TDS discussion thread

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Tyler
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Re: TDS discussion thread

Post by Tyler » Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:28 pm

Tortoise wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:01 pm
Almost every politician is a narcissist. Trump just doesn't bother trying to hide his narcissism.
True. But other recent presidents didn't hide it either. People just chose to ignore it depending on their political preferences.

Obama references himself 392 times in one speech
Mechanical engineer, history buff, treasure manager... totally not Ben Gates
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Re: TDS discussion thread

Post by Tortoise » Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:38 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:21 pm
[Trump] lacks that filter. Sometimes it works to his favor.
Yes, and sometimes it works in the American people's favor as well. For example, when Trump puts a nasty reporter or media personality in his or her place, I think it gives a voice to his constituents that they've never really had before. And that new voice makes them feel a bit more empowered.

In other words, I think that lack of a filter cuts both ways. It lets in a lot of embarrassing nonsense, but it also brings a lot of important ideas into the public arena (like the idea that mainstream media may actually be an enemy of the people) that most "filtered" personalities wouldn't dare to broach.
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Re: TDS discussion thread

Post by Cortopassi » Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:42 pm

Tyler wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:28 pm
Tortoise wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:01 pm
Almost every politician is a narcissist. Trump just doesn't bother trying to hide his narcissism.
True. But other recent presidents didn't hide it either. People just chose to ignore it depending on their political preferences.

Obama references himself 392 times in one speech
I listened to the montage of one of those. https://grabien.com/story.php?id=38185&order=date. It didn't come across as narcissist to me. The first one in this clip was "I've been to Roseburg, Oregon. I want to thank all the first responders..."

???
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Re: TDS discussion thread

Post by flyingpylon » Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:07 pm

TDS is almost entirely based on emotion.

It would be nice to find a President with a perfect blend of style and substance that would accomplish great things while maximizing warm fuzzies and making almost everyone happy.

But sometimes you have to deal with otherwise unsavory characters to get things done.
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Re: TDS discussion thread

Post by technovelist » Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:26 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 12:26 pm
If I had to pick one thing out of the past 3 years, a few weeks ago he said "I don't take responsibility at all."
Here's the whole question and answer. Needless to say, the left has taken that statement out of context, as they always do:

"Q Thank you so much, Mr. President. Dr. Fauci said earlier this week that the lag in testing was, in fact, “a failing.” Do you take responsibility for that?

And when can you guarantee that every single American who needs a test will be able to have a test? What’s the date of that?

THE PRESIDENT: Yeah, no, I don’t take responsibility at all, because we were given a — a set of circumstances and we were given rules, regulations, and specifications from a different time. It wasn’t meant for this kind of an event with the kind of numbers that we’re talking about. And what we’ve done is redesigned it very quickly with the help of the people behind me. And we’re now in very, very strong shape.

I think we’ll be announcing, as I said, Sunday night, and this will start very quickly. And we — we’ll have — we’ll have the ability to do in the millions over a very, very quick period of time. So, no.

And what we have done — and we are going to be leaving a very indelible print for the future, in case something like this happens again. But it was a — and that’s not the fault of anybody. And, frankly, the old system worked very well for smaller numbers — much smaller numbers — but not for these kind of numbers."

from https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-st ... ference-3/
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Re: TDS discussion thread

Post by Cortopassi » Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:11 pm

technovelist wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:26 pm
Cortopassi wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 12:26 pm
If I had to pick one thing out of the past 3 years, a few weeks ago he said "I don't take responsibility at all."
because we were given a — a set of circumstances and we were given rules, regulations, and specifications from a different time. It wasn’t meant for this kind of an event with the kind of numbers that we’re talking about.
Ok...maybe...but, they did a pandemic simulation in 2019 that sounds like it very closely mimicked what we are seeing now.

From NYT (the bastion of fake news to some, I know)
--------------------
The White House defended its record, saying it responded to the 2019 exercise with an executive order to improve the availability and quality of flu vaccines, and that it moved early this year to increase funding for the Department of Health and Human Services’ program that focuses on global pandemic threats.

“Any suggestion that President Trump did not take the threat of COVID-19 seriously is false,” said Judd Deere, a White House spokesman.

But officials have declined to say why the administration was so slow to roll out broad testing or to move faster, as the simulations all indicated it should, to urge social distancing and school closings.

Asked at his news briefing on Thursday about the government’s preparedness, Mr. Trump responded: “Nobody knew there would be a pandemic or epidemic of this proportion. Nobody has ever seen anything like this before.”
---------------------
Sounds like deflecting and not taking responsibility.

To me it sounds like someone up there saying nobody knew that anyone would ever actually fire those nuclear missiles. No one has ever seen anything like that before. But I'd suspect a major function of government is to plan for these sorts of things?
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Re: TDS discussion thread

Post by technovelist » Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:26 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:11 pm
technovelist wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:26 pm
Cortopassi wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 12:26 pm
If I had to pick one thing out of the past 3 years, a few weeks ago he said "I don't take responsibility at all."
because we were given a — a set of circumstances and we were given rules, regulations, and specifications from a different time. It wasn’t meant for this kind of an event with the kind of numbers that we’re talking about.
Ok...maybe...but, they did a pandemic simulation in 2019 that sounds like it very closely mimicked what we are seeing now.

From NYT (the bastion of fake news to some, I know)
--------------------
The White House defended its record, saying it responded to the 2019 exercise with an executive order to improve the availability and quality of flu vaccines, and that it moved early this year to increase funding for the Department of Health and Human Services’ program that focuses on global pandemic threats.

“Any suggestion that President Trump did not take the threat of COVID-19 seriously is false,” said Judd Deere, a White House spokesman.

But officials have declined to say why the administration was so slow to roll out broad testing or to move faster, as the simulations all indicated it should, to urge social distancing and school closings.

Asked at his news briefing on Thursday about the government’s preparedness, Mr. Trump responded: “Nobody knew there would be a pandemic or epidemic of this proportion. Nobody has ever seen anything like this before.”
---------------------
Sounds like deflecting and not taking responsibility.

To me it sounds like someone up there saying nobody knew that anyone would ever actually fire those nuclear missiles. No one has ever seen anything like that before. But I'd suspect a major function of government is to plan for these sorts of things?
He curtailed travel from China on January 31st and was rewarded by being called a xenophobe. I can only imagine what would have happened if he had acted more swiftly to urge social distancing and the like: "Fear monger! Hysterical over-reaction!" and the like.

I'd also remind you that in our federal system, it is primarily up to the states to prepare for their own health emergencies. And I guess I shouldn't be surprised that the same people who called him a dictator, Hitler, and many other similar names are now upset that he isn't ordering people around strongly enough for them.
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Re: TDS discussion thread

Post by Cortopassi » Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:46 pm

I see your side, truly I do.

I only imagine, rightly or wrongly, simply through the use of the English language and a little tact, that someone like Bill Clinton, even if he made ALL the same decisions as Trump, would currently have a 95% approval rating on his handling of this.

That (you can agree with this, or probably not) is squarely Trump's fault. If he turned presidential, there would be a lot fewer things the left could fault him on, even if he did ALL the same exact policy moves over the past three years.

My opinion. Could be totally wrong here.
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Re: TDS discussion thread

Post by Kriegsspiel » Mon Apr 06, 2020 4:16 pm

Ohio state legislature representative "says she'll press crimes against humanity charge against Trump over hydroxychloroquine promotion" in The Hague. link

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

via Tim Pool, who really nails it, as usual.
All of humanity’s problems with coronavirus stem from a man’s inability to sit quietly in a room alone.
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Re: TDS discussion thread

Post by technovelist » Mon Apr 06, 2020 4:34 pm

Cortopassi wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:46 pm
I see your side, truly I do.

I only imagine, rightly or wrongly, simply through the use of the English language and a little tact, that someone like Bill Clinton, even if he made ALL the same decisions as Trump, would currently have a 95% approval rating on his handling of this.

That (you can agree with this, or probably not) is squarely Trump's fault. If he turned presidential, there would be a lot fewer things the left could fault him on, even if he did ALL the same exact policy moves over the past three years.

My opinion. Could be totally wrong here.
I disagree. Whatever Trump does or says, the left will attack him.

For an example related to tone, his 2020 State of the Union address was quite Presidential from all of the examples I've seen. He gave a lot of kudos to everyday Americans, including a lot of minorities. The left's reaction is probably best exemplified by Nancy Pelosi's stunt of tearing up the speech as he was finishing up, and the media's reaction that she was so brave and wonderful for doing that.

But besides tone, they even make up lies to attack him with, possibly the most famous of which is the "very fine people" hoax.

And it's not just him; it's anyone who supports him. Possibly the most horrid example of that is the media's totally disgusting coverage of high school student Nick Sandmann. He did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING wrong, yet the media presented a completely out-of-context video clip, that they KNEW was deceptively edited, to make it look like he was a racist, solely because he was wearing a MAGA hat.

I'm sorry, but I don't recall anything like the current media bias and mistreatment of innocent people in the Obama or Bush years. Or at any time, actually. They don't have to like Trump or his supporters, but they're supposed to report facts, not make up lies to brainwash people about how awful Trump and Trump supporters are.
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Re: TDS discussion thread

Post by vnatale » Mon Apr 06, 2020 5:59 pm

shekels wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:29 am
For many TDS started with not being "Presidential"
So what is "Presidential"?

Who in the U.S.would fit that criteria?

If being "Presidential" is important to you, are the Views Trump has all that important to you or just a sideshow?
I agree, he can be annoying to People but he is also a hero to people, for saying what they are thinking/believe.

Do People just have hurt feelings by what he says.
or do people hate him for what Trump does.

He is Not Obama. The people that liked Obama are now on the opposite side of the coin were and Vice Versa.

Personally, I Rate Pres Trump on what he accomplishes or doesn't accomplish.
...which does not mean what "they are thinking/believe" is correct.

Vinny
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Re: TDS discussion thread

Post by vnatale » Mon Apr 06, 2020 6:02 pm

Mountaineer wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:14 am
vnatale wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 9:52 am
.

Why? Because proponents of leftist ideology have come to the (pretty reasonable) conclusion that the beginning of the Trump era means the end of the socialist era. They realized that it was time to go all in. Otherwise, the idea of turning 50 American states into 50 Soviet socialist republics would fail."

Vinny
I thought it was 57. 🙃
For certain. Rather than acknowledge Trump's daily lies by the minute pull out the old chestnuts of the two misstatements Obama made in eight years.

Of course I'm not that dumb to see the total equivalencies between them.

Vinny
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