Coronavirus General Discussion

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Mark Leavy
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Mark Leavy » Sat Mar 20, 2021 7:56 pm

In Florida all of the national chain stores are still requiring the employees to mask up. But they aren’t strict. Masks below the nose or pulled down to talk. No requirement for customers to mask up. Whatever. It is the independent merchants that are doing away with masks altogether. The place I’m at tonight doesn’t have a mask in sight. Bartenders, customers, live music.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by jalanlong » Sat Mar 20, 2021 8:09 pm

Tortoise wrote:
Sat Mar 20, 2021 7:41 pm
When I walked into the store yesterday, the guy in front of me had a bandana tied around his neck, but it wasn’t covering his face.

A store employee who was greeting customers as they entered reminded the guy that masks were required, so the guy said, “Oh, sorry” and pulled the bandana up over his face.

Although I don’t know for sure, I got the sense that the guy was “testing” the store to see if they’d bother him for not wearing a mask.

My prediction is that the “mask required” signs outside most stores will remain longer than most customers continue to comply with them. They will eventually be increasingly ignored until they are largely obsolete. Then they will quietly be taken down without much fanfare.
So you think at a certain point the signs will be up but employees will stop enforcing it?

I know some store managers here who claim they would like to not enforce it but if a District Manager or someone from Corporate comes in and catches them not complying then they will be fired on the spot.
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Mark Leavy
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Mark Leavy » Sat Mar 20, 2021 8:31 pm

jalanlong wrote:
Sat Mar 20, 2021 8:09 pm

...
So you think at a certain point the signs will be up but employees will stop enforcing it?

I know some store managers here who claim they would like to not enforce it but if a District Manager or someone from Corporate comes in and catches them not complying then they will be fired on the spot.
I don't know if Florida is a leading indicator or not, but places like Whole Foods, etc. still have mask required signs up, but I just ignore them and don't get any pushback. I would say maybe 5 to 10% of the customers aren't masked in Whole Foods.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Kbg » Sat Mar 20, 2021 8:56 pm

Logically, if you are a business owner I would think there are three main factors.

Legal liability...and you know there are lawyers out there looking to pin a covid libability case on a business owner for not having work policies that follow state and federal guidance. So I would say that one is a complete no-brainer. Follow the guidance to reduce your liability and if you can pin it on an employee not following policy, fire them and point to your written policy.

The other is the predominant politics of where your business is located which probably comes with an associated opinion about the whole mask thing. If you have a business in a liberal state then it's likely the majority of your clientele are pro mask and vice versa.

Finally, if you are in a business related to "health" then you are probably going to go with consensus on what is considered healthy.

Given the above, I think it is entirely rationale that large national chains are going to stay masked up until the lawyers say it's "financially safe" again and it is likely smaller businesses are going to go with the local dynamic.

Thoughts/counter-points?
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Mark Leavy » Sat Mar 20, 2021 9:05 pm

Kbg wrote:
Sat Mar 20, 2021 8:56 pm

Given the above, I think it is entirely rationale that large national chains are going to stay masked up until the lawyers say it's "financially safe" again and it is likely smaller businesses are going to go with the local dynamic.

Thoughts/counter-points?
I think this is 100% correct.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Kriegsspiel » Sat Mar 20, 2021 9:18 pm

Mark Leavy wrote:
Sat Mar 20, 2021 7:56 pm
In Florida all of the national chain stores are still requiring the employees to mask up. But they aren’t strict. Masks below the nose or pulled down to talk.
I haven't worn a mask over my nose since November or so. Nobody has given any kind of shits except random weirdos who think it's a good idea to put "the mask goes over your nose" in their Tinder profiles. I'm also really into the (universally accepted) idea that when you're in your (more or less) work area you don't have to wear a mask because of the force field effect.

The place I’m at tonight doesn’t have a mask in sight. Bartenders, customers, live music.
;D ;D ;D where I am some bars are open, and you can't just drink at the bar and talk to people. The only reason to go to bars is to eat food at a table 6 feet away from anyone else stupid enough to be there.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by glennds » Sat Mar 20, 2021 9:20 pm

Mark Leavy wrote:
Sat Mar 20, 2021 9:05 pm
Kbg wrote:
Sat Mar 20, 2021 8:56 pm

Given the above, I think it is entirely rationale that large national chains are going to stay masked up until the lawyers say it's "financially safe" again and it is likely smaller businesses are going to go with the local dynamic.

Thoughts/counter-points?
I think this is 100% correct.
Furthermore, at least in my state, yes, most businesses, national and local have "mask required" signs.
And no, almost none of them are enforcing it (to the point of denying a customer for not having a mask). Home Depot a good example, yesterday probably 80% masked, 20% not masked, nobody turned away or questioned. Kroger was probably 90/10.

So smart business says have the best of all worlds. Post the signs, make the lawyers, press and scientists happy. But also make the no-maskers happy too.

I've also noticed the vaccinated seem to have much less of a problem with the no mask crowd.

Note: Doctor's office is a whole other ballgame in my area. Mask and temperature checks are non-negotiable. If you don't like it, you can find another doctor.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by dualstow » Sun Mar 21, 2021 7:13 am

I thought it would play out like this: eventually, everyone who wants a vaccine has gotten it.
Rates of infection have dropped severely.
Small stores start making masks optional.
All places stop requiring masks. States and large chains at the same time.
traveling...
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by I Shrugged » Sun Mar 21, 2021 8:01 am

To clarify, I wasn't even saying that masks don't work or anything of the sort. Only that I can't wait for them to be over. And that simple thought is a thought crime.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by dualstow » Sun Mar 21, 2021 8:23 am

I Shrugged wrote:
Sun Mar 21, 2021 8:01 am
To clarify, I wasn't even saying that masks don't work or anything of the sort. Only that I can't wait for them to be over. And that simple thought is a thought crime.
Why don’t you write to your friends and ask them if they feel the same? “I noticed you guys went quiet...” I’ve had an interesting email discussion about politics with a couple who live across the street, but when we’re talking to each other in the middle of said street, neither of us brings up that topic.
traveling...
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Xan » Sun Mar 21, 2021 8:29 am

I Shrugged wrote:
Sun Mar 21, 2021 8:01 am
To clarify, I wasn't even saying that masks don't work or anything of the sort. Only that I can't wait for them to be over. And that simple thought is a thought crime.
With a certain crowd it isn't enough to DO masking, you have to LIKE it too.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by vnatale » Mon Mar 22, 2021 8:35 pm

Two articles for Tortoise (and anyone else who has suffered from the same symptoms) regarding contracting the virus and then subsequent loss or change of smell...

Vinny


If Everything Smells Bad, You’re Not Alone

Parosmia, a condition that causes phantom odors and a lingering symptom of Covid-19 for some people, has been affecting relationships.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/22/styl ... osmia.html?

HEALTH
You Recovered From COVID-19. Now Your Coffee Smells Like Sewage.
The way back from smell loss is its own strange experience.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/arch ... ource=feed
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats."
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Tortoise » Tue Mar 23, 2021 12:58 am

vnatale wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 8:35 pm
Two articles for Tortoise (and anyone else who has suffered from the same symptoms) regarding contracting the virus and then subsequent loss or change of smell...
Yikes... parosmia sounds pretty bad. My anosmia has been bad enough.

About two months after Covid, my smell and taste are probably up to 30% now.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Cortopassi » Tue Mar 23, 2021 7:59 am

Tortoise wrote:
Tue Mar 23, 2021 12:58 am
vnatale wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 8:35 pm
Two articles for Tortoise (and anyone else who has suffered from the same symptoms) regarding contracting the virus and then subsequent loss or change of smell...
Yikes... parosmia sounds pretty bad. My anosmia has been bad enough.

About two months after Covid, my smell and taste are probably up to 30% now.
When I lost my sense of smell from a sinus infection in my 20s (for ~1 year) when it started coming back, it definitely came back wrong.

Yes, smelling things wrong was worse than not smelling at all. I don't recall things smelling bad, just not as expected.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by jalanlong » Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:15 pm

https://catalyst.independent.org/2021/0 ... alization/

35% of Americans think if you test positive for Covid you are hospitalized half the time. Incredible.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by SomeDude » Thu Apr 01, 2021 7:02 pm

jalanlong wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:15 pm
https://catalyst.independent.org/2021/0 ... alization/

35% of Americans think if you test positive for Covid you are hospitalized half the time. Incredible.
Considering Biden got 45% of the real votes that is not a surprise.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Cortopassi » Fri Apr 02, 2021 8:22 am

SomeDude wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 7:02 pm
jalanlong wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:15 pm
https://catalyst.independent.org/2021/0 ... alization/

35% of Americans think if you test positive for Covid you are hospitalized half the time. Incredible.
Considering Biden got 45% of the real votes that is not a surprise.
Still can't get over that, huh? There's already enough politics on this topic... ::)
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Mountaineer » Fri Apr 02, 2021 10:09 am

Cortopassi wrote:
Fri Apr 02, 2021 8:22 am
SomeDude wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 7:02 pm
jalanlong wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:15 pm
https://catalyst.independent.org/2021/0 ... alization/

35% of Americans think if you test positive for Covid you are hospitalized half the time. Incredible.
Considering Biden got 45% of the real votes that is not a surprise.
Still can't get over that, huh? There's already enough politics on this topic... ::)
.

Just sheep following a false shepherd. ;)

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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by sophie » Fri Apr 02, 2021 10:37 am

You'd have to combine the actual results of that survey with the political affiliations in the bar graph to estimate the proportion of Democrat vs Republicans among poll respondents.

That would be an interesting way to sanity-check the 2020 election results, if you can assume that the voter & poll responder population are identical. SomeDude did you do that? I think it would require going to the poll data source to get the raw numbers.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by jalanlong » Fri Apr 02, 2021 12:44 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Fri Apr 02, 2021 8:22 am
SomeDude wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 7:02 pm
jalanlong wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:15 pm
https://catalyst.independent.org/2021/0 ... alization/

35% of Americans think if you test positive for Covid you are hospitalized half the time. Incredible.
Considering Biden got 45% of the real votes that is not a surprise.
Still can't get over that, huh? There's already enough politics on this topic... ::)
Politics aside,it probably does indicate the effect that mass media plays on people’s view of an event. Of note to me was the study they referenced that showed even while in a period when Covid cases were declining the media covered stories of increasing cases 5x more often.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Cortopassi » Thu Apr 15, 2021 9:24 am

I forget if we were posting shots in this topic.... I got my second shot yesterday early afternoon. Was fine, but then started tossing and turning last night.

This morning, my body feels like I ran a marathon without training and I have a pounding headache.

This is why I stopped getting the flu shot.

Man, if they have to have x month/year boosters of this, that is going to suck.

First sick day I have taken from work in years.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by whatchamacallit » Thu Apr 15, 2021 11:08 am

I think single dose is good enough for me.

Study shows at least 80% effective if not just as effective as two doses. It is harder to test how effective first dose would be after couple of months since most people would have received second dose.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by I Shrugged » Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:07 pm

Here's a lefty magazine's article that says that a lot of what was force fed as "the science" was probably wrong. Imagine that! Someone tell Twitter. Executive summary: You can stop sanitizing surfaces and items, and focus on airborne transmission.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... ket-newtab
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Tortoise » Thu Apr 15, 2021 5:04 pm

I Shrugged wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:07 pm
Here's a lefty magazine's article that says that a lot of what was force fed as "the science" was probably wrong. Imagine that! Someone tell Twitter. Executive summary: You can stop sanitizing surfaces and items, and focus on airborne transmission.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... ket-newtab
I've never quite bought the claim that surface transmission of Covid (or any other contagious respiratory virus, for that matter) is negliglible.

If someone infected with Covid sneezes or coughs into their hand, then grabs a doorknob which other people grab just seconds or minutes later, common sense dictates that some virus is going to spread that way. How could it not?

Are we really to believe that every virus particle in a saliva/mucus droplet is instantly deactivated the moment it touches a surface other than a human mucous membrane?

I can buy the idea that if a saliva/mucus droplet sits on a surface for a long time, and perhaps dries out, then maybe most of the virus particles become deactivated. But in the scenario I described above where the sneeze or cough juice is transferred from hand to doorknob to hand within mere seconds or a few minutes, it seems like transmission would be quite likely.

Does common sense just not apply in this situation?
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by barrett » Thu Apr 15, 2021 5:20 pm

Haven't read the Atlantic article, Tortoise, but it seems that your common sense is functioning correctly. My common sense just tells me that the viral load is going to be quite low in the doorknob scenario.

And I don't think I'm the first person to think that maybe repeated low-level exposure to a virus is likely to be a good thing in that it might help build immunity a little bit at a time.

Cortopassi, that sound rough. The bad reaction to the second shot just seems to be so random. I had a couple hours of funkiness the morning after my first Pfizer and nothing after the second dose. I know you are just one data point but is it Moderna that you got?
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