Confirmed I would assume.
As I also assume that not all 4.7m are regularly tested.
Moderator: Global Moderator
Confirmed I would assume.
And more wide-spread testing and knowledge about the virus.dualstow wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 6:21 pm
The short answer is that you may be asymptomatic, appearing to be healthy, and spreading the disease to enough people that you will quite literally kill some of them, whereas if you had stayed home, they would not be dead.
I’m not arguing against the notion that the lockdown is hurting the economy. It really is. But that’s the answer to your question.
To phrase it a different way, a young, asymptomatic, dude needs to stay locked up because an irresponsibly non-social distancing old person might get sick and die.dualstow wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 6:21 pm
The short answer is that you may be asymptomatic, appearing to be healthy, and spreading the disease to enough people that you will quite literally kill some of them, whereas if you had stayed home, they would not be dead.
I’m not arguing against the notion that the lockdown is hurting the economy. It really is. But that’s the answer to your question.
I think janalong's point is that unless some vaccine/cure comes along, the lockdown is only buying those people a few weeks, at an extreme cost. That cost has come to be known as "the economy" but it's actually much bigger than that: it's the whole of society, of which the economy is a part.dualstow wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 6:21 pm
The short answer is that you may be asymptomatic, appearing to be healthy, and spreading the disease to enough people that you will quite literally kill some of them, whereas if you had stayed home, they would not be dead.
I’m not arguing against the notion that the lockdown is hurting the economy. It really is. But that’s the answer to your question.
kriegsspiel wrote: except for all the people who are either susceptible or afraid who "need to be protected from them" because of their unwillingness to protect themselves.
Yes, that was my point although I didn't make it that clear. I understand the concept of distancing etc. But I don't understand the end game.Xan wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 7:19 pmI think janalong's point is that unless some vaccine/cure comes along, the lockdown is only buying those people a few weeks, at an extreme cost. That cost has come to be known as "the economy" but it's actually much bigger than that: it's the whole of society, of which the economy is a part.dualstow wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 6:21 pm
The short answer is that you may be asymptomatic, appearing to be healthy, and spreading the disease to enough people that you will quite literally kill some of them, whereas if you had stayed home, they would not be dead.
I’m not arguing against the notion that the lockdown is hurting the economy. It really is. But that’s the answer to your question.
Isn't grocery delivery an option in NYC? I personally know someone (other than our beloved Vinny) who hasn't left his house for 8 weeks straight -- no trips to the grocery store or take-out. All delivery.
I actually haven't been wearing a mask when I go for my daily walks, because in my neighborhood in CA it's easy to stay more than 6 feet away from everyone at all times (sometimes by stepping into the road or crossing the street). Our local law requires us to wear masks only if we have to get closer than 6 feet to other people, like in most stores.
Ugh, FINE. You are allowed food. But other places that are closed to everyone right now are off limits. No movies or restaurants for you!
Makes me think of this article,ADDED:
I’d be fine if the joggers were at least wearing a mask, like I’m wearing a mask. Not around the neck, but actually covering the nose and mouth.
To grasp the urgency of lifting the ubiquitous economic shutdowns, visit New York City’s Central Park, ideally in the morning. At 5:45 am, it is occupied by maybe 100 runners and cyclists, spread over 843 acres. A large portion of these early-bird exercisers wear masks. Are they trying to protect anyone they might encounter from their own unsuspected coronavirus infection? Perhaps. But if you yourself run towards an oncoming runner on a vector that will keep you at least three yards away when you pass each other, he is likely to lunge sideways in terror if your face is not covered. The masked cyclists, who speed around the park’s inner road, apparently think that there are enough virus particles suspended in the billions of square feet of fresh air circulating across the park to enter their mucous membranes and to sicken them.
These are delusional beliefs, yet they demonstrate the degree of paranoia that has infected the population. Every day the lockdown continues, its implicit message that we are all going to die if we engage in normal life is reinforced. Polls show an increasing number of Americans opting to continue the economic quarantine indefinitely lest they be ‘unsafe’.
Given there is no vaccine against the cold and flu viruses, I find it interesting all the talk about a vaccine for COVID19. Is it just wishful thinking? How long are people going to hold out before giving up?
Yesterday for me was the 8th week anniversary of me bringing in ANY outside food to my house. I've been living off the stock I had prior to then. All stock that was just my normal buying pattern of clearing the shelves when a particular item was on sale. All the 8th week anniversary of other things - like leaving my property. I did finally back my car out of the garage last week and let it run for 5 minutes.
Not really hardcore. Just a super extreme introvert whose lifestyle is well suited to put up with this while feeling little deprivation.
Dualstow, I'm curious to hear your thoughts on this article that someone posted elsewhere:dualstow wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2020 9:17 am Used to teach English, and getting by on investments these days. Again, I’m not trying to use my own choice as something to impose on everyone else. I just wish people would honor the lockdown while it lasts, like wearing a mask if the state calls for it. As opposed to I’m an anarchist, and I don’t trust the government about other things, anyway. I’m smarter than the government, so I think I’ll do what’s right for me.
This is starting to remind of the anti-vaxxer movement in more ways than one. (1) This is a lot less effective when a critical amount of people doesn’t cooperate, and (2) the reason for not cooperating is tied to nefarious ulterior motives of the government.
As for how long we’re going to self-quarantine, I just don’t know, Pug. We’ll see how it goes.
I think I mentioned it on here before, but I'm a big fan of how places like Japan wear masks when they're sick, as a cultural courtesy to people they encounter during the day. Watching videos from Japan on the toobz, it doesn't really look like people avoid them that much, it's kind of normal. They'd be doing interviews of a few people, and one of them is wearing a mask, no problem. I'm assuming that's the culture you said has finally changed. But again, I thought what she was calling paranoid is the belief that the people NOT wearing masks are the ones to be afraid of.dualstow wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2020 8:53 am I like Heather McDonald, that's kind of an annoying article. Masks are policy in many places, not paranoia. It feels like just yesterday that Americans with masks were the ones everyone avoided. It was assumed that they were sick. Finally, finally, the culture has changed, so now that people are at least making an effort to keep their fluids to themselves, they get called paranoid? Perfect.
It's quite 2020, isn't it?Everyone's trying a little too hard to sound clever. And now, like everything else, it's getting politicized and divided that way.
There is certainly an aspect of "don't tell me what to do" involved in the protests. But as far as "honoring the lockdown while it lasts", can you not see how people who have lost jobs and are unable to pay for shelter and food or small business owners who have lost months of income would be struggling to just "follow orders" while their life is crumbling in front of them? In certain political circles I have seen anyone in favor of reopening labelled as selfish. But to me, to demand to sit at home and force others to do the same while certain essential workers make sure your daily needs are met seems to be the height of selfishness.dualstow wrote: ↑Wed May 13, 2020 9:17 am Used to teach English, and getting by on investments these days. Again, I’m not trying to use my own choice as something to impose on everyone else. I just wish people would honor the lockdown while it lasts, like wearing a mask if the state calls for it. As opposed to I’m an anarchist, and I don’t trust the government about other things, anyway. I’m smarter than the government, so I think I’ll do what’s right for me.
This is starting to remind of the anti-vaxxer movement in more ways than one. (1) This is a lot less effective when a critical amount of people doesn’t cooperate, and (2) the reason for not cooperating is tied to nefarious ulterior motives of the government.
As for how long we’re going to self-quarantine, I just don’t know, Pug. We’ll see how it goes.