Coronavirus General Discussion

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murphy_p_t
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by murphy_p_t » Wed Aug 18, 2021 7:03 am

"The vaccine is as safe as any pre-covid vaccine and is no question about it the most studied vaccine ever. It also works very well and as designed."


Which other vaccine has close to 13,000 deaths attributed in the first eight months of administration?
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by vnatale » Wed Aug 18, 2021 9:10 am

Kbg wrote:
Tue Aug 17, 2021 11:41 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Tue Aug 17, 2021 12:39 pm

Kbg wrote:
Tue Aug 17, 2021 9:26 am


1. COVID is real.
2. The virus is going to do what it is going to do regardless of our opinions on it.


1. COVID is real: agree.
2. The virus is going to do what it is going to do regardless of our opinions on it: agree.
3. The government is going to do what it is going to do regardless of our opinions on it: you forgot about that part.


Agreed. But let's add it's also crystal clear governments and politicians are responding to those who put them in office in terms of their policies. I think that explains why CA's approach differs from FL's don't you? Trump's approach was one way and he lost the election. Biden's is another and if COVID even matters as an issue if and/or when he runs again, the voters will pass their judgement.

Big picture, I think the most interesting thing going on right now is what corporations are doing. Seems most of them have voted for the vaccine whether their employees like it or not. I'm going to guess if Pfizer gets fully approved in the purported next few weeks or so it's going to be get vax'ed or find another job. At that point, the precedent law for the past century is pretty much on their side.


His gross mid-handling of his response to the virus was THE reason why the voters repudiated him...
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by murphy_p_t » Wed Aug 18, 2021 9:48 am

My initial reaction..... LOL

(Biden won nothing... His people stole it)

On further reflection.... He should have fired that little shit fauci.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by jalanlong » Wed Aug 18, 2021 10:27 am

vnatale wrote:
Wed Aug 18, 2021 9:10 am
Kbg wrote:
Tue Aug 17, 2021 11:41 pm
MangoMan wrote:
Tue Aug 17, 2021 12:39 pm
Kbg wrote:
Tue Aug 17, 2021 9:26 am

1. COVID is real.
2. The virus is going to do what it is going to do regardless of our opinions on it.
1. COVID is real: agree.
2. The virus is going to do what it is going to do regardless of our opinions on it: agree.
3. The government is going to do what it is going to do regardless of our opinions on it: you forgot about that part.
Agreed. But let's add it's also crystal clear governments and politicians are responding to those who put them in office in terms of their policies. I think that explains why CA's approach differs from FL's don't you? Trump's approach was one way and he lost the election. Biden's is another and if COVID even matters as an issue if and/or when he runs again, the voters will pass their judgement.

Big picture, I think the most interesting thing going on right now is what corporations are doing. Seems most of them have voted for the vaccine whether their employees like it or not. I'm going to guess if Pfizer gets fully approved in the purported next few weeks or so it's going to be get vax'ed or find another job. At that point, the precedent law for the past century is pretty much on their side.
His gross mid-handling of his response to the virus was THE reason why the voters repudiated him...
Forgetting about Trump's statements early on about the virus being a "nothing burger" that would be gone in a few weeks, what were his specific Covid actions or policies that citizens disagreed with enough to vote him out? He pretty much went the local route of letting individual states decide their Covid restrictions.

As I stated in another thread, here in Texas where the governor is Republican and wants no mask mandates and local Democrat cities want them, Democrats are suddenly in favor of local decisions. Are you saying in this case they didn't want local decisions and wanted a one size fits all approach from Trump?

I have heard a lot of media refer to Trump's "poor handling of the crisis" and you just stated he "grossly mishandled" it. However, I have heard very few detailed criticisms of what exactly he did incorrectly other than the generic "didn't take it seriously" stuff. Other than the feel goods, what exactly do voters feel he handled incorrectly that was worthy of holding him personally responsible for Covid deaths?

Edit: If you are going to say he should have gone the European route of national lockdowns then we can go ahead and end the discussion here since no Republican except perhaps Romney would have done that. I want to know what specifically Trump did that makes his handling so egregious compared to any other person who might have been President caught with this hot potato 10 months before an election.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by vnatale » Wed Aug 18, 2021 10:48 am

jalanlong wrote:
Wed Aug 18, 2021 10:27 am

vnatale wrote:
Wed Aug 18, 2021 9:10 am

Kbg wrote:
Tue Aug 17, 2021 11:41 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Tue Aug 17, 2021 12:39 pm

Kbg wrote:
Tue Aug 17, 2021 9:26 am


1. COVID is real.
2. The virus is going to do what it is going to do regardless of our opinions on it.


1. COVID is real: agree.
2. The virus is going to do what it is going to do regardless of our opinions on it: agree.
3. The government is going to do what it is going to do regardless of our opinions on it: you forgot about that part.


Agreed. But let's add it's also crystal clear governments and politicians are responding to those who put them in office in terms of their policies. I think that explains why CA's approach differs from FL's don't you? Trump's approach was one way and he lost the election. Biden's is another and if COVID even matters as an issue if and/or when he runs again, the voters will pass their judgement.

Big picture, I think the most interesting thing going on right now is what corporations are doing. Seems most of them have voted for the vaccine whether their employees like it or not. I'm going to guess if Pfizer gets fully approved in the purported next few weeks or so it's going to be get vax'ed or find another job. At that point, the precedent law for the past century is pretty much on their side.


His gross mid-handling of his response to the virus was THE reason why the voters repudiated him...


Forgetting about Trump's statements early on about the virus being a "nothing burger" that would be gone in a few weeks, what were his specific Covid actions or policies that citizens disagreed with enough to vote him out? He pretty much went the local route of letting individual states decide their Covid restrictions.

As I stated in another thread, here in Texas where the governor is Republican and wants no mask mandates and local Democrat cities want them, Democrats are suddenly in favor of local decisions. Are you saying in this case they didn't want local decisions and wanted a one size fits all approach from Trump?

I have heard a lot of media refer to Trump's "poor handling of the crisis" and you just stated he "grossly mishandled" it. However, I have heard very few detailed criticisms of what exactly he did incorrectly other than the generic "didn't take it seriously" stuff. Other than the feel goods, what exactly do voters feel he handled incorrectly that was worthy of holding him personally responsible for Covid deaths?

Edit: If you are going to say he should have gone the European route of national lockdowns then we can go ahead and end the discussion here since no Republican except perhaps Romney would have done that. I want to know what specifically Trump did that makes his handling so egregious compared to any other person who might have been President caught with this hot potato 10 months before an election.


I will just go with a completely general statement. From day one of Trump's presidency it was always clear that the interests of the American people were far distant from the interests of Trump - which included him being intensely focused on being re-elected.

After the election how focused was he on the virus compared to his continual lying about the election having been stolen?

I could get into a lot more details here but I'm sure they'd all get disputed and brushed aside. Therefore, the time saver for all of us is for me to just stay with my general statement.
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Benko » Wed Aug 18, 2021 1:30 pm

vnatale wrote:
Wed Aug 18, 2021 10:48 am
From day one of Trump's presidency it was always clear that the interests of the American people were far distant from the interests of Trump
And the party importing illegal aliens (AKA undocumented Ds) into the US many of whom have covid but who refuse to screen them?

Buy a mirror.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by vnatale » Wed Aug 18, 2021 2:45 pm

Benko wrote:
Wed Aug 18, 2021 1:30 pm

vnatale wrote:
Wed Aug 18, 2021 10:48 am

From day one of Trump's presidency it was always clear that the interests of the American people were far distant from the interests of Trump


And the party importing illegal aliens (AKA undocumented Ds) into the US many of whom have covid but who refuse to screen them?

Buy a mirror.


I am an Independent. I could never be beholden to any political party.

I voted for Tulsi Gabbard for president.

Just because one is anti-Trump does not make one a Democrat.

There are degrees of poor politicians. Trump is fairly deep on the wrong end.
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by vnatale » Wed Aug 18, 2021 3:52 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Wed Aug 18, 2021 3:08 pm

vnatale wrote:
Wed Aug 18, 2021 2:45 pm

Benko wrote:
Wed Aug 18, 2021 1:30 pm

vnatale wrote:
Wed Aug 18, 2021 10:48 am

From day one of Trump's presidency it was always clear that the interests of the American people were far distant from the interests of Trump


And the party importing illegal aliens (AKA undocumented Ds) into the US many of whom have covid but who refuse to screen them?

Buy a mirror.


I am an Independent. I could never be beholden to any political party.

I voted for Tulsi Gabbard for president.

Just because one is anti-Trump does not make one a Democrat.

There are degrees of poor politicians. Trump is fairly deep on the wrong end.

False. When have you voted for a Republican? Independents don't always vote Dem


Until George Bush II totally destroyed the Republican brand I would vote for Republicans. Mostly Massachusetts governors.

Here was my tag line from the 2004 election:

"Another independent moderate who voted for a Republican, a Green/Rainbow, an Independent, and two Democrats in the November 2004 elections."

After Bush's Iraq debacle I decided to vote all Democrat in 2006 as a repudiation of him and all his Republican supporters. I think that was the first and only time I ever voted for Senator Kennedy as I had never prior voted for him.



You never answered my few days ago question which was when you last voted for a Democratic anything and for which office?

In the past week I heard a 1 1/2 hour virus press conference with the Mississippi governor and other officials in his administration and I was quite impressed. If he could be a true independent Republican and not a sheep-like Trumplican then I could consider voting for someone like him for president.
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by jalanlong » Wed Aug 18, 2021 3:58 pm

vnatale wrote:
Wed Aug 18, 2021 10:48 am
jalanlong wrote:
Wed Aug 18, 2021 10:27 am
vnatale wrote:
Wed Aug 18, 2021 9:10 am
Kbg wrote:
Tue Aug 17, 2021 11:41 pm
MangoMan wrote:
Tue Aug 17, 2021 12:39 pm
Kbg wrote:
Tue Aug 17, 2021 9:26 am

1. COVID is real.
2. The virus is going to do what it is going to do regardless of our opinions on it.
1. COVID is real: agree.
2. The virus is going to do what it is going to do regardless of our opinions on it: agree.
3. The government is going to do what it is going to do regardless of our opinions on it: you forgot about that part.
Agreed. But let's add it's also crystal clear governments and politicians are responding to those who put them in office in terms of their policies. I think that explains why CA's approach differs from FL's don't you? Trump's approach was one way and he lost the election. Biden's is another and if COVID even matters as an issue if and/or when he runs again, the voters will pass their judgement.

Big picture, I think the most interesting thing going on right now is what corporations are doing. Seems most of them have voted for the vaccine whether their employees like it or not. I'm going to guess if Pfizer gets fully approved in the purported next few weeks or so it's going to be get vax'ed or find another job. At that point, the precedent law for the past century is pretty much on their side.
His gross mid-handling of his response to the virus was THE reason why the voters repudiated him...
Forgetting about Trump's statements early on about the virus being a "nothing burger" that would be gone in a few weeks, what were his specific Covid actions or policies that citizens disagreed with enough to vote him out? He pretty much went the local route of letting individual states decide their Covid restrictions.

As I stated in another thread, here in Texas where the governor is Republican and wants no mask mandates and local Democrat cities want them, Democrats are suddenly in favor of local decisions. Are you saying in this case they didn't want local decisions and wanted a one size fits all approach from Trump?

I have heard a lot of media refer to Trump's "poor handling of the crisis" and you just stated he "grossly mishandled" it. However, I have heard very few detailed criticisms of what exactly he did incorrectly other than the generic "didn't take it seriously" stuff. Other than the feel goods, what exactly do voters feel he handled incorrectly that was worthy of holding him personally responsible for Covid deaths?

Edit: If you are going to say he should have gone the European route of national lockdowns then we can go ahead and end the discussion here since no Republican except perhaps Romney would have done that. I want to know what specifically Trump did that makes his handling so egregious compared to any other person who might have been President caught with this hot potato 10 months before an election.
I will just go with a completely general statement. From day one of Trump's presidency it was always clear that the interests of the American people were far distant from the interests of Trump - which included him being intensely focused on being re-elected.

After the election how focused was he on the virus compared to his continual lying about the election having been stolen?

I could get into a lot more details here but I'm sure they'd all get disputed and brushed aside. Therefore, the time saver for all of us is for me to just stay with my general statement.
Being a Libertarian, I am certainly not a Trump supporter. I can find a ton of Libertarian angles on which to criticize him. However, the majority of the arguments that I heard from the mainstream pundits over his term were about as generic as yours. I heard a lot of stuff about mean tweets, rich businessman and narcissism, but not a lot in the way of specific policies that he handled so poorly as to make Democrats pine for the times of Bush, who as you may remember was Hitler before Trump was Hitler.

I guess I will be a long time waiting for people to point out the specific Covid policies he enacted or failed to enact that any other more "credible" Republican would or would not have done that would have saved the countless lives that people say are on his hands. Your comment was that his mishandling of Covid caused him to lose the election. I guess I would open it up to the forum as to what a Republican president could or should have done getting Covid thrown in their lap 10 months before the election that could have appeased the electorate.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Xan » Wed Aug 18, 2021 4:12 pm

As far as policy goes, perhaps nothing. It's easy in hindsight to say what the right answers should have been. Even now there's a lot we don't know and will never know.

So I'm going to give an answer that you might describe as not concrete enough, and you may be right. He could have done more statesman-like leading of the people. A true leader makes people want to follow him. A position of, "this is a crisis that we're all facing, here's how we're going to get through it together, and here's what we know and don't know" would have rallied a lot of people to his cause.

As it was, he would make random outlandish claims, undermine claims of other officials underneath him, play things up or down for whatever reasons would benefit him personally, completely blew all the optics on himself having the disease, etc.

Imagine Reagan being president at the time this happened, and you'll see something completely different from what we got.

The Covid crisis gave Trump every opportunity to make the election a no-doubter.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by vnatale » Wed Aug 18, 2021 4:32 pm

Texas school district adds masks to dress code, finding possible loophole in Abbott’s ban

https://www.washingtonpost.com/educatio ... de-abbott/
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by pp4me » Wed Aug 18, 2021 4:37 pm

Xan wrote:
Wed Aug 18, 2021 4:12 pm
So I'm going to give an answer that you might describe as not concrete enough, and you may be right. He could have done more statesman-like leading of the people. A true leader makes people want to follow him. A position of, "this is a crisis that we're all facing, here's how we're going to get through it together, and here's what we know and don't know" would have rallied a lot of people to his cause.
I like the "here's what we know and don't know" part but just what could he have proposed for the "here's how we're going to get through it together" part? Other than bullshit like everybody else, I mean.

Except for maybe Cuomo's decision to put elderly patients in nursing homes, I don't think there was anything any politician or government official could have done to make much of a difference. We should bring back the old saying, "Shit Happens".
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by jalanlong » Wed Aug 18, 2021 4:59 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Wed Aug 18, 2021 4:37 pm
Xan wrote:
Wed Aug 18, 2021 4:12 pm
As far as policy goes, perhaps nothing. It's easy in hindsight to say what the right answers should have been. Even now there's a lot we don't know and will never know.

So I'm going to give an answer that you might describe as not concrete enough, and you may be right. He could have done more statesman-like leading of the people. A true leader makes people want to follow him. A position of, "this is a crisis that we're all facing, here's how we're going to get through it together, and here's what we know and don't know" would have rallied a lot of people to his cause.

As it was, he would make random outlandish claims, undermine claims of other officials underneath him, play things up or down for whatever reasons would benefit him personally, completely blew all the optics on himself having the disease, etc.

Imagine Reagan being president at the time this happened, and you'll see something completely different from what we got.

The Covid crisis gave Trump every opportunity to make the election a no-doubter.
This might be accurate if the entire MSM hadn't already painted him to be Hitler 2.0. Literally nothing he could have said would have not been twisted by the media to be something evil.
Imagine if Trump had not allowed states to make their own rules and instead decided to institute mandatory Federal lockdowns to curb the virus? Do you think the Democrats would have agreed with him that it was necessary to save lives? Or would they have then taken the alternate view that he was living up to the fascist that they warned us about and that he cannot take away people's jobs and freedom to see their family etc?
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by jalanlong » Wed Aug 18, 2021 5:35 pm

Xan wrote:
Wed Aug 18, 2021 4:12 pm
As far as policy goes, perhaps nothing. It's easy in hindsight to say what the right answers should have been. Even now there's a lot we don't know and will never know.

So I'm going to give an answer that you might describe as not concrete enough, and you may be right. He could have done more statesman-like leading of the people. A true leader makes people want to follow him. A position of, "this is a crisis that we're all facing, here's how we're going to get through it together, and here's what we know and don't know" would have rallied a lot of people to his cause.

As it was, he would make random outlandish claims, undermine claims of other officials underneath him, play things up or down for whatever reasons would benefit him personally, completely blew all the optics on himself having the disease, etc.

Imagine Reagan being president at the time this happened, and you'll see something completely different from what we got.

The Covid crisis gave Trump every opportunity to make the election a no-doubter.
Fair enough on those points. For sure something like Covid requires a person who can articulate things in a clear and concise manner and can show empathy and those are definitely not things that play to Trump's strengths (whatever those are). I cannot really compare to Reagan because we have a very polarized electorate right now and a media that does not even try to hide their bias. The media were obviously no fan of his back in the day but they tried to at least keep a semblance of impartiality. So Reagan could very well have made perfect positional speeches according to your definition and still been torn apart by the media and half of the electorate in 2020.

Even if Trump had come out and gave the position you indicated, ultimately that has to lead to some sort of action or inaction on his part. This is why we are going to act this way or this is why we are not going to act this way. And that is where I think ultimately it didn't matter. Most any Republican would have avoided Federal lockdowns or Federal mandates which would have left them open to criticism that any deaths were their responsibility for non acting. I certainly would have preferred he been able to articulate why it was better to not do lockdowns and make the other side actually argue against the policy rather than argue against the crazy things he said.

My personal viewpoint is still that even though you are correct about him saying random, outlandish things, I do not believe that rises to Vinnie's claim that he "grossly mishandled" Covid. To me that requires a certain action or inaction on his part, not just an inability to communicate coherently.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by vnatale » Wed Aug 18, 2021 6:57 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Wed Aug 18, 2021 4:39 pm

vnatale wrote:
Wed Aug 18, 2021 4:32 pm

Texas school district adds masks to dress code, finding possible loophole in Abbott’s ban

https://www.washingtonpost.com/educatio ... de-abbott/


As I stated in a previous post, the Dems will just do whatever they want regardless of legality or constitutionality, and just paint it as 'necessary'. Necessary to their agenda, maybe.

And I voted for Bill Clinton, twice, plus Al Gore and John Kerry. I do not regret the Clinton votes, but I do regret the Gore/Kerry votes even tho I did not particularly care for Bush II.


How are these Texas school districts Democrats? First of all, are any school districts of any political party? Secondly, isn't all of Texas Republican aside from the Austin area?

You regret voting for people who were never elected and never did anything in the office?
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Xan » Wed Aug 18, 2021 6:59 pm

vnatale wrote:
Wed Aug 18, 2021 6:57 pm
MangoMan wrote:
Wed Aug 18, 2021 4:39 pm
vnatale wrote:
Wed Aug 18, 2021 4:32 pm
Texas school district adds masks to dress code, finding possible loophole in Abbott’s ban

https://www.washingtonpost.com/educatio ... de-abbott/
As I stated in a previous post, the Dems will just do whatever they want regardless of legality or constitutionality, and just paint it as 'necessary'. Necessary to their agenda, maybe.

And I voted for Bill Clinton, twice, plus Al Gore and John Kerry. I do not regret the Clinton votes, but I do regret the Gore/Kerry votes even tho I did not particularly care for Bush II.
How are these Texas school districts Democrats? First of all, are any school districts of any political party? Secondly, isn't all of Texas Republican aside from the Austin area?

You regret voting for people who were never elected and never did anything in the office?
The big cities all lean blue, most by a slim margin. I'd imagine school districts are pretty heavily blue, at least in any urban area.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by vnatale » Wed Aug 18, 2021 7:12 pm

Xan wrote:
Wed Aug 18, 2021 6:59 pm

vnatale wrote:
Wed Aug 18, 2021 6:57 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Wed Aug 18, 2021 4:39 pm

vnatale wrote:
Wed Aug 18, 2021 4:32 pm

Texas school district adds masks to dress code, finding possible loophole in Abbott’s ban

https://www.washingtonpost.com/educatio ... de-abbott/


As I stated in a previous post, the Dems will just do whatever they want regardless of legality or constitutionality, and just paint it as 'necessary'. Necessary to their agenda, maybe.

And I voted for Bill Clinton, twice, plus Al Gore and John Kerry. I do not regret the Clinton votes, but I do regret the Gore/Kerry votes even tho I did not particularly care for Bush II.


How are these Texas school districts Democrats? First of all, are any school districts of any political party? Secondly, isn't all of Texas Republican aside from the Austin area?

You regret voting for people who were never elected and never did anything in the office?


The big cities all lean blue, most by a slim margin. I'd imagine school districts are pretty heavily blue, at least in any urban area.


In the county in which I live...I do not believe I've ever seen any school board member running as being a member of any political party. Not even when they run for selectpeople or town council members, whatever form of government there may be.
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by jalanlong » Wed Aug 18, 2021 7:40 pm

vnatale wrote:
Wed Aug 18, 2021 6:57 pm

How are these Texas school districts Democrats? First of all, are any school districts of any political party? Secondly, isn't all of Texas Republican aside from the Austin area?
Texas is most definitely not all Republican. Dallas, Houston, San Antonio and Austin, El Paso are all Democrat run. The county where I live in North Dallas has historically been strong Republican but the influx of Californians (amongst other things) has made the county just a strong gust of wind from turning blue. Look at the presidential elections. Romney and McCain won 57 and 55% of the state vote. in 2020 Trump won with 51%. Ted Cruz beat Beto 50-48%. Give it 4-8 more years and Texas will be as blue as the other large states.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by vnatale » Wed Aug 18, 2021 9:38 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Wed Aug 18, 2021 7:51 pm

vnatale wrote:
Wed Aug 18, 2021 6:57 pm


How are these Texas school districts Democrats? First of all, are any school districts of any political party? Secondly, isn't all of Texas Republican aside from the Austin area?

You regret voting for people who were never elected and never did anything in the office?


The first question was already answered by others.
The second: Yes, didn't matter, still regret my choice. I have evolved.


So this Churchill quote may be apt in describing your voting evolution?

“Any man under 30 who is not a liberal has no heart, and any man over thirty who is not a conservative has no brains.”

― Winston S. Churchill
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by vnatale » Wed Aug 18, 2021 10:52 pm

jalanlong wrote:
Wed Aug 18, 2021 3:58 pm



Being a Libertarian, I am certainly not a Trump supporter. I can find a ton of Libertarian angles on which to criticize him. However, the majority of the arguments that I heard from the mainstream pundits over his term were about as generic as yours. I heard a lot of stuff about mean tweets, rich businessman and narcissism, but not a lot in the way of specific policies that he handled so poorly as to make Democrats pine for the times of Bush, who as you may remember was Hitler before Trump was Hitler.

I guess I will be a long time waiting for people to point out the specific Covid policies he enacted or failed to enact that any other more "credible" Republican would or would not have done that would have saved the countless lives that people say are on his hands. Your comment was that his mishandling of Covid caused him to lose the election. I guess I would open it up to the forum as to what a Republican president could or should have done getting Covid thrown in their lap 10 months before the election that could have appeased the electorate.


I will try out this one specific and see what response it gets.

Vinny


Deborah Birx says Trump’s COVID response may have cost 400,000 lives: Did she do enough?
Igor Derysh 3/29/2021

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... r-BB1f5DSk

Multiple task force members revealed, in interviews aired in a CNN special Sunday, that the response was even worse behind the scenes than previously known. Dr. Deborah Birx, who stood alongside Trump at his supposed press briefings and frequently defended the administration's pandemic policies, told the network that she believes the vast majority of the nearly 500,000 deaths could have been prevented with a more aggressive response.

"I look at it this way: The first time, we have an excuse. There were about 100,000 deaths that came from that original surge," she said. "All of the rest of them, in my mind, could have been mitigated or decreased substantially."

Birx said later in the interview that the federal government "did not provide consistent messaging" on the pandemic.

"That was fault No. 1," she said.
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by glennds » Wed Aug 18, 2021 11:29 pm

vnatale wrote:
Wed Aug 18, 2021 7:12 pm


In the county in which I live...I do not believe I've ever seen any school board member running as being a member of any political party. Not even when they run for selectpeople or town council members, whatever form of government there may be.
Vinny,
There are people who believe that the school boards are a direct reflection of the mayor's political affiliation (in a municipality), or the county board of supervisors or other governance (in the case of a county). And if they are defying anti-masking or even promoting masking, then they must be Democrat.
I'm not certain this is necessarily true in all cases though it probably is in some. In my city, the school board waited for a while and just announced this week to implement a mask mandate in defiance of the Governor's anti-mask-mandate-mandate. However our mayor is a registered Independent and presents himself as non-partisan.
So I just cannot tell if the school board's action is patently Democrat, or if it is politically motivated at all.
It is even possible that they are reacting to increasing community spread numbers and they implemented the mandate with student safety as the objective. At least it's a possibility.

Our state has a robust charter school program. So some of the schools defying the anti-mask mandate are private organizations. I do not know how to assess their political affiliation. They do not answer to a school board nor a mayor, and since they contract with the State, you would think they would think twice before defying it.
And then two of the defiant schools are Catholic schools. Same thing, I don't know if I could assess them to be Democrat, but I have noticed that only two Catholic schools defied the mandate while the others did not, so it seems it was not a Catholic system-wide decision either.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by vnatale » Thu Aug 19, 2021 7:54 am

glennds wrote:
Wed Aug 18, 2021 11:29 pm

vnatale wrote:
Wed Aug 18, 2021 7:12 pm



In the county in which I live...I do not believe I've ever seen any school board member running as being a member of any political party. Not even when they run for selectpeople or town council members, whatever form of government there may be.


Vinny,
There are people who believe that the school boards are a direct reflection of the mayor's political affiliation (in a municipality), or the county board of supervisors or other governance (in the case of a county). And if they are defying anti-masking or even promoting masking, then they must be Democrat.
I'm not certain this is necessarily true in all cases though it probably is in some. In my city, the school board waited for a while and just announced this week to implement a mask mandate in defiance of the Governor's anti-mask-mandate-mandate. However our mayor is a registered Independent and presents himself as non-partisan.
So I just cannot tell if the school board's action is patently Democrat, or if it is politically motivated at all.
It is even possible that they are reacting to increasing community spread numbers and they implemented the mandate with student safety as the objective. At least it's a possibility.

Our state has a robust charter school program. So some of the schools defying the anti-mask mandate are private organizations. I do not know how to assess their political affiliation. They do not answer to a school board nor a mayor, and since they contract with the State, you would think they would think twice before defying it.
And then two of the defiant schools are Catholic schools. Same thing, I don't know if I could assess them to be Democrat, but I have noticed that only two Catholic schools defied the mandate while the others did not, so it seems it was not a Catholic system-wide decision either.


I am almost certain in my county that no school board members are appointed by anyone. That all of them are voted in by the voters.
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by glennds » Thu Aug 19, 2021 8:16 am

vnatale wrote:
Thu Aug 19, 2021 7:54 am

I am almost certain in my county that no school board members are appointed by anyone. That all of them are voted in by the voters.
Is there any way for you to deem your school board as being Democrat or Republican?
Or can you confidently say it is non-partisan?
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by vnatale » Thu Aug 19, 2021 8:27 am

glennds wrote:
Thu Aug 19, 2021 8:16 am

vnatale wrote:
Thu Aug 19, 2021 7:54 am


I am almost certain in my county that no school board members are appointed by anyone. That all of them are voted in by the voters.


Is there any way for you to deem your school board as being Democrat or Republican?
Or can you confidently say it is non-partisan?


I think I can confidently say it is non-partisan. They do not run with any party affiliation. All we get is one article in the newspaper in which they are interviewed and give their positions on certain issues. Sometimes in the town next to me some of they will write an short letter to the newspaper which appears on the editorial page, asking for your vote and telling you why you should vote for them. Also, some other people will write letters urging you to vote for certain people. But there are not all that many of these letters.

I generally never vote for any of them in the belief I cannot make an educated vote and leave it to those who I think probably know a lot more about any of them or who might be best qualified to serve. Plus I've never had any children in the school system....I just pay for other people's children.

I never vote for unopposed candidates nor do I vote for anyone who I believe I'm not making an educated vote.
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by WiseOne » Thu Aug 19, 2021 8:28 am

We can answer jalanlong's question another way: If Trump's handling of COVID was so awful (from a policy perspective), then presumably Biden would have immediately changed COVID policy the moment he took office, resulting in an immediate and long-lasting drop in COVID cases. Of course, we know that Biden simply continued the Trump administration COVID policies, i.e. focusing on vaccines and mass testing while avoiding one-size-fits-all lockdown & mask policies. The single exception was instituting mask mandates on federally controlled buildings & transportation. Which had approximately zero effect on the pandemic. This was purely a symbolic move allowing him to claim that he "did something" about COVID that Trump didn't do.

It's sort of like the Democrats' approach to everything: say one thing, but actually do another. Excellent example: home health care. On the one hand, Democrats want to add public benefits to make this easier to obtain, presumably by adding a Medicare benefit for home health aides or some such. But, their net actions have made it MUCH MORE DIFFICULT to get home health care, due to the impact of the enhanced unemployment benefits. Still believe the Democrats care for the common everyday person dealing with economic and social realities??
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