else could be the reason for "excess deaths" this year?
Many or even most of the excess deaths could be due to Covid-1984, or they could be largely due to the unintended consequences MangoMan mentioned. We don't know for sure. It's all guesswork.

But my point about Covid-1984 "cases" still stands: For a given person who (a) has a fever or a cough and (b) tests positive for SARS-CoV-2, how do we know their fever or cough is caused by SARS-CoV-2? Isn't it possible that SARS-CoV-2 caused no symptoms in that person, and their fever or cough is actually caused by the common cold or the flu?

Covid-1984 statistics seem to be based on some unspoken assumptions that aren't necessarily justified.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by vnatale » Tue Sep 22, 2020 7:55 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:58 pm
vnatale wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:53 pm
What else could be the reason for "excess deaths" this year?
1. Suicide or other mental illness related deaths due to the lockdowns.
2. Treatable diseases that were left unchecked because of
a) fear of contracting covid in the hospital
b) hospitals turning away anyone except covid patients for fear of running out of beds
Yes. Except that the only constant with no let up is the virus. All the others you cite were either only applicable for a certain time periods or more intensely in certain geographic locations. Neither applicable during the entire time period as has the virus.

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Libertarian666 » Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:56 pm

vnatale wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 7:55 pm
MangoMan wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:58 pm
vnatale wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:53 pm
What else could be the reason for "excess deaths" this year?
1. Suicide or other mental illness related deaths due to the lockdowns.
2. Treatable diseases that were left unchecked because of
a) fear of contracting covid in the hospital
b) hospitals turning away anyone except covid patients for fear of running out of beds
Yes. Except that the only constant with no let up is the virus. All the others you cite were either only applicable for a certain time periods or more intensely in certain geographic locations. Neither applicable during the entire time period as has the virus.

Vinny
You asked about '"excess deaths" this year'.
Thus, anything that would increase deaths this year would qualify, regardless of what time period or geographic location they affected.
Stop trying to move the goalposts.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Cortopassi » Tue Sep 22, 2020 10:00 pm

I have at least one friend whose company has decided to go remote forever. What this is all going to do to commercial real estate is going to be devastating.

And Air Traffic, wow:
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