Shortages caused by refusal to raise prices

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Shortages caused by refusal to raise prices

Post by Tortoise » Mon Mar 30, 2020 5:16 pm

If this topic has already been discussed elsewhere on this forum, sorry for the duplication.

Basically, I think stores keep selling out of certain items simply because they refuse to raise the prices on those items to properly balance supply and demand. The predictable result is empty shelves.

Is this because the store managers never learned the law of supply and demand in high school economics, or because they don't want the inevitable negative PR and accusations of "price gouging" that would result from pricing their items to balance supply and demand?
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Re: Shortages caused by refusal to raise prices

Post by Cortopassi » Mon Mar 30, 2020 5:22 pm

Tough one. Ever go to a shrink ray grocery website? Catalogs all items that have been reduced in size but same cost. “New look, same great taste” is a giveaway. One pound pasta, now 14 oz. one pint ice cream, 14 oz. one gallon ice cream not a gallon. And so on.

But off topic sort of. That is hidden inflation. What you are questioning I don’t think any retailer can do that and not get slammed in this case.
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Re: Shortages caused by refusal to raise prices

Post by Tortoise » Mon Mar 30, 2020 5:26 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 5:22 pm
What you are questioning I don’t think any retailer can do that and not get slammed in this case.
Meaning people prefer empty shelves with low prices to stocked shelves with higher prices. ::)
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Re: Shortages caused by refusal to raise prices

Post by Tyler » Mon Mar 30, 2020 6:20 pm

Tortoise wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 5:16 pm
Basically, I think stores keep selling out of certain items simply because they refuse to raise the prices on those items to properly balance supply and demand. The predictable result is empty shelves.
The positive way to look at it is that for many products supply is not fixed. They can make more to meet increased demand, but it takes time to ramp up manufacturing and fill the supply chain. That's why things like cleaning supplies were impossible to get for a few weeks but now are a lot more common. Demand didn't die down. Supply just finally caught up.

IMO, not jacking up the price in the meantime while millions are losing their jobs is a good thing. I'd much rather stores deter hoarders by limiting purchases rather than pricing essential items out of reach for most people.
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Re: Shortages caused by refusal to raise prices

Post by Tortoise » Mon Mar 30, 2020 6:57 pm

MangoMan wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 6:19 pm
I can't comment on the large chains like Kroger and Albertson's, but my son went to Trader Joe's yesterday and they were limiting people to 2 of the same items max. No stocking up allowed.
Same at my local stores. Yet they are still consistently selling out of TP and various other paper and cleaning products. The rationing may be helping somewhat, but it still isn't preventing them from consistently selling out.
Tyler wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 6:20 pm
The positive way to look at it is that for many products supply is not fixed. They can make more to meet increased demand, but it takes time to ramp up manufacturing and fill the supply chain. That's why things like cleaning supplies were impossible to get for a few weeks but now are a lot more common. Demand didn't die down. Supply just finally caught up.
What about the supply of TP and hand sanitizer? The supply of those items still hasn't caught up in most places. And my local grocery store is still consistently selling out of most beef and chicken as well.
Tyler wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 6:20 pm
IMO, not jacking up the price in the meantime while millions are losing their jobs is a good thing. I'd much rather stores deter hoarders by limiting purchases rather than pricing essential items out of reach for most people.
When someone has just lost their job, I tend to think that not allowing them to buy an item at any price (empty shelf) is crueler than letting them buy the item at a higher-than-usual price.
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Re: Shortages caused by refusal to raise prices

Post by dualstow » Mon Mar 30, 2020 7:02 pm

I overheard an older woman asking a grocery clerk about the availability of some items. The clerk said “We’re only ordering essential items right now.” Which makes sense. This morning, half of the items I wanted were just cleaned out: canned stews, canned tuna, pasta, lactose-free milk and a few other things. Bare shelves in all these areas.

Most of what I did find was the crappiest version or an unknown brand.
At least there were vegetables.

Some of that may have been my timing. My wife went to a different store today, an hour earlier, and found it fully stocked as if the hoarders don’t go there.

We’re both afraid to go to our beloved Trader Joe’s, because there are just too many shoppers there. Maybe in 2021.
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Re: Shortages caused by refusal to raise prices

Post by pmward » Mon Mar 30, 2020 7:06 pm

dualstow wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 7:02 pm
I overheard an older woman asking a grocery clerk about the availability of some items. The clerk said “We’re only ordering essential items right now.” Which makes sense. This morning, half of the items I wanted were just cleaned out: canned stews, canned tuna, pasta, lactose-free milk and a few other things. Bare shelves in all these areas.

Most of what I did find was the crappiest version or an unknown brand.
At least there were vegetables.

Some of that may have been my timing. My wife went to a different store today, an hour earlier, and found it fully stocked as if the hoarders don’t go there.

We’re both afraid to go to our beloved Trader Joe’s, because there are just too many shoppers there. Maybe in 2021.
What I find the most hilarious thing is that whenever you go to the Ramen isle without fail it's sold out of every flavor BUT shrimp ;D
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Re: Shortages caused by refusal to raise prices

Post by Tortoise » Mon Mar 30, 2020 7:08 pm

dualstow wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 7:02 pm
...hoarders...
Ah, there's that word again. You know what stops hoarders dead in their tracks? Higher prices.
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Re: Shortages caused by refusal to raise prices

Post by dualstow » Mon Mar 30, 2020 7:10 pm

Yeah, but it also stops a lot of people from eating.
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Re: Shortages caused by refusal to raise prices

Post by dualstow » Mon Mar 30, 2020 7:17 pm

pmward wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 7:06 pm
What I find the most hilarious thing is that whenever you go to the Ramen isle without fail it's sold out of every flavor BUT shrimp ;D
I know you meant to type ‘aisle’, but what a pleasant thought. It there were a Ramen Isle I’d vacation there. O0
Well my wife doesn’t know anything about investing, but she quietly bought rubbing alcohol, paper products and especially ramen before people started getting a little nutty.

She bought the ramen in bulk online. It is the cat’s favorite open-top cardboard box to date.
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Re: Shortages caused by refusal to raise prices

Post by Tortoise » Mon Mar 30, 2020 7:21 pm

dualstow wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 7:10 pm
Yeah, but it also stops a lot of people from eating.
So does an empty shelf.
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Re: Shortages caused by refusal to raise prices

Post by vnatale » Mon Mar 30, 2020 7:28 pm

dualstow wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 7:02 pm
I overheard an older woman asking a grocery clerk about the availability of some items. The clerk said “We’re only ordering essential items right now.” Which makes sense. This morning, half of the items I wanted were just cleaned out: canned stews, canned tuna, pasta, lactose-free milk and a few other things. Bare shelves in all these areas.

Most of what I did find was the crappiest version or an unknown brand.
At least there were vegetables.

Some of that may have been my timing. My wife went to a different store today, an hour earlier, and found it fully stocked as if the hoarders don’t go there.

We’re both afraid to go to our beloved Trader Joe’s, because there are just too many shoppers there. Maybe in 2021.
When I was last out, two weeks ago tomorrow, that was also the last day I bought food. I'd asked someone working there about the zero frozen vegetables available that day. He told me the whole store had been wiped out the prior Friday. Except for the fruit and vegetables section (where I do almost all my regular food shopping). The most health promoting food in the entire place!

Vinny
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Re: Shortages caused by refusal to raise prices

Post by pmward » Mon Mar 30, 2020 7:32 pm

dualstow wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 7:17 pm
pmward wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 7:06 pm
What I find the most hilarious thing is that whenever you go to the Ramen isle without fail it's sold out of every flavor BUT shrimp ;D
I know you meant to type ‘aisle’, but what a pleasant thought. It there were a Ramen Isle I’d vacation there. O0
Well my wife doesn’t know anything about investing, but she quietly bought rubbing alcohol, paper products and especially ramen before people started getting a little nutty.
Haha, yeah the Ramen Isles sound like my kind of place!
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Re: Shortages caused by refusal to raise prices

Post by Mountaineer » Mon Mar 30, 2020 7:35 pm

Anyone for the islets of Langerhans? ;)
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Re: Shortages caused by refusal to raise prices

Post by dualstow » Mon Mar 30, 2020 7:41 pm

Tortoise wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 7:21 pm
dualstow wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 7:10 pm
Yeah, but it also stops a lot of people from eating.
So does an empty shelf.
I’m in agreement with the other two people who have already +1’ed Trader Joes’ solution of limiting items to 2 per customer. If it’s Lamborghinis we’re talking about, raise prices. Groceries during a crisis caused by an exogenous event, nah.
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Re: Shortages caused by refusal to raise prices

Post by Tortoise » Mon Mar 30, 2020 7:49 pm

dualstow wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 7:41 pm
I’m in agreement with the other two people who have already +1’ed Trader Joes’ solution of limiting items to 2 per customer.
Is Trader Joe's managing to keep TP on their shelves right now? I'm genuinely curious to know.
dualstow wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 7:41 pm
If it’s Lamborghinis we’re talking about, raise prices. Groceries during a crisis caused by an exogenous event, nah.
Right, you've already established that you'd rather a person be given an empty shelf with a lower price than a stocked shelf with a higher price. That was my signal that the discussion couldn't last much longer since it wasn't based on logic.
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Re: Shortages caused by refusal to raise prices

Post by Tyler » Mon Mar 30, 2020 7:56 pm

I don't have a source, but I saw a reference this last week to an Italian store with a clever middle-ground idea. Roughly explaining it from memory:

1st bottle of hand sanitizer: $5
Every bottle after the 1st: $150

Anyone can buy as many as they want. ;)
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Re: Shortages caused by refusal to raise prices

Post by dualstow » Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:01 pm

Tortoise wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 7:49 pm
dualstow wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 7:41 pm
I’m in agreement with the other two people who have already +1’ed Trader Joes’ solution of limiting items to 2 per customer.
Is Trader Joe's managing to keep TP on their shelves right now? I'm genuinely curious to know.

As I stated very clearly, we haven’t been going there.
dualstow wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 7:41 pm
If it’s Lamborghinis we’re talking about, raise prices. Groceries during a crisis caused by an exogenous event, nah.
Right, you've already established that you'd rather a person be given an empty shelf with a lower price than a stocked shelf with a higher price. That was my signal that the discussion couldn't last much longer since it wasn't based on logic.
Don’t be a dick. It’s unbecoming.
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Re: Shortages caused by refusal to raise prices

Post by Tortoise » Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:06 pm

Regarding the idea of rationing like Trader Joe's and also Tyler's example above: It sounds great, and it probably does help, but in practice it's quite easy to game the system. A family of five (or six, or seven...) can enter the store separately and each buy the max amount of the limited item to get much more than their family is supposed to.

In fact, I suspect a lot of that is already happening, which is why things like TP and hand sanitizer are still hard to find even at the self-rationing stores.
dualstow wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:01 pm
Don’t be a dick. It’s unbecoming.
I'll make you a deal: I'll stop being a dick if you stop being dismissive and flippant by introducing a Lamborghini analogy in a thread about grocery prices.
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Re: Shortages caused by refusal to raise prices

Post by dualstow » Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:15 pm

(Sorry, Saul’s on, so I’ve only been peeking during the commercials)

I’m sure that’s going on and I thought of it, too, but I doubt that makes a dent. The policy still stops a single person from going in and clearing out the entire supply of something, like that guy and his brother did across several states before reselling it at exorbitant markup and ultimately, after being shamed, donating some of it.

I'll make you a deal: I'll stop being a dick if you stop being dismissive and flippant by introducing a Lamborghini analogy in a thread about grocery prices.
I’m in agreement with the other two people who have already +1’ed Trader Joes’ solution of limiting items to 2 per customer. If it’s Lamborghinis items that people don’t need for survival that we’re talking about, raise prices. Groceries during a crisis caused by an exogenous event, nah.
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Re: Shortages caused by refusal to raise prices

Post by Smith1776 » Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:32 pm

dualstow wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:15 pm
(Sorry, Saul’s on, so I’ve only been peeking during the commercials)
On my resume I'm putting knowledge of the law down.

Better Call Saul seasons 1 to 5. That's got to be at least half a law degree there.
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Re: Shortages caused by refusal to raise prices

Post by Tortoise » Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:49 pm

dualstow wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:15 pm
I’m in agreement with the other two people who have already +1’ed Trader Joes’ solution of limiting items to 2 per customer. If it’s Lamborghinis items that people don’t need for survival that we’re talking about, raise prices. Groceries during a crisis caused by an exogenous event, nah.
Thanks, that's a step in the right direction. :)

Now, would you be so kind as to answer the following question seriously, without dismissiveness or humorous deflection?

During a crisis caused by an exogenous event, which is preferable regarding an item people need for survival: (a) An empty shelf with a low price, or (b) a stocked shelf with a higher-than-normal price?
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Re: Shortages caused by refusal to raise prices

Post by vnatale » Mon Mar 30, 2020 9:11 pm

Tyler wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 7:56 pm
I don't have a source, but I saw a reference this last week to an Italian store with a clever middle-ground idea. Roughly explaining it from memory:

1st bottle of hand sanitizer: $5
Every bottle after the 1st: $150

Anyone can buy as many as they want. ;)


That actually seems like wisdom of Solomonic proportions!

Vinny
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Re: Shortages caused by refusal to raise prices

Post by vnatale » Mon Mar 30, 2020 9:13 pm

Tortoise wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:06 pm
Regarding the idea of rationing like Trader Joe's and also Tyler's example above: It sounds great, and it probably does help, but in practice it's quite easy to game the system. A family of five (or six, or seven...) can enter the store separately and each buy the max amount of the limited item to get much more than their family is supposed to.

In fact, I suspect a lot of that is already happening, which is why things like TP and hand sanitizer are still hard to find even at the self-rationing stores.
What percentage of families are actually of that size? And, of that percentage, how many would be sufficiently organized to pull it off? Are they all paying cash? Shuffling the family credit card to young children to use?

Vinny
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Re: Shortages caused by refusal to raise prices

Post by vnatale » Mon Mar 30, 2020 9:15 pm

Tortoise wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:49 pm
dualstow wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:15 pm
I’m in agreement with the other two people who have already +1’ed Trader Joes’ solution of limiting items to 2 per customer. If it’s Lamborghinis items that people don’t need for survival that we’re talking about, raise prices. Groceries during a crisis caused by an exogenous event, nah.
Thanks, that's a step in the right direction. :)

Now, would you be so kind as to answer the following question seriously, without dismissiveness or humorous deflection?

During a crisis caused by an exogenous event, which is preferable regarding an item people need for survival: (a) An empty shelf with a low price, or (b) a stocked shelf with a higher-than-normal price?
Is the premise behind a) that 1) people are hoarding or stocking up 2) resellers are buying in anticipation of reselling at a higher price somewhere down the line and b) takes care of each?

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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