Would you wear a mask?

Other discussions not related to the Permanent Portfolio

Moderator: Global Moderator

Would you wear a mask, if available, to the grocery store tomorrow?

Poll ended at Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:59 pm

Yes
16
59%
No
11
41%
 
Total votes: 27
pp4me
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1190
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2020 4:12 pm

Re: Would you wear a mask?

Post by pp4me » Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:00 am

If there was one good thing about the masks, lockdowns, forced closures of "non-essential" businesses, and mandatory vaccines it's that it seems to have reminded a lot of people of the quote from Benjamin Franklin, "“Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.” (I thought that was Jefferson until I looked it up, BTW).

Not all, of course. Most still worship at the feet of leviathin as long as he promises to keep us safe and they even have what feels like a growing disdain for those who do not follow the herd.

Along with all the corruption, censorship, fake news, etc, from the conglomerate of big government, big media, and big tech, I have a sense that this is waking a lot of people up.

Here in Florida, imagine what the difference would have been during the pandemic if Jeb Bush was still governor instead of Ron DeSantis. I suspect we would still be locked down by this Republican governor.
User avatar
Mountaineer
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 4959
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:54 am

Re: Would you wear a mask?

Post by Mountaineer » Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:02 am

Mark Leavy wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 6:02 pm
Mountaineer wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 5:52 pm
Why do you say that?
Well, you’re a smart man.
Thanks, but no more than the 1%. 😉

And a chemist.
No. Chemical Engineer. WAY different! 🤓

And a hard scientist.
Yes. But when I was a lot younger. 👍🏼

So I suspect that you know it was a bit in jest. But only semi-jest.
Hmmmmm. 🤡


In very crude terms you shouldn’t give a damn what the unvaccinated do if you are vaccinated.
But you do.
At about the same degree I care about others welfare on most things. 😇

Thus…. the vaccine isn’t all that and a bag of crisps.
I don’t really get your meaning on this. 🧐
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
User avatar
Xan
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 4392
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:51 pm

Re: Would you wear a mask?

Post by Xan » Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:18 am

I believe Mark's point is that if the vaccine worked, the behavior of the unvaccinated wouldn't affect the vaccinated, and so if anybody who's vaccinated complains about people being unvaccinated, that makes them vaccine deniers.

Of course this point of view relies on a number of flawed assumptions, the most glaring being that a vaccine must be either perfect or worthless.
flyingpylon
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1102
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:04 am

Re: Would you wear a mask?

Post by flyingpylon » Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:20 am

Xan wrote:
Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:18 am
I believe Mark's point is that if the vaccine worked, the behavior of the unvaccinated wouldn't affect the vaccinated, and so if anybody who's vaccinated complains about people being unvaccinated, that makes them vaccine deniers.

Of course this point of view relies on a number of flawed assumptions, the most glaring being that a vaccine must be either perfect or worthless.
It depends on the definition of "vaccine"...
User avatar
vnatale
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 9422
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:56 pm
Location: Massachusetts
Contact:

Re: Would you wear a mask?

Post by vnatale » Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:30 am

I went to the Rutgers / University of Massachusetts basketball game on Saturday (held at the latter's campus).

I was quite surprised to see that we were all required to wear masks when inside. There seemed to be 100% compliance. I heard one event staff person say to someone during the game ....."keep your mask covering your face."

We later went to a pizza place. As soon as I walked in a woman employee asked me if I had a mask.

Amherst is the county next to mine. Seems like many towns in that county have different mask wearing rules than many of the towns in my county.
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
User avatar
Mountaineer
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 4959
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:54 am

Re: Would you wear a mask?

Post by Mountaineer » Mon Nov 29, 2021 12:07 pm

vnatale wrote:
Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:30 am
I went to the Rutgers / University of Massachusetts basketball game on Saturday (held at the latter's campus).

I was quite surprised to see that we were all required to wear masks when inside. There seemed to be 100% compliance. I heard one event staff person say to someone during the game ....."keep your mask covering your face."

We later went to a pizza place. As soon as I walked in a woman employee asked me if I had a mask.

Amherst is the county next to mine. Seems like many towns in that county have different mask wearing rules than many of the towns in my county.
This gets more to what I was commenting on in my response to Dualstow: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=10580&p=235739#p235714

It's the flagrant narcissism that pushes my buttons, not just on mask wearing, it's more on people choosing on their own to not follow the rules of a business establishment, or the government.

My view is if one does not choose to follow the rules (and I'm not talking about paying taxes) then don't frequent the establishment. It's everything from running red lights, to catch and release at our borders, to going out in public when you are sick and coughing in someone's face. My hypothesis is the narcissism is fine tuned partly due to people being on their devices 24/7 and not interacting with other people. Whatever happened to enjoying a chat in the front yard with a neighbor instead of sitting in the basement glued to a video game? We are losing the joy of intimate contact with other humans and losing respect for other humans with an over abundance of "I'm the most important person on the planet and don't you forget it; it's all about me dude". I'm all for not having things mandated, but at the same time I'm all for personal responsibility in following established laws and business guidelines that are put in place by those people the voters picked or established by the business owner whenever possible.

If a town wishes to have local ordinances that are different from the next town over, so what? If one restaurant or sports arena wants to have everyone enter wearing a mask and then taking it off only when eating/drinking, and another requires no masks, so what? I may think it's quite stupid one way or the other, but so what? I'm not the king of anything, especially you. :)

As for the vaccinated or unvaccinated - personal choice, but realize that either way comes with consequences, likely some that are unintended.

Aretha had it right: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FOUqQt3Kg0
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
User avatar
dualstow
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 14227
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:18 am
Location: synagogue of Satan
Contact:

Re: Would you wear a mask?

Post by dualstow » Mon Nov 29, 2021 2:48 pm

Yes, there is a little bit of “rules for thee and not for me” with those who just dispense with the rules on the train, Mountaineer. 🖖

I mean, compared to the lockdowns that Hal has kept us informed of in Aus and in China that my wife tells me about, the whole mask thing feels like a joke. But still…
The dude blasting the ball game on the train wasn’t going to kill me either, but it still pissed me off. O0
RIP Marcello Gandini
pp4me
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1190
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2020 4:12 pm

Re: Would you wear a mask?

Post by pp4me » Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:41 pm

Mountaineer wrote:
Mon Nov 29, 2021 12:07 pm
It's the flagrant narcissism that pushes my buttons, not just on mask wearing, it's more on people choosing on their own to not follow
As a Christian, don't you have any problem passing judgment on other people as "flagrant narcissiists"? I think Jesus had a few things to say about that.

I know it says in the book of Romans (I think -chapter 13?) "The powers that be are ordained by God" and should therefore be obeyed as your Christian duty.

If you were a Lutheran living in Germany in the 1930's would you have followed that dictum? The early Christians didn't even obey it when it came to worshipping Caeser so who are you to decide and under what principles do your feel free to to judge other people?

I'm not comparing those issuing mandatory mask wearing and vaccines to Nazis, just pointing out that this isn't as clear cut as you think it is to justify your judgment against others.
User avatar
Mountaineer
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 4959
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:54 am

Re: Would you wear a mask?

Post by Mountaineer » Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:56 pm

pp4me wrote:
Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:41 pm
Mountaineer wrote:
Mon Nov 29, 2021 12:07 pm
It's the flagrant narcissism that pushes my buttons, not just on mask wearing, it's more on people choosing on their own to not follow
As a Christian, don't you have any problem passing judgment on other people as "flagrant narcissiists"? I think Jesus had a few things to say about that.

I know it says in the book of Romans (I think -chapter 13?) "The powers that be are ordained by God" and should therefore be obeyed as your Christian duty.

If you were a Lutheran living in Germany in the 1930's would you have followed that dictum? The early Christians didn't even obey it when it came to worshipping Caeser so who are you to decide and under what principles do your feel free to to judge other people?

I'm not comparing those issuing mandatory mask wearing and vaccines to Nazis, just pointing out that this isn't as clear cut as you think it is to justify your judgment against others.
The question is who is going to be God? Sinful narcissistic self-justifying man, or Jesus who says love thy neighbor? Principles by which to judge? Scripture of course! Not man’s self serving interests or self righteousness. YMMV.
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
User avatar
Kriegsspiel
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 4052
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 5:28 pm

Re: Would you wear a mask?

Post by Kriegsspiel » Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:06 pm

pp4me wrote:
Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:41 pm
If you were a Lutheran living in Germany in the 1930's would you have followed that dictum? The early Christians didn't even obey it when it came to worshipping Caeser so who are you to decide and under what principles do your feel free to to judge other people?

I'm not comparing those issuing mandatory mask wearing and vaccines to Nazis, just pointing out that this isn't as clear cut as you think it is to justify your judgment against others.
I don't know about the religion stuff, but check out this quote from Goebbels:
Up to now we have succeeded in leaving the enemy in the dark concerning Germany's real goals, just as before 1932 our domestic foes never saw where we were going or that our oath of legality was just a trick. We wanted to come to power legally, but we did not want to use power legally . . . They could have suppressed us. They could have arrested a couple of us in 1925 and that would have been that, the end. No, they let us through the danger zone. That's exactly how it was in foreign policy too . . . In 1933 a French premier ouch to have said (and if I had been the French premier I would have said it): "The new Reich Chancellor is the man who wrote Mein Kampf, which says this and that. This man cannot be tolerated in our vicinity. Either he disappears or we march!" But they didn't do it. They left us alone and let us slip through the risky zone, and we were able to sail around all dangerous reefs. And when we were done, and well armed, better than they, then we started the war.
- Hilgruber, Germany In The Two World Wars
That's what I was getting at in the other thread when I said
Kriegsspiel wrote:
Sun Nov 14, 2021 6:29 am
Is it better to "suck it up" and comply with all of the government edicts (locking down for 15 days... then one more week... put this mask on... then until 4th of July... wait no that's cancelled too... until Thanksgiving... 2 masks at a time now... until half the population is vaccinated... now 75%... now 100%), get an injection and present your papers or else you lose your job/position in society... or you can't come into this store... and you can't participate in government... thinking that compliance would lead to life getting better/returning to normal?

Or would it have been better if people had immediately revolted against government officials, slashing health inspectors tires if they tried to fine a pub, refusing to ever wear a mask/mask shaming, protesting every politician in favor of it, etc? So that politicians and technocrats were sent an unambitious signal that people would not tolerate this overreach for one bit, much less 18 months and counting?
IMO, it's undeniable that a lot of countries happen to have people in positions of power who are susceptible to Nazi-like behavior when the right psychological triggers are tripped. Or maybe they didn't get a mental circuit tripped, but rather were always like that and were waiting on the right circumstances to begin.
You there, Ephialtes. May you live forever.
User avatar
jalanlong
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 829
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:30 am

Re: Would you wear a mask?

Post by jalanlong » Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:47 pm

Mountaineer wrote:
Mon Nov 29, 2021 12:07 pm
vnatale wrote:
Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:30 am
I went to the Rutgers / University of Massachusetts basketball game on Saturday (held at the latter's campus).

I was quite surprised to see that we were all required to wear masks when inside. There seemed to be 100% compliance. I heard one event staff person say to someone during the game ....."keep your mask covering your face."

We later went to a pizza place. As soon as I walked in a woman employee asked me if I had a mask.

Amherst is the county next to mine. Seems like many towns in that county have different mask wearing rules than many of the towns in my county.
This gets more to what I was commenting on in my response to Dualstow: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=10580&p=235739#p235714

It's the flagrant narcissism that pushes my buttons, not just on mask wearing, it's more on people choosing on their own to not follow the rules of a business establishment, or the government.

My view is if one does not choose to follow the rules (and I'm not talking about paying taxes) then don't frequent the establishment. It's everything from running red lights, to catch and release at our borders, to going out in public when you are sick and coughing in someone's face. My hypothesis is the narcissism is fine tuned partly due to people being on their devices 24/7 and not interacting with other people. Whatever happened to enjoying a chat in the front yard with a neighbor instead of sitting in the basement glued to a video game? We are losing the joy of intimate contact with other humans and losing respect for other humans with an over abundance of "I'm the most important person on the planet and don't you forget it; it's all about me dude". I'm all for not having things mandated, but at the same time I'm all for personal responsibility in following established laws and business guidelines that are put in place by those people the voters picked or established by the business owner whenever possible.

If a town wishes to have local ordinances that are different from the next town over, so what? If one restaurant or sports arena wants to have everyone enter wearing a mask and then taking it off only when eating/drinking, and another requires no masks, so what? I may think it's quite stupid one way or the other, but so what? I'm not the king of anything, especially you. :)

As for the vaccinated or unvaccinated - personal choice, but realize that either way comes with consequences, likely some that are unintended.

Aretha had it right: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FOUqQt3Kg0

https://www.kalw.org/news/2021-11-22/sa ... sk-mandate

Do you feel the same way about wearing a mask in your home if you lived in Santa Cruz and your govt required it? I mean you could sell your house and move to a neighboring county I guess. Is it narcissistic of me to ignore my government’s edicts inside my own home? Where exactly is the line between me wanting to make my own choices in life and being “narcissistic”?
Last edited by jalanlong on Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Mountaineer
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 4959
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:54 am

Re: Would you wear a mask?

Post by Mountaineer » Tue Nov 30, 2021 5:38 am

jalanlong wrote:
Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:47 pm

Do yoy feel the same way about wearing a mask in your home if you lived in Santa Cruz and your govt required it? I mean you could sell your house and move to a neighboring county I guess. Is it narcissistic of me to ignore my government’s edicts inside my own home? Where exactly is the line between me wanting to make my own choices in life and being “narcissistic”?
Or you could champion a recall of the people that put this policy in place; but we all know how effective recalls are in the land of fruits and nuts. ;)

Re. the narcissistic line question - Do an objective assessment of a subjective disorder, or a subjective assessment of an objective question (re. the 'exactly' statement)? But then again, a narcissistist would want a perfect score to be sure, or would be pissed at those who came up with such a stupid nebulous test or symptoms description instead of using common sense; or would need to pass the bill so we would know what's in it. Or, one could inquire of Obama who drew a red line and then blinked when it was crossed. :)
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-con ... c-20366662

Now, I need to mask up even though I'm boosted. I'm off to the other room and there could be crickets to protect. ;D

Blessings, and hope you have a marvelous day.
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
User avatar
Maddy
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1694
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2015 8:43 am

Re: Would you wear a mask?

Post by Maddy » Tue Nov 30, 2021 5:52 am

Mountaineer wrote:
Mon Nov 29, 2021 12:07 pm
It's the flagrant narcissism that pushes my buttons, not just on mask wearing, it's more on people choosing on their own to not follow the rules of a business establishment, or the government.

My view is if one does not choose to follow the rules (and I'm not talking about paying taxes) then don't frequent the establishment. . . . I'm all for not having things mandated, but at the same time I'm all for personal responsibility in following established laws and business guidelines that are put in place by those people the voters picked or established by the business owner whenever possible.
The vast majority of businesses that have adopted mask and vaccine mandates have done so in direct response to national or regional public health directives. Those directives penalize, or threaten to penalize, non-compliant businesses with fines of a magnitude that could easily crush a small business. Others penalize noncompliance with the denial, or threatened denial, of essential permits and licenses. The resulting rules are the product of a flatly unconstitutional melding of private and public interests to the point where the rules of a private establishment are, in essence, the rules of the government itself. And the blatantly illegal nature of this type of government overreach is beyond doubt.

I'll tell you what pushes my buttons: For years all the Christian community had to say about this blatant government overreach was to quote Romans and to parrot the viewpoint of a evangelical commentator John McArthur, whose message was to obey the government's dictates until some magic point is reached when the mandate in question is "against God's law" and should be resisted. For a number of years now, evangelical Christians sat on their big fat butts and did nothing to resist the forward march of a profoundly evil global cabal that had infiltrated, and was in the process of subverting, our constitutional republic. Notably, it wasn't until McArthur's own church was in the cabal's crosshairs, and that his own ox was being gored, that he did a complete 180 on the question. In my own opinion, this guy should have learned some humility and for once just shut up, but, nope, he just kept preaching as though he had received a revelation from God Himself.
murphy_p_t
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1675
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2010 3:44 pm

Re: Would you wear a mask?

Post by murphy_p_t » Tue Nov 30, 2021 9:57 am

Here is a framework I think is reasonable.


Legitimate authority and obedience

Obedience is commanded within the limits of due observance. The duty develops according to the gradation of authorities which have power, not only over temporalities, but also over the conscience. St. Paul says, “let every soul be subject unto the higher powers, for there is no power but of God.” Therefore a Christian should obey power that is from God, but not otherwise.

Power may not stem from God for two reasons: it may be defective either in its origins or in its exercise.

Concerning the first, the defect may lie either in the personal unworthiness of the man or in some flaw in the manner of obtaining high position—violence, bribery, or some other illicit practice. The former is no bar to the possession of legitimate authority; and because the duty of obedience, it follows that subjects are bound to obey such a ruler, though as a man he is a good-for-nothing. The latter, however, is a bar, for a man who has snatched power by violence is no true superior or lord, and whoever has the ability may rightly reject him, unless perhaps the power has been subsequently legitimized by the consent of subjects or by higher authority.

The abuse of power may take two directions. Either the ruler imposes what is contrary to the purpose for which authority is instituted, for instance if he dictates vices contrary to the virtues authority is supposed to promote and sustain. In that event, not merely is a man not bound to obey, he is also bound not to obey, following the martyrs, who suffered death, rather than carry out the wicked decrees of tyrants. Or the ruler may make demands where his warrant does not run, for instance in exacting tributes to which he has no title, or something of the sort. In such cases a subject is not bound to obey, neither is he bound not to obey.

~St. Thomas Aquinas: Commentary, II Sentences, XLIV, ii. 2.
(Selected and translated by Thomas Gilby)
User avatar
Maddy
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1694
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2015 8:43 am

Re: Would you wear a mask?

Post by Maddy » Tue Nov 30, 2021 2:36 pm

Way too complicated for me. Kind of reminds me of a Jesuit who, in furtherance of his search for a way around the prohibition against masturbation, announced (quite seriously) to his class that abusing oneself "inadvertently" doesn't count.
pp4me
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1190
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2020 4:12 pm

Re: Would you wear a mask?

Post by pp4me » Tue Nov 30, 2021 3:17 pm

Maddy wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 2:36 pm
Way too complicated for me. Kind of reminds me of a Jesuit who, in furtherance of his search for a way around the prohibition against masturbation, announced (quite seriously) to his class that abusing oneself "inadvertently" doesn't count.
One of the early church fathers, someone named Origen, actually took what Jesus supposedly said about members of the body that cause you to offend literally and cut it off so he could be pure and holy. The interesting thing about that was that if you read his writings he was one of the most clear thinkers among the whole goddamn bunch of them, even though he was eventually declared a "heretic" (of course). So go figure. Maybe there is something to it although I'm not going to try it myself.

Jesus also said that if your eye offends you , you should pluck it out. In this age of internet pornography you have to wonder why you don't see a lot of Christians walking around with a patch over over at least one eye.

Don't know what this has to do with wearing masks except that somebody introduced Jesus and religous duty into the equation.
User avatar
vnatale
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 9422
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:56 pm
Location: Massachusetts
Contact:

Re: Would you wear a mask?

Post by vnatale » Tue Nov 30, 2021 3:37 pm

pp4me wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 3:17 pm

Maddy wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 2:36 pm

Way too complicated for me. Kind of reminds me of a Jesuit who, in furtherance of his search for a way around the prohibition against masturbation, announced (quite seriously) to his class that abusing oneself "inadvertently" doesn't count.


One of the early church fathers, someone named Origen, actually took what Jesus supposedly said about members of the body that cause you to offend literally and cut it off so he could be pure and holy. The interesting thing about that was that if you read his writings he was one of the most clear thinkers among the whole goddamn bunch of them, even though he was eventually declared a "heretic" (of course). So go figure. Maybe there is something to it although I'm not going to try it myself.

Jesus also said that if your eye offends you , you should pluck it out. In this age of internet pornography you have to wonder why you don't see a lot of Christians walking around with a patch over over at least one eye.

Don't know what this has to do with wearing masks except that somebody introduced Jesus and religous duty into the equation.


Looks like it was you!!!

Vinny


Re: Would you wear a mask?
Post by pp4me » Mon Nov 29, 2021 7:41 pm

Mountaineer wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 2:07 pm
It's the flagrant narcissism that pushes my buttons, not just on mask wearing, it's more on people choosing on their own to not follow
As a Christian, don't you have any problem passing judgment on other people as "flagrant narcissiists"? I think Jesus had a few things to say about that.

I know it says in the book of Romans (I think -chapter 13?) "The powers that be are ordained by God" and should therefore be obeyed as your Christian duty.

If you were a Lutheran living in Germany in the 1930's would you have followed that dictum? The early Christians didn't even obey it when it came to worshipping Caeser so who are you to decide and under what principles do your feel free to to judge other people?

I'm not comparing those issuing mandatory mask wearing and vaccines to Nazis, just pointing out that this isn't as clear cut as you think it is to justify your judgment against others.
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
murphy_p_t
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1675
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2010 3:44 pm

Re: Would you wear a mask?

Post by murphy_p_t » Tue Nov 30, 2021 5:17 pm

"Way too complicated for me. "

From the second paragraph from aquinas, there is no duty to obey an abuse of power. There can even be a duty to disobey.

Neither sleepy Joe, nor any of the 50 governors have
legitimate authority to impose their superstitions. In the same way that they cant impose a face diaper mandate, they can't mandate that everybody carry a rabbit's foot in their left front pocket.

Likewise, they cannot impose experimental gene therapy as a condition of participating in society.
User avatar
vnatale
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 9422
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:56 pm
Location: Massachusetts
Contact:

Re: Would you wear a mask?

Post by vnatale » Tue Nov 30, 2021 5:46 pm

murphy_p_t wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 5:17 pm

"Way too complicated for me. "

From the second paragraph from aquinas, there is no duty to obey an abuse of power. There can even be a duty to disobey.

Neither sleepy Joe, nor any of the 50 governors have
legitimate authority to impose their superstitions. In the same way that they cant impose a face diaper mandate, they can't mandate that everybody carry a rabbit's foot in their left front pocket.

Likewise, they cannot impose experimental gene therapy as a condition of participating in society.


Is "abuse of power" a fact? Or, an opinion or judgement?
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
User avatar
dualstow
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 14227
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:18 am
Location: synagogue of Satan
Contact:

Re: Would you wear a mask?

Post by dualstow » Wed Dec 01, 2021 3:39 am

I mean, once upon a time, hand washing before surgery was experimental. Doctors rebelled against it.
RIP Marcello Gandini
User avatar
Mountaineer
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 4959
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:54 am

Re: Would you wear a mask?

Post by Mountaineer » Wed Dec 01, 2021 5:55 am

murphy_p_t wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 5:17 pm
"Way too complicated for me. "

From the second paragraph from aquinas, there is no duty to obey an abuse of power. There can even be a duty to disobey.

Neither sleepy Joe, nor any of the 50 governors have
legitimate authority to impose their superstitions. In the same way that they cant impose a face diaper mandate, they can't mandate that everybody carry a rabbit's foot in their left front pocket.

Likewise, they cannot impose experimental gene therapy as a condition of participating in society.
A rabbit's foot goes in right front pocket. I thought everyone knew that. :o
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
User avatar
Maddy
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1694
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2015 8:43 am

Re: Would you wear a mask?

Post by Maddy » Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:54 am

murphy_p_t wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 5:17 pm
From the second paragraph from aquinas, there is no duty to obey an abuse of power. There can even be a duty to disobey.
As a constitutional republic, we don't have rulers. We have elected representatives whose constitutionally defined powers emanate entirely from an express, and limited, delegation of authority by the people. When the issue is (incorrectly) framed as whether governmental agents are abusing their "power," the assumption is that they are divinely endowed with a plenary power apart from that which is specifically delegated to them by the people. This is, in fact, the traditional biblical approach--and one that McArthur preached for decades--that governments are put in place by God--a postulate flatly antagonistic to the concept of representative government itself. That doctrine has kept evangelical Christians in a state of muddy-headed sloth, hogtied by the question whether the "power" being exercised by these rulers is sufficiently ungodly to cross some imaginary line at which point the people will suddenly be free to disobey.

The only meaningful question is whether our elected representatives they have stepped outside of their constitutional authority--which is something that has been happening on a glaringly obvious, impossible to ignore, scale, for at least the last ten years.
murphy_p_t
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1675
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2010 3:44 pm

Re: Would you wear a mask?

Post by murphy_p_t » Thu Dec 09, 2021 8:24 am

I saw the headline from this link

https://www.naturalnews.com/2021-12-08- ... globe.html


My question is, who is the more credible doomporn salesman?

-wee Tony fauci
-Mike Adams
User avatar
Mountaineer
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 4959
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:54 am

Re: Would you wear a mask?

Post by Mountaineer » Thu Dec 09, 2021 9:18 am

murphy_p_t wrote:
Thu Dec 09, 2021 8:24 am
I saw the headline from this link

https://www.naturalnews.com/2021-12-08- ... globe.html


My question is, who is the more credible doomporn salesman?

-wee Tony fauci
-Mike Adams
I don't know, but that article sure explains why so many operating room doctors and nurses botch things so much. I'm shaking in my boots about all those masked health care professionals overdosed on CO2. I'm going to put my faith in self-acomplished major surgery - all I need is a good mirror, a bright light, a sharp knife, a needle and thread. And, I won't even have to wear a mask in the comfort of my own home. I'll hope I'm alive to report how it turns out, if and when the time comes. In the mean time, I'm going to avoid internet and TV doomporn as much as possible. Cheers!
DNA has its own language (code), and language requires intelligence. There is no known mechanism by which matter can give birth to information, let alone language. It is unreasonable to believe the world could have happened by chance.
murphy_p_t
Executive Member
Executive Member
Posts: 1675
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2010 3:44 pm

Re: Would you wear a mask?

Post by murphy_p_t » Thu Dec 09, 2021 10:34 am

Okay thanks for that.

I haven't noticed it myself, but do most of the general public wear their face diaper mainly when they're in environments with 5 to 10 air changes per minute, or whatever the standard is for an operating room? (And they remove the face diaper when they exit the operating room)
Post Reply