Coronavirus General Discussion

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WiseOne
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by WiseOne » Mon Nov 16, 2020 12:47 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 7:07 pm
WiseOne wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 4:37 pm
It's all part of the game.
What's the game? I still haven't figured out who benefits.
Is that seriously a questions?

The Democrats, obviously. And I'm sure some of their biggest donors e.g. Silicon Valley firms.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by dualstow » Mon Nov 16, 2020 1:41 pm

boglerdude wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 6:24 am
I was onboard with our shops on Main St getting wiped out and replaced with chipotle, if that meant no more bums. If they keep up with this lockdown stuff...Im not so sure.
Don't bums like chipotle?
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Cortopassi » Mon Nov 16, 2020 1:45 pm

WiseOne wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 12:47 pm
Cortopassi wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 7:07 pm
WiseOne wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 4:37 pm
It's all part of the game.
What's the game? I still haven't figured out who benefits.
Is that seriously a questions?

The Democrats, obviously. And I'm sure some of their biggest donors e.g. Silicon Valley firms.
I must be dense, WiseOne. Seriously, I am not trying to jerk you around.

Let's take one example. JB Pritzker, governor of IL. I believe it has been stated one of the reasons he's been pushing the virus hard is to get a bailout. Assuming the senate stays republican, that doesn't happen, right?

I can nearly guarantee you that he will be a one term governor. The sense I get is that there will be so little support for him, probably on both sides, mainly due to the heavy handed action on the virus. If just the pissed off parents and restaurant owners go out and vote, it will be a blowout

Any online presence has generally benefited from the lockdowns, sure, I'll give you that one.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Tortoise » Mon Nov 16, 2020 5:04 pm

Here in CA, I predict that Emperor Newsom will be reelected despite his unconstitutional overreaches and suffocation of our state's economy (especially small businesses). A lot of CA residents think he's the worst, but the majority -- mostly Dems, obviously -- actually think he's doing the right thing.

Newsom's latest tyrannical overreach: He's considering a statewide curfew.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Cortopassi » Mon Nov 16, 2020 5:18 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 4:45 pm
Cortopassi wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 1:45 pm
WiseOne wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 12:47 pm
Cortopassi wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 7:07 pm
WiseOne wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 4:37 pm
It's all part of the game.
What's the game? I still haven't figured out who benefits.
Is that seriously a questions?

The Democrats, obviously. And I'm sure some of their biggest donors e.g. Silicon Valley firms.
I must be dense, WiseOne. Seriously, I am not trying to jerk you around.

Let's take one example. JB Pritzker, governor of IL. I believe it has been stated one of the reasons he's been pushing the virus hard is to get a bailout. Assuming the senate stays republican, that doesn't happen, right?

I can nearly guarantee you that he will be a one term governor. The sense I get is that there will be so little support for him, probably on both sides, mainly due to the heavy handed action on the virus. If just the pissed off parents and restaurant owners go out and vote, it will be a blowout

Any online presence has generally benefited from the lockdowns, sure, I'll give you that one.
You don't know how blue states work, do you? Whitmer in MI is worse and she was a serious contender for Biden's VP.

We had a Republican governor here just prior to Bubba JB (the first in ages) and he had lots of great ideas. Unfortunately, the Dem supermajority in Springfield thwarted him at every turn, so basically got nothing done, and thus he lost his reelection bid.
Your memory is short, pug!

Since 1977, republican, 30 years total, vs Democrat, 12 years total. Next you’ll tell me those long term republicans governors had no hand in our current pension crisis?
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by WiseOne » Mon Nov 16, 2020 6:27 pm

Tortoise wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 5:04 pm
Here in CA, I predict that Emperor Newsom will be reelected despite his unconstitutional overreaches and suffocation of our state's economy (especially small businesses). A lot of CA residents think he's the worst, but the majority -- mostly Dems, obviously -- actually think he's doing the right thing.

Newsom's latest tyrannical overreach: He's considering a statewide curfew.
And that's the benefit to the Democrats, right there. They will make it look like they Did Something Good, and will of course claim that matters would be far worse if they hadn't done those Good Things. The press will then back them up to the hilt, and disparage the other side for Not Doing Those Good Things. Never mind how irrational they may actually be...like banning the sale of garden seeds, or imposing curfews.

For the life of me I can't understand what a curfew has to do with slowing COVID spread. Maybe it only spreads after 10 pm? Or maybe 10pm is Cuomo's bedtime and he wants to see his subjects all nicely tucked away at home before he hits the sack?
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by jalanlong » Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:59 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 8:16 am
Maddy wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 5:45 am
Kriegsspiel wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 8:20 pm
I don't know about Francis Collins, but the latest headline I saw about Fauci had him quoted as saying, "Do what you're told." link.
The latest from Fauci is that even after a "vaccine" is available, you'll still need to wear a mask and adhere to social distancing.

Still think this is about a virus?
Fauci has a bit of an authoritarian streak in him, I agree. I looked at the link and others and did not find anything about continuing the measures after a vaccine is widely available.

And I also agree to some extent with WiseOne and others, the virus continues to be top news every day. The hospitals are almost always "near" the breaking point. Even though we've had five cases at my work, they have all been mild. There's a sense (by me) that it is overblown, it's been latched onto as the story of the year and can't be let go.

I don't understand how, for example, a place like NY, where I assume people are very compliant with mask wearing, has these big surges? Did everyone just stop wearing masks? Everyone get fatigue at the same time? Do masks not really work? Is it getting confounded with the flu and news outlets/governments are not being open about that? These are the questions in my mind.
That is a question that never seems to be asked of either politicians like Biden or medical authorities like Fauci. If masks are so darn effective and every major city in this country has mask mandates, why are cases spiking? Why is California a hotspot when they were claiming to be the #1 most compliant state with mask wearing. What will a National mask mandate do for increasing cases in those states that already have mask mandates?
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Tortoise » Mon Nov 16, 2020 8:19 pm

jalanlong wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:59 pm
If masks are so darn effective and every major city in this country has mask mandates, why are cases spiking? Why is California a hotspot when they were claiming to be the #1 most compliant state with mask wearing. What will a National mask mandate do for increasing cases in those states that already have mask mandates?
No place ever quite has 100% mask compliance, so even if cases skyrocket, one can always claim that it would have skyrocketed less had there been 100% compliance.

Sort of like when we have big financial crashes even though the Fed has existed for ages. One can always claim the crashes would have been considerably worse without the Fed.

EDIT: Fixed my slaughtered first sentence.
Last edited by Tortoise on Mon Nov 16, 2020 8:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by jalanlong » Mon Nov 16, 2020 8:27 pm

Tortoise wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 8:19 pm
jalanlong wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:59 pm
If masks are so darn effective and every major city in this country has mask mandates, why are cases spiking? Why is California a hotspot when they were claiming to be the #1 most compliant state with mask wearing. What will a National mask mandate do for increasing cases in those states that already have mask mandates?
No place ever quite has 100% mask compliance, so no matter how much the cases skyrocket, one can always claim that it would have skyrocketed even more had there been 100% compliance.

Sort of like when we have big financial crashes even though the Fed has existed for ages. One can always claim the crashes would have been considerably worse without the Fed.
Still that doesn’t hold up to scrutiny. Fauci and other “experts” have claimed repeatedly that wearing a mask is the number one way to stop the virus. So even with less than 100% compliance,you certainly have an extremely higher rate of mask wearing now than you had in April or May when mandates weren't in effect in Texas or California. So why haven’t case numbers dropped in proportion to the increased mask usage?
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Cortopassi » Mon Nov 16, 2020 8:48 pm

jalanlong wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 8:27 pm
Tortoise wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 8:19 pm
jalanlong wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:59 pm
If masks are so darn effective and every major city in this country has mask mandates, why are cases spiking? Why is California a hotspot when they were claiming to be the #1 most compliant state with mask wearing. What will a National mask mandate do for increasing cases in those states that already have mask mandates?
No place ever quite has 100% mask compliance, so no matter how much the cases skyrocket, one can always claim that it would have skyrocketed even more had there been 100% compliance.

Sort of like when we have big financial crashes even though the Fed has existed for ages. One can always claim the crashes would have been considerably worse without the Fed.
Still that doesn’t hold up to scrutiny. Fauci and other “experts” have claimed repeatedly that wearing a mask is the number one way to stop the virus. So even with less than 100% compliance,you certainly have an extremely higher rate of mask wearing now than you had in April or May when mandates weren't in effect in Texas or California. So why haven’t case numbers dropped in proportion to the increased mask usage?
Million dollar question.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by boglerdude » Tue Nov 17, 2020 3:33 am

They're learning from China. China controls a billion people with their surveillance/mask/curfew/police state
https://www.reddit.com/r/China/comments ... _state_as/

Politicians arent heart broken about grandmas. Most people who enter a nursing home are dead within two years.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Maddy » Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:27 am

boglerdude wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 3:33 am
They're learning from China. China controls a billion people with their surveillance/mask/curfew/police state
https://www.reddit.com/r/China/comments ... _state_as/

Politicians arent heart broken about grandmas. Most people who enter a nursing home are dead within two years.
Correction--They BUILT China's surveillance/mask/police state.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by dualstow » Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:25 am

I see less than half the people in my area wearing masks, unless you count wearing it around their neck. They slip it on before going into a place of business that requires it. Plenty of chances to spread it around.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by WiseOne » Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:42 pm

jalanlong wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:59 pm
don't understand how, for example, a place like NY, where I assume people are very compliant with mask wearing, has these big surges? Did everyone just stop wearing masks? Everyone get fatigue at the same time? Do masks not really work? Is it getting confounded with the flu and news outlets/governments are not being open about that? These are the questions in my mind.
That is a question that never seems to be asked of either politicians like Biden or medical authorities like Fauci. If masks are so darn effective and every major city in this country has mask mandates, why are cases spiking? Why is California a hotspot when they were claiming to be the #1 most compliant state with mask wearing. What will a National mask mandate do for increasing cases in those states that already have mask mandates?
[/quote]

I've noticed that mask wearing has gotten much more prevalent than it was over the summer. They're a lot less uncomfortable in cold weather, but maybe also it's due to the mask indoctrination. So yes, that certainly begs the question of why cases are increasing while mask wearing has also increased, or at least not decreased.

I suspect there is a lot of confounding by normal colds & flu. Last year, if you got sick you either medicated yourself to the hilt and went to work sick if that was the culture in your workplace, or you stayed home with a box of tissues and watched TV. This year, if you get sick you immediately go stand on a long line to get a COVID test. We already know that a percentage of these will come up positive reasons having nothing to do with current, active COVID infection. The positives are then labeled as COVID cases.

I don't think anyone has attempted to account for this scenario. Especially in NYC where about 20% of the population turns up positive on antibody testing. Perhaps a study of the rapid antigen & PCR tests in these antibody positive cases would help give some idea of what proportion of the population would turn up with a positive test based on prior infection (as I recall, that was the case with the famous George Floyd). Let's say that's just 10% of them. If that's so, and if everyone has equal probability of catching a random cold and deciding to get tested, then you would expect 2% of COVID tests to come back positive because of prior infection. Amazingly enough, the % positive test rate in NYC is about 2.5%. Interesting, no????
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by dualstow » Tue Nov 17, 2020 2:28 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 11:38 am
dualstow wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:25 am
I see less than half the people in my area wearing masks, unless you count wearing it around their neck. They slip it on before going into a place of business that requires it. Plenty of chances to spread it around.
Meh. I thought we all agreed that it was completely unnecessary to wear them outside?
I think that’s mostly true, but the devil is in the details. If two of the kind of people who only wear the mask for the bare minimum — not judging here — meet on the street and end up having a sustained conversation, are they more likely or less likely to take a step back and/or put on a mask?

I’m not concerned (anymore) about people who pass by without a mask because you’re right. But...the virus continues to spread like wildfire so *someone’s* doing it wrong.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by vnatale » Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:41 pm

WiseOne wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:42 pm
jalanlong wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:59 pm
don't understand how, for example, a place like NY, where I assume people are very compliant with mask wearing, has these big surges? Did everyone just stop wearing masks? Everyone get fatigue at the same time? Do masks not really work? Is it getting confounded with the flu and news outlets/governments are not being open about that? These are the questions in my mind.
That is a question that never seems to be asked of either politicians like Biden or medical authorities like Fauci. If masks are so darn effective and every major city in this country has mask mandates, why are cases spiking? Why is California a hotspot when they were claiming to be the #1 most compliant state with mask wearing. What will a National mask mandate do for increasing cases in those states that already have mask mandates?
I've noticed that mask wearing has gotten much more prevalent than it was over the summer. They're a lot less uncomfortable in cold weather, but maybe also it's due to the mask indoctrination. So yes, that certainly begs the question of why cases are increasing while mask wearing has also increased, or at least not decreased.

I suspect there is a lot of confounding by normal colds & flu. Last year, if you got sick you either medicated yourself to the hilt and went to work sick if that was the culture in your workplace, or you stayed home with a box of tissues and watched TV. This year, if you get sick you immediately go stand on a long line to get a COVID test. We already know that a percentage of these will come up positive reasons having nothing to do with current, active COVID infection. The positives are then labeled as COVID cases.

I don't think anyone has attempted to account for this scenario. Especially in NYC where about 20% of the population turns up positive on antibody testing. Perhaps a study of the rapid antigen & PCR tests in these antibody positive cases would help give some idea of what proportion of the population would turn up with a positive test based on prior infection (as I recall, that was the case with the famous George Floyd). Let's say that's just 10% of them. If that's so, and if everyone has equal probability of catching a random cold and deciding to get tested, then you would expect 2% of COVID tests to come back positive because of prior infection. Amazingly enough, the % positive test rate in NYC is about 2.5%. Interesting, no????
[/quote]

A week ago today, when I spent about 8 hours in fairly close proximity with two other people, there was also their dog with them. As soon as they arrived at my house I asked them if they wanted to go to the dog park in the town next to me. They said yes.

We went. I'd only prior been in it for a few minutes before one of my softball games (our two fields are next to it). This time I immersed myself in it, taking pictures of the myriad of the dogs (plus sometimes their owners). Because it looked like every single person in the dog park was wearing a mask, I thought I should have mine on. I put it on when I got inside the dog park.

When I take pictures I do not use the big viewer on the back of the camera but, instead, always use the tiny viewfinder.

I was taking my first pictures and manually focusing. Just before I was going to snap the picture, the view finder would get totally fogged. It initially threw me as I was wondering why of a sudden something that had never happened before was now happening, which I thought was my eye steaming up the viewfinder. Why???

Finally, after a few seconds, I realized it was the mask and the steam coming from my nose.

Solved the problem by bringing the mask below my nose. Problem solved. No one complained about that nose exposure. There were both quite a few people and dogs there (more dogs since it seemed like many people had multiple dogs).

Also, if Pugchief is reading this...

In addition to the two dog parks being next to our field...there is also a child's playground, a covered area with benches for eating, a basketball court, and.....finally, a pickle ball court!

I am almost certain I'd hardly ever seen anyone using it while we were at our softball games. The rare times there had been anyone there I never paid any close attention because I was too wrapped up in my softball games.

When we got there, as usual, there was no one on the that pickle ball court.

However, when we were leaving there were four people playing. I think one of them was older and the other three might have been late 20s, early 30s.

The three of us stood just outside the court fence for a while watching them play. This group did not seem all that athletic as I did not seem to see the ball go back and forth more than twice and did not seem to see that much movement on the part of any of them. It seemed like it was no more exercise than playing softball, which is not much. It felt to me like I could have jumped right in and played at least as well as any of the four of them.

Vinny
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by vnatale » Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:21 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:11 pm
IDK what the weather in Western MA is like now, but it's been too cold and windy to play PB outside here for around 6 weeks. But in the summer, the outdoor courts are mobbed from 7-11a and 6-9p.
Were we the only ones to get the unseasonably upper 60s, lower 70s weather for about five straight days? That was the last good day. That day I was wearing shorts and sandals.

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by vnatale » Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:21 pm

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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Xan » Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:26 pm

vnatale wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:21 pm
MangoMan wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:11 pm
IDK what the weather in Western MA is like now, but it's been too cold and windy to play PB outside here for around 6 weeks. But in the summer, the outdoor courts are mobbed from 7-11a and 6-9p.
Were we the only ones to get the unseasonably upper 60s, lower 70s weather for about five straight days? That was the last good day. That day I was wearing shorts and sandals.

Vinny
No, it's been like that every day here for quite a while! I don't know why all the national media is talking about people wanting to be inside.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by vnatale » Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:53 pm

Xan wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:26 pm
vnatale wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:21 pm
MangoMan wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:11 pm
IDK what the weather in Western MA is like now, but it's been too cold and windy to play PB outside here for around 6 weeks. But in the summer, the outdoor courts are mobbed from 7-11a and 6-9p.
Were we the only ones to get the unseasonably upper 60s, lower 70s weather for about five straight days? That was the last good day. That day I was wearing shorts and sandals.

Vinny
No, it's been like that every day here for quite a while! I don't know why all the national media is talking about people wanting to be inside.
But you are in Texas. After last Tuesday it is a good chance I will not be outside again until March!

Vinny
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Kriegsspiel » Wed Nov 18, 2020 6:22 am

vnatale wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:53 pm
Xan wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:26 pm
No, it's been like that every day here for quite a while! I don't know why all the national media is talking about people wanting to be inside.
But you are in Texas. After last Tuesday it is a good chance I will not be outside again until March!

Vinny
Yea this is definitely the nice part of the year in Texas. Maybe another month until the ice-rains start.

Vinny, one thing that might help you be able to go outside in our non-Texas climate is simply putting on some warm clothes. A lot of people don't know this trick, but it works really well. You can actually go outside all year!
You there, Ephialtes. May you live forever.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by dualstow » Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:42 am

Kriegsspiel wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 6:22 am
...
Vinny, one thing that might help you be able to go outside in our non-Texas climate is simply putting on some warm clothes. A lot of people don't know this trick, but it works really well. You can actually go outside all year!
Sounds fishy. I’m skeptical.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by vnatale » Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:22 am

Kriegsspiel wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 6:22 am
vnatale wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:53 pm
Xan wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:26 pm
No, it's been like that every day here for quite a while! I don't know why all the national media is talking about people wanting to be inside.
But you are in Texas. After last Tuesday it is a good chance I will not be outside again until March!

Vinny
Yea this is definitely the nice part of the year in Texas. Maybe another month until the ice-rains start.

Vinny, one thing that might help you be able to go outside in our non-Texas climate is simply putting on some warm clothes. A lot of people don't know this trick, but it works really well. You can actually go outside all year!
And, what exactly would I do?

For me my top on my property outside activity in sitting in a chair in the sun while reading and listening to music.

There is nothing I want to be doing outside in the cold.

Vinny
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Kriegsspiel » Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:37 am

What do you do? WHAT DO YOU DO?! I'll tell you, bucko! You go out there, in the snow flurries, in that whipping wind, and you READ your GODDAMN BOOK! Did your ancestors battle the elements, cross the oceans, or beat a saber tooth tiger to death with their own child (not your ancestor) only to see you defeated by modestly cool weather?! NAY, I SAY. NAY. This is no longer about a delightful afternoon in the sunshine, it's about proving that you're tougher than you think you are. Now go enjoy this bracing weather! I went for a walk this morning (just a tad below freezing temperatures, very pleasant) in shorts just to burn off some estrogen brought on by herbal tea drinking.
You there, Ephialtes. May you live forever.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by vnatale » Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:54 am

Kriegsspiel wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:37 am
What do you do? WHAT DO YOU DO?! I'll tell you, bucko! You go out there, in the snow flurries, in that whipping wind, and you READ your GODDAMN BOOK! Did your ancestors battle the elements, cross the oceans, or beat a saber tooth tiger to death with their own child (not your ancestor) only to see you defeated by modestly cool weather?! NAY, I SAY. NAY. This is no longer about a delightful afternoon in the sunshine, it's about proving that you're tougher than you think you are. Now go enjoy this bracing weather! I went for a walk this morning (just a tad below freezing temperatures, very pleasant) in shorts just to burn off some estrogen brought on by herbal tea drinking.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

EXTREMELY well done!

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LQWFDo604o



Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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