Shortages caused by refusal to raise prices

[vnatale]

I tried to order shelf-stable milk online last week, something like Parmalat. It’s like $26/gallon and doesn’t ship out until the end of April. I didn’t respond by buying extra milk, though.

IDK about availability during this insanity, but Carnation makes non-fat dry milk powder. It keeps near-forever, and you can mix up small batches as needed if you don't go thru a lot of milk. If only it actually tasted like milk.

It's out of stock too. Wife has been trying to buy it to use in baking bread.

If the recipe calls for milk and you don't have any, can't you just sub in water? It might not taste as good, but should still work.

They have plenty of milk at the groceries here. Is that not the case where you live, or do you just not want to go out?

I cannot hold myself back any longer....cow milk is for baby cows! Not an essential food product for humans and, in many cases, unhealthy and problematic for many humans.

Vinny

[Xan]

I tried to order shelf-stable milk online last week, something like Parmalat. It’s like $26/gallon and doesn’t ship out until the end of April. I didn’t respond by buying extra milk, though.

IDK about availability during this insanity, but Carnation makes non-fat dry milk powder. It keeps near-forever, and you can mix up small batches as needed if you don't go thru a lot of milk. If only it actually tasted like milk.

It's out of stock too. Wife has been trying to buy it to use in baking bread.

If the recipe calls for milk and you don't have any, can't you just sub in water? It might not taste as good, but should still work.

They have plenty of milk at the groceries here. Is that not the case where you live, or do you just not want to go out?

I cannot hold myself back any longer....cow milk is for baby cows! Not an essential food product for humans and, in many cases, unhealthy and problematic for many humans.

Vinny

Last time I went to bake a cake, the store was fresh out of human breast milk.

[dualstow]

I cannot hold myself back any longer....cow milk is for baby cows! Not an essential food product for humans and, in many cases, unhealthy and problematic for many humans.

I promise not to kidnap you and make you get a flu shot, and you will let me drink milk.
There are more opinions about diet than there are world religions.
Go after my coffee and you're going to lose a finger.

[Kriegsspiel]

lt.png (343.87 KiB) Viewed 4618 times

[dualstow]

^Wow, I never would have guessed Italy would be so..anti-latte.

[vnatale]

I cannot hold myself back any longer....cow milk is for baby cows! Not an essential food product for humans and, in many cases, unhealthy and problematic for many humans.

Vinny

What do you pour over cereal?

I last ate cereal...I'm forgetting what decade.

But for decades my breakfast had been oatmeal with the golden three frozen vegetables of broccoli, carrots, and cauliflower. Until I stopped using milk and switched to using water, I used to say I covered all the "basic fours" at breakfast and, therefore, the rest of the day I could eat anything I wanted (within my otherwise self-imposed dietary restrictions).

Vinny

[vnatale]

I cannot hold myself back any longer....cow milk is for baby cows! Not an essential food product for humans and, in many cases, unhealthy and problematic for many humans.

I promise not to kidnap you and make you get a flu shot, and you will let me drink milk.
There are more opinions about diet than there are world religions.
Go after my coffee and you're going to lose a finger.

If you prod me at the right time next year I will get that flu shot, the switch will thereby then get turned on, and I'll probably get one every year for the rest of my life.

It's a combination of my ever present inertia and my binary life approach to many things. Either on or off. All the way or none.

Vinny

[vnatale]

lt.png

Thanks!

Never seen something like this!

But since I'm 100% genetically Southern Italian that puts me in the 70% to 100% category. As I got older I did not think I processed milk and milk products (cheese) that well.

Vinny

[shekels]

I see Eeyore in that Picture.

[Kriegsspiel]

I see Eeyore in that Picture.

Not sure what you're talking about, but I found a T-Rex:

ltrex.png (151.14 KiB) Viewed 4308 times

[I Shrugged]

Chief, sorry I was only referring to the powdered milk. It’s been out of stock.

[dualstow]

Hoarding:

(1) Face masks. The translation may be right but I'm running it by the native Mandarin speaker down the hall just in case, as my listening comprehension is poor.

https://twitter.com/Imamofpeace/status/ ... 26689?s=20

(2) Scroll down a few tweets from the above to the baby food.

One per customer would be good. Grr.

[Tortoise]

Hoarding:
[...]
(2) Scroll down a few tweets from the above to the baby food.

One per customer would be good. Grr.

I hope diapers and baby food supply returns to normal before my baby girl is born in July...

[CT-Scott]

I cannot hold myself back any longer....cow milk is for baby cows! Not an essential food product for humans and, in many cases, unhealthy and problematic for many humans.

Vinny

Last time I went to bake a cake, the store was fresh out of human breast milk.

I last ate cereal...I'm forgetting what decade.

But for decades my breakfast had been oatmeal with the golden three frozen vegetables of broccoli, carrots, and cauliflower. Until I stopped using milk and switched to using water, I used to say I covered all the "basic fours" at breakfast and, therefore, the rest of the day I could eat anything I wanted (within my otherwise self-imposed dietary restrictions).

This thread is so awesome. I'm not sure what's worse...cereal with human breast milk, or cereal with water, broccoli, carrots, and cauliflower.

[CT-Scott]

I forgot this part. (Sorry for all the posts & words). Though I don’t know the answer either, it reminded me of the reason my wife gave me for stocking up on certain things in the first place. She never expected a shortage of any kind. She was just determined to return to the store as infrequently as possible, well before the announcement of an official lockdown.

I was surprised that there were limiting eggs and meat among other items at the stores here.
I asked the checkout person if the chickens had stopped laying, or came home to roost.
It took me a while to figure out the cause may be that people have stopped eating out.
So the eggs and meat at the grocer were not necessarily be hoarded,
there were just more people at home fixing there own meals.

Another contributing factor to the empty shelves, according to something I read lately, is that most grocery stores and their supply chains are based on the (usually correct) assumption that most grocery customers make frequent trips to the store and buy relatively small amounts of food on each trip. During this pandemic, that assumption has broken down spectacularly as people buy more food in order to go to the store less often to reduce their exposure to potential coronavirus infection.

All of these are excellent points, and excellent/insightful observations about human behavior. The state continues to do its best to influence behavior via propaganda, but non-brainwashed humans will act rationally to do what is best for them and their families.

[Kriegsspiel]

cereal oats with water, broccoli, carrots, and cauliflower.

If there was any doubt Vinny has that brain-altering cat disease...

[vnatale]

I cannot hold myself back any longer....cow milk is for baby cows! Not an essential food product for humans and, in many cases, unhealthy and problematic for many humans.

Vinny

Last time I went to bake a cake, the store was fresh out of human breast milk.

I last ate cereal...I'm forgetting what decade.

But for decades my breakfast had been oatmeal with the golden three frozen vegetables of broccoli, carrots, and cauliflower. Until I stopped using milk and switched to using water, I used to say I covered all the "basic fours" at breakfast and, therefore, the rest of the day I could eat anything I wanted (within my otherwise self-imposed dietary restrictions).

This thread is so awesome. I'm not sure what's worse...cereal with human breast milk, or cereal with water, broccoli, carrots, and cauliflower.

I know the latter sounds strange but you have not tried it. If you mix the vegetables with rolled oats (not the instant kind) you can end up with something of the glutinous consistency of turkey stuffing. Something else glutinous with vegetables.

From 1985 until about 2015 it was an every single day breakfast for me. Even when I visited friends and stayed at their house, I'd bring my frozen vegetables and rolled oats and whatever I'd use to cook in it. Their kids, of course, though it was all hilarious.

But you should try it some day. You might be surprised. This from someone who as a kid was widely known as the fussiest and most picky kid eater around. Liked few things.

Vinny

[dualstow]

I just want to add that the translation in that first twitter clip is wrong. I think “Imam of Peace” may be stirring up trouble unnecessarily.

The second video has no words and of course speaks for itself. Might’ve been filmed during the baby formula debacle, and the hoarders were probably going to sell all that untainted formula from Australia to China for a profit. The silver lining is that Tortoise and Pug will have formula for their soon-borns.

[vnatale]

cereal oats with water, broccoli, carrots, and cauliflower.

If there was any doubt Vinny has that brain-altering cat disease...

It stemmed from when I had two episodes in 1985 of intense dizziness after eating.

I think I started with a doctor and the doctor referred me a nutritionist.

I explained what I'd prior eaten to the two episodes (one time was pancakes with, of course, tons of (sugar) syrup) she stated that I'd had hypoglycemic attacks.

I was eating simple carbohydrates. They sent my blood sugar way high but then it came rapidly down so that I was experiencing low blood sugar. Hence the dizzy spells.

She advised that I eat, instead, complex carbohydrates, explaining that when those are eaten, there is a much longer digestive period with glucose continually being released at that time as opposed to the simple carbohydrates unleashing all that glucose at once.

She must have used oatmeal as an example of what to eat. Starting eating it. One thing led to another wherein I kept adding more complex carbohydrates to that breakfast.

I'm saying this all from a 35 years ago memory. Some of it may not be accurate plus I've several times stated here that I'm a number and $$$$ person and a 100% non-medical person.

But after I followed her recommendations I never again had one of those dizzy spells. Correspondingly, a few weeks after the visit with her I gave up buying food to bring into my house with any ingredients that said--sugar, high fructose corn syrup, dextrose, maltose, or any other -trose. And, stopped eating while out any food that was overtly sugar like cake or ice cream or similar type sugar food.

Vinny

[Tortoise]

I'd be more worried about the hospitals returning to normal. My daughter is due in August, and this really concerns me.

A belated congrats, Pug! You may have mentioned your soon-born in another thread, but I probably missed it.

The hospital situation worries me too, I assure you.

[Kriegsspiel]

What about the poor people? Surely, raising the price of TP to $10 a roll benefits the wealthy and alienates the poor who can’t afford it? Well, those poor people are working two to three minimum wage jobs and are too busy to drive around town all day looking for Whatever TP is left unlike the suburban housewife or middle class employee who can leave work early and take a sick day To drive around town, so there’s no TP left for poor people even if you didn’t raise prices because the middle and upper class have more time and cash to buy it all up.

How does this square with

Multiple jobholders comprise an established portion of the labor force (4.9 percent, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics [BLS]) and have had a steady presence—between 4.5 percent and 6.2 percent since 1970. link

and

By and large, the biggest leisure gains have gone precisely to those with the most stagnant incomes—that is, the least skilled and the least educated. And conversely, the smallest leisure gains have been concentrated among the most educated, the same group that’s had the biggest gains in income. link

I'm sure you are right that some poor people do work a lot (I'd wager it's mostly poor families), but the statistics I've seen don't indicate that it's the majority. Come at me bro etc etc.

Anyone who disagrees with this is an idiot.

So, what is your username on the MMM forums?

[dualstow]

I haven’t read all 7 pages but I will make a quick comment
...
Anyone who disagrees with this is an idiot.

Well, you’ll be happy to know that when it comes to TP, no one disagrees with you in those 7 pages about raising prices on that stuff. Interesting note about the plywood, anyway.

[vnatale]

I haven’t read all 7 pages but I will make a quick comment that yes, anti price gouging laws lead to shortages because people hoard during a panic when their demand rises but supply remains the same. Raising prices forces consumers to really think about how much TP they need of its $10 a roll, and they only buy exactly what they need.

What about the poor people? Surely, raising the price of TP to $10 a roll benefits the wealthy and alienates the poor who can’t afford it? Well, those poor people are working two to three minimum wage jobs and are too busy to drive around town all day looking for Whatever TP is left unlike the suburban housewife or middle class employee who can leave work early and take a sick day To drive around town, so there’s no TP left for poor people even if you didn’t raise prices because the middle and upper class have more time and cash to buy it all up.

Anyone who disagrees with this is an idiot. Sorry to be so blunt but I’ve had this conversation with many people over the years and I am the evil MBA who wants rich fat cat CEOs of businesses to make a profit during times of crisis. When I bring up Venezuela demanding price ceilings to avoid the realty of hyperinflation from mass printing Bolivares lead to country-wide shortages of everything, well... that’s not their Socialism. That’s the bad kind of socialism. Their socialism, also with price ceilings would be better.

I used to see this in hurricane country where I grew up as a child where all of the plywood and gasoline would run out because hardware stores and gas stations weren’t allowed to raise prices. Rather than measure your actual house for how much plywood you need, people just buy all of it since it’s so cheap and only the first 10% of people showing up to the hardware store get to buy any.

The best part is the media and government blaming the hoarders. Well the supply chain is fine and anti-price gouging policy works if not for those evil hoarders acting with economic rationality in times of Crisis.

Hey politicians, maybe don’t design a system that only works if people act irrationally — In this case, it would be irrational not to buy extra TP if prices don’t rise in response to demand. I guess socialism would work too if everyone maxed out their efforts in spite of shared returns. All of these government systems would work great if all of the citizens acted appropriately and if the political leaders did not become corrupt.

I've many times heard that description from politicians, mostly if not exclusively from Democratic ones.

And, I always wonder two things. Why are they so poor if they are working so many jobs? What percentage of the working population do work two jobs? What percentage three?

Finally, do the poor have less time than the rich? One of the varied reasons why the poor are the poor and the rich are the rich are the rich is because the poor spend LESS time working while the rich spend MORE time working.

At different times in my life I've been (relatively speaking) on each sides somewhat). I was poor when I spent two weeks on welfare. Now I am by no means rich but I live comfortably (for my needs). But I've put in a ton of work hours to be able to be comfortable now. That along with certain financial choices that I made.

Vinny

[vnatale]

I've many times heard that description from politicians, mostly if not exclusively from Democratic ones.

And, I always wonder two things. Why are they so poor if they are working so many jobs? What percentage of the working population do work two jobs? What percentage three?

Finally, do the poor have less time than the rich? One of the varied reasons why the poor are the poor and the rich are the rich are the rich is because the poor spend LESS time working while the rich spend MORE time working.

At different times in my life I've been (relatively speaking) on each sides somewhat). I was poor when I spent two weeks on welfare. Now I am by no means rich but I live comfortably (for my needs). But I've put in a ton of work hours to be able to be comfortable now. That along with certain financial choices that I made.

Vinny

Yes, I was speaking from the perspective of extreme democrats.

Suppose they are correct and poor people are busy working 3 jobs. Well, they don’t have time to drive around and look for TP at regular prices, so they don’t get any.

Or, they are working part-time or maybe not at all, In which case they are lazy and deserve to be poor and I don’t want to plan a society in protecting people who are lazy.

Either way, I don’t see how forcing prices low to protect poor people works. Either they deserve to be poor and I don’t want to help them or they are so busy working 3 jobs they have no time to search.

Thanks! NOW I better understand.

Vinny

[CT-Scott]

I'm in favor of price gouging, but here's a new take on the TP shortage that I just read:

What Everyone’s Getting Wrong About the Toilet Paper Shortage
https://marker.medium.com/what-everyone ... 12e1358fe0

Notable quote:

In short, the toilet paper industry is split into two, largely separate markets: commercial and consumer. The pandemic has shifted the lion’s share of demand to the latter. People actually do need to buy significantly more toilet paper during the pandemic — not because they’re making more trips to the bathroom, but because they’re making more of them at home. With some 75% of the U.S. population under stay-at-home orders, Americans are no longer using the restrooms at their workplace, in schools, at restaurants, at hotels, or in airports.

Also, in regards to the cow milk discussion and the maps showing lactose intolerance and comments about Italy being high on that list...In addition to the older demographic, and I suspect a higher percentage of smokers in Italy (based solely on what I was seeing when we visited a few towns in Italy a year or so back), cow milk gives you vitamin D (though not naturally high, it's usually fortified with vitamin D - not sure if that's true in other countries).

Ask the Expert: The role of diet and nutritional supplements during COVID-19
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritions ... -covid-19/

Notable quote:

Evidence from several clinical trials and pooled studies show that vitamin D supplementation lowers the odds of developing acute respiratory tract infections (most of which are assumed to be due to viruses) by 12% to 75%. [9-12] These studies included both the seasonal and pandemic flu caused by H1N1 virus in 2009. The beneficial effect of supplementation was seen in patients of across all ages, and individuals with pre-existing chronic illnesses. [13] Among those who were infected, flu symptoms were fewer and recovery was earlier if they had received doses of vitamin D greater than 1,000 IU. [14] The benefits were relatively greater in individuals with vitamin D deficiency than in those who had adequate levels of vitamin D.