Coronavirus General Discussion

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vnatale
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by vnatale » Sun Sep 19, 2021 6:53 pm

In retrospect...which of these turned out to be either untrue or ineffective for the Spanish Flu? Which ones would not apply now?

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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Hal » Sun Sep 19, 2021 11:17 pm

You may find this interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gaCyNO97NI
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by tomfoolery » Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:45 pm

Well, we hit the milestone. More Americans have been killed from COVID than the 1918 Spanish Flu, and COVID isn't even over yet!


Also, I did the math and the top 1% of Americans have paid more taxes this year compared to ALL taxes from any source paid from the founding of our country until the start of the Spanish Flu. And those rich bastards still haven't paid enough of their fair share or they wouldn't be flying genital-shaped planes into space.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by dualstow » Tue Sep 21, 2021 8:08 am

2015 thread about vaccines and heard immunity.

Great comments from Sophie and Machine Ghost. (i think the daily show link may be broken).

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=6806
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by sophie » Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:58 am

Thanks for resurrecting that dualstow! I was thinking about that....I've done quite an about face on the COVID vaccine, on the face of it.

I don't know if COVID and measles can be compared. Measles vaccine gives you lifetime immunity because the virus doesn't mutate the way coronaviruses do - and the effectiveness is way higher than the COVID vaccine. And, in the case of measles vaccinated people don't spread the virus. The CDC tells us that's not true of COVID, meaning that "herd immunity" simply doesn't apply.

And...the measles vaccine has been around for decades and its effects have been studied extensively. I was nervous about the COVID vaccine being based on new-to-humans technology and rolled out hastily with all kinds of corners being cut. Like the extended clinical trials required to properly assess adverse events and long term effectiveness. Or in the case of J&J, any properly powered clinical trial at all. I didn't disagree with making it available to those at high risk for serious COVID complications, and maybe also to people who want it for whatever reason provided that they are well informed about the risks. The thalidomide story is a more apt analogy than the measles vaccine, frankly.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by dualstow » Tue Sep 21, 2021 2:29 pm

That’s a great follow-up, Sophie. Thank you! Just goes to show how complex this stuff is. Not that it can’t eventually be understood, but there are so many variables and details.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Cortopassi » Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:09 pm

sophie wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:58 am
I've done quite an about face on the COVID vaccine, on the face of it.
Great that you acknowledge that.

I'm pretty sure a lot of people could go back and sift through their posts (FB, here, wherever) and see it was a somewhat kinder, gentler posting world the further back you go, with less hard and fast positions.

Now it's no holds barred, "I'd rather die than change my mind" a lot of times.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Hal » Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:13 pm

Melbourne, Australia is going to be No. 1 O0

Tomorrow, Melbourne takes the world record as the most lockdown city at 235 days. We will beat that by a long margin.
https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2021/0 ... control-2/

https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2021/0 ... arthquake/

It gets better! KFC smuggling :o
https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/poli ... d-auckland
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by whatchamacallit » Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:30 pm

https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/new- ... index.html

Two alleged gang associates found with a car trunk "full of KFC" takeout were arrested as they tried to enter New Zealand's largest city on Sunday in breach of strict coronavirus lockdown rules, according to police.





With this kind of tyranny I would feel like it was my constitutional duty to be arrested. Sheesh.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by boglerdude » Wed Sep 22, 2021 1:35 am

Hundreds of posts about the damage done by covid-burqas and house arrest, and they still cant question if it was necessary: https://old.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comm ... vid19_has/

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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by sweetbthescrivener » Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:25 pm

@boglerdude

All of this gets dismissed so easily by most everyone.

None of it will be vindicated until vaccine status gets tied into bio-metrics which becomes a de facto ID system. If this is then connected to payment systems then the conspiracy theorists are right, only it is too late.

Until that happens, in real life anyway, I am keeping my opinion to myself.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by pp4me » Thu Sep 23, 2021 1:38 pm

30 facts you need to know about COVID....

https://off-guardian.org/2021/09/22/30- ... cribsheet/

I'm not qualified to judge anything in this article so all I can say is that all of the assertions ring true to me.

I think Sophie probably agrees with this one...
PART III: PCR TESTS
11. PCR tests were not designed to diagnose illness. The Reverse-Transcriptase Polymerase Chain Reaction (RT-PCR) test is described in the media as the “gold standard” for Covid diagnosis. But the Nobel Prize-winning inventor of the process never intended it to be used as a diagnostic tool, and said so publicly:

PCR is just a process that allows you to make a whole lot of something out of something. It doesn’t tell you that you are sick, or that the thing that you ended up with was going to hurt you or anything like that.”
And another one about the vaccines. Can anyone deny that this is true, regardless of what you think about the vaccines?
25. The vaccines were rushed and have unknown longterm effects.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by dualstow » Thu Sep 23, 2021 5:21 pm

Hal wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:13 pm

It gets better! KFC smuggling :o
https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/poli ... d-auckland
At once funny and sad
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Kriegsspiel » Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:00 pm

Taylor Lee, FDA Economist: “Go to the unvaccinated and blow it [COVID vaccine] into them. Blow dart it into them.”
Lee: “Census goes door-to-door if you don’t respond. So, we have the infrastructure to do it [forced COVID vaccinations]. I mean, it’ll cost a ton of money. But I think, at that point, I think there needs to be a registry of people who aren’t vaccinated. Although that’s sounding very [much like Nazi] Germany.”
Lee: “Nazi Germany…I mean, think about it like the Jewish Star [for unvaccinated Americans].”
Lee: “So, if you put every anti-vaxxer, like sheep, into like Texas and you closed off Texas from the rest of the world, and you go, ‘Okay, you be you in Texas until we deal with this [pandemic].’”
Taylor Lee, FDA Economist: “I think that a lot of the time -- so there's also this issue of -- I remember reading about how with COVID [vaccine] trials, they were having an issue recruiting African American people. It was because of a different medication the government tried to do that was specifically designed to kill African Americans.”

Veritas Journalist: “Oh, so like a mistrust thing.”

Lee: “Yeah.”

Veritas Journalist: “But this thing [COVID vaccine] is safe, though.”

Lee: “We know that now, but like again, I think there is still this big mistrust and like it's deep-rooted.”

Veritas Journalist: “Yeah. Can’t blame them [African Americans].”

Lee: “I can’t. But at the same time, like, blow dart. That’s where we’re going.”
https://www.projectveritas.com/news/fda ... here-were/

Hmm. It seems like some evil people work at the FDA. It's good to know one of them by name.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by dualstow » Thu Sep 23, 2021 7:23 pm

Holy shite.
What # drink was he on?
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Hal » Thu Sep 23, 2021 7:42 pm

dualstow wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 5:21 pm
Hal wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:13 pm

It gets better! KFC smuggling :o
https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/poli ... d-auckland
At once funny and sad
You want sad..
https://www.rebelnews.com/police_deploy ... _melbourne

The Gov't hypocrisy is amazing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DiF7khB0lI

PS: Out of curiosity, what would happen in the USA if a state went full Nazi, declared a state of emergency and closed the borders? Does the constitution/bill of rights provide any real protection?
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by pp4me » Fri Sep 24, 2021 1:26 pm

Hal wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 7:42 pm
PS: Out of curiosity, what would happen in the USA if a state went full Nazi, declared a state of emergency and closed the borders? Does the constitution/bill of rights provide any real protection?
I think only Hawaii and Alaska could get away with that, logistically speaking. In fact, I think both states did try to close their borders to a large extent during the height of the pandemic.

But why do you call it full Nazi? The Iron curtain and Berlin wall were communist things.

As for the Bill of RIghts it's just words on paper and offers no protection at all if there isn't a government in place and willing to enforce it.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by pp4me » Fri Sep 24, 2021 2:43 pm

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/2021 ... oft-drinks

I saw a link to a similar article this morning on the MSN feed which you get if Bing is your default search engine. I was going to share it but it disappeared quickly and I had to find another one.

Kids who want to stay home from school have apparently discovered that drinking soda or an acidic juice can give you a positive PCR test.

And I guess that's considered a COVID "case" in the statistics?
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Hal » Fri Sep 24, 2021 4:44 pm

pp4me wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 1:26 pm
As for the Bill of RIghts it's just words on paper and offers no protection at all if there isn't a government in place and willing to enforce it.
So the Federal Gov't in the USA, in practice, wouldn't do anything if a state didn't obey the bill of rights? Don't want to get too off topic, but this has really piqued my interest.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Xan » Fri Sep 24, 2021 4:55 pm

Hal wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 4:44 pm
pp4me wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 1:26 pm
As for the Bill of RIghts it's just words on paper and offers no protection at all if there isn't a government in place and willing to enforce it.
So the Federal Gov't in the USA, in practice, wouldn't do anything if a state didn't obey the bill of rights? Don't want to get too off topic, but this has really piqued my interest.
I believe pp4me's point is that if enough of the people in power actually don't care to protect some right, then it won't be protected, regardless of what the Bill of Rights says.

Actually your question brings up a whole host of interesting issues. The Bill of Rights was a constraint on the federal government against the states. The states were not bound by the Bill of Rights at all. For example, at the time the Bill of Rights was drafted, at least one state had an established church.

Only after the revolution of 1865 established a different form of government through the 14th Amendment did the Bill of Rights start applying to states, in a kind of undefined, piecemeal way, court decision by court decision.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by pp4me » Sat Sep 25, 2021 11:16 am

Xan wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 4:55 pm
I believe pp4me's point is that if enough of the people in power actually don't care to protect some right, then it won't be protected, regardless of what the Bill of Rights says.
Yeah, that's what I meant.

Also, it's up to the Supreme Court to interpret the text and determine whether or not the Bill of Rights applies in specific situations. So all you need are enough activist judges on the court and they can say it means whatever they want. They find new rights like abortion and gay marriage in penumbras and emanations and they can do the same thing to limit rights. A famous example of that was the "can't yell fire in a crowded theater" decision to limit free speech. That decision was actually used against WW1 anti-war protestors. A more recent example was the decision that went against the baker who refused to bake a cake for a gay wedding. Even with what is supposed to be a conservative court, they apparently decided that the gay marriage right which was nowhere to be found in the text trumped the baker's explicit right to freedom of religion.

In other words, I guess I'm saying that the idea that the idea of the Bill of Rights guarantees us anything is a complete fiction. It was a noble attempt to limit the power of the government, maybe the best that could be done, but when all is said and done, the government (and that includes the Supreme Court), still has us by the balls and always will as long as there is a government. They make the laws, interpret the laws, and enforce the laws (or choose not to in some cases like the border).

Veering back on topic however, I'm not aware that any of the COVID stuff, lockdowns, mandates, etc, has made it all the way to the Supreme Court yet but my guess is that even this conservative Supreme Court will pretty much let the governments get away with whatever they want to do because of the pandemic.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by I Shrugged » Sat Sep 25, 2021 7:22 pm

pp4me wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 11:16 am
Xan wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 4:55 pm
I believe pp4me's point is that if enough of the people in power actually don't care to protect some right, then it won't be protected, regardless of what the Bill of Rights says.
Yeah, that's what I meant.

Also, it's up to the Supreme Court to interpret the text and determine whether or not the Bill of Rights applies in specific situations. So all you need are enough activist judges on the court and they can say it means whatever they want. They find new rights like abortion and gay marriage in penumbras and emanations and they can do the same thing to limit rights. A famous example of that was the "can't yell fire in a crowded theater" decision to limit free speech. That decision was actually used against WW1 anti-war protestors. A more recent example was the decision that went against the baker who refused to bake a cake for a gay wedding. Even with what is supposed to be a conservative court, they apparently decided that the gay marriage right which was nowhere to be found in the text trumped the baker's explicit right to freedom of religion.

In other words, I guess I'm saying that the idea that the idea of the Bill of Rights guarantees us anything is a complete fiction. It was a noble attempt to limit the power of the government, maybe the best that could be done, but when all is said and done, the government (and that includes the Supreme Court), still has us by the balls and always will as long as there is a government. They make the laws, interpret the laws, and enforce the laws (or choose not to in some cases like the border).

Veering back on topic however, I'm not aware that any of the COVID stuff, lockdowns, mandates, etc, has made it all the way to the Supreme Court yet but my guess is that even this conservative Supreme Court will pretty much let the governments get away with whatever they want to do because of the pandemic.
They ruled against the rent moratorium. Probably not in the category you were contemplating.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by pp4me » Sat Sep 25, 2021 7:42 pm

I Shrugged wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 7:22 pm
pp4me wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 11:16 am
Xan wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 4:55 pm
I believe pp4me's point is that if enough of the people in power actually don't care to protect some right, then it won't be protected, regardless of what the Bill of Rights says.
Yeah, that's what I meant.

Also, it's up to the Supreme Court to interpret the text and determine whether or not the Bill of Rights applies in specific situations. So all you need are enough activist judges on the court and they can say it means whatever they want. They find new rights like abortion and gay marriage in penumbras and emanations and they can do the same thing to limit rights. A famous example of that was the "can't yell fire in a crowded theater" decision to limit free speech. That decision was actually used against WW1 anti-war protestors. A more recent example was the decision that went against the baker who refused to bake a cake for a gay wedding. Even with what is supposed to be a conservative court, they apparently decided that the gay marriage right which was nowhere to be found in the text trumped the baker's explicit right to freedom of religion.

In other words, I guess I'm saying that the idea that the idea of the Bill of Rights guarantees us anything is a complete fiction. It was a noble attempt to limit the power of the government, maybe the best that could be done, but when all is said and done, the government (and that includes the Supreme Court), still has us by the balls and always will as long as there is a government. They make the laws, interpret the laws, and enforce the laws (or choose not to in some cases like the border).

Veering back on topic however, I'm not aware that any of the COVID stuff, lockdowns, mandates, etc, has made it all the way to the Supreme Court yet but my guess is that even this conservative Supreme Court will pretty much let the governments get away with whatever they want to do because of the pandemic.
They ruled against the rent moratorium. Probably not in the category you were contemplating.
And then, if memory serves me right even though it wasn't long ago, the Biden administration came up with a work around and said they would continue to do it any way.
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by Hal » Sat Sep 25, 2021 8:57 pm

pp4me wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 7:42 pm
I Shrugged wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 7:22 pm
pp4me wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 11:16 am
Xan wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 4:55 pm
I believe pp4me's point is that if enough of the people in power actually don't care to protect some right, then it won't be protected, regardless of what the Bill of Rights says.
Yeah, that's what I meant.

Also, it's up to the Supreme Court to interpret the text and determine whether or not the Bill of Rights applies in specific situations. So all you need are enough activist judges on the court and they can say it means whatever they want. They find new rights like abortion and gay marriage in penumbras and emanations and they can do the same thing to limit rights. A famous example of that was the "can't yell fire in a crowded theater" decision to limit free speech. That decision was actually used against WW1 anti-war protestors. A more recent example was the decision that went against the baker who refused to bake a cake for a gay wedding. Even with what is supposed to be a conservative court, they apparently decided that the gay marriage right which was nowhere to be found in the text trumped the baker's explicit right to freedom of religion.

In other words, I guess I'm saying that the idea that the idea of the Bill of Rights guarantees us anything is a complete fiction. It was a noble attempt to limit the power of the government, maybe the best that could be done, but when all is said and done, the government (and that includes the Supreme Court), still has us by the balls and always will as long as there is a government. They make the laws, interpret the laws, and enforce the laws (or choose not to in some cases like the border).

Veering back on topic however, I'm not aware that any of the COVID stuff, lockdowns, mandates, etc, has made it all the way to the Supreme Court yet but my guess is that even this conservative Supreme Court will pretty much let the governments get away with whatever they want to do because of the pandemic.
They ruled against the rent moratorium. Probably not in the category you were contemplating.
And then, if memory serves me right even though it wasn't long ago, the Biden administration came up with a work around and said they would continue to do it any way.
Thanks for explaining that guys. Good background as I am watching Ken Burns Civil War series while in lockdown. Attached link for comparison => https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAtn08gk2Yk
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Re: Coronavirus General Discussion

Post by vnatale » Sun Sep 26, 2021 7:17 pm

Last week I listened to a 1 1/4 hour podcast interview with the author of the below book.

If any of you want to listen to it...let me know and I will find it again on iTunes.

I think that no matter where you stand on any aspect of this virus...you will find agreement in many things he has to say.

In the next post I will post a long except from the beginning pages of the book to give you an idea of both that podcast and the book.

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