I Need Your Help: Should I Take A Layoff?

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Smith1776
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I Need Your Help: Should I Take A Layoff?

Post by Smith1776 » Sat Apr 11, 2020 1:48 pm

Hey guys, I need your input on a dilemma.

Our company has decided to continue paying us, even though we're not working, till June 1st. However, we were recently given the option to take a voluntary layoff. Why? Because Canadians that are laid off due to COVID-19 can collect a $2,000 a month emergency benefit from the federal government.

Ok, salient facts:

- My current pay from my employer is about $1,000 a month
- The emergency benefit I could receive is $2,000 a month
- The benefit only lasts 4 months
- The emergency benefit has a long list of eligibility requirements. I have studied it, and I appear to be eligible.. but you never know. I'm afraid of clawback risk. (https://www.canada.ca/en/services/benef ... ation.html)
- People who choose the voluntary layoff will be first to get laid off for real if the company needs to start reducing staffing when stores reopen. There is no guarantee I will get my job back.

So, even though the emergency benefit is more than my actual wage, the benefit is only temporary, and there's no guarantee i'll be rehired when all is said and done.

I'd like your thoughts if you have any. Am I missing something? Another angle I haven't considered? I'd appreciate others' perspective.
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Re: I Need Your Help: Should I Take A Layoff?

Post by Tortoise » Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:09 pm

Health care?
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Re: I Need Your Help: Should I Take A Layoff?

Post by Smith1776 » Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:12 pm

Tortoise wrote: ↑
Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:09 pm
Health care?
That is a bloody good point. I hadn't even considered that.

Since I am part-time I don't actually get any coverage from the company. Still, thanks for pointing that out.
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Re: I Need Your Help: Should I Take A Layoff?

Post by Smith1776 » Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:59 pm

MangoMan wrote: ↑
Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:51 pm
Isn't healthcare 'free' in Canuckville?
Only critical healthcare is "free." Stuff like dental is either paid out of pocket or covered by a plan, typically provided by your employer.
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Re: I Need Your Help: Should I Take A Layoff?

Post by Mountaineer » Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:17 pm

Some things to consider. Do you enjoy your job? Do you enjoy the unknown? How is your confidence in always figuring out something productive to do with your time, and that will pay for your needs, and perhaps several of your wants? How long will your emergency funds sustain you if the SHTF?

Good luck with your decision.
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Re: I Need Your Help: Should I Take A Layoff?

Post by D1984 » Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:25 pm

MangoMan wrote: ↑
Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:02 pm
Smith1776 wrote: ↑
Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:59 pm
MangoMan wrote: ↑
Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:51 pm
Isn't healthcare 'free' in Canuckville?
Only critical healthcare is "free." Stuff like dental is either paid out of pocket or covered by a plan, typically provided by your employer.
Critical? So you need to rely on the government to take care of you when you are most vulnerable? Sounds like a great idea. :P
By "critical" I believe he meant major medical care in general (doctor's office visits, hospital care, ER, ICU, surgery, imaging, chemotherapy administered while in the hospital, etc) and not just what we would think of as "critical" or "emergency" care...more like most anything covered by a "major medical only" policy here in the US would be covered by provincial Medicare in BC.

IIRC (I used to work for a Canadian company and my supervisor and his supervisor both came from Ontario to the States for a time to work for said company and I'm basing this on what they told me....so Smith, please feel free to correct me if this is wrong), though, Medicare in Canada does not cover either dental, vision, or any drugs--whether prescription or OTC--that are taken on an outpatient basis (i.e. not directly administered in a hospital or clinic); most Canadians have supplemental private insurance to cover these kind of things.
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Re: I Need Your Help: Should I Take A Layoff?

Post by Libertarian666 » Sun Apr 12, 2020 4:10 pm

Smith1776 wrote: ↑
Sat Apr 11, 2020 1:48 pm
Hey guys, I need your input on a dilemma.

Our company has decided to continue paying us, even though we're not working, till June 1st. However, we were recently given the option to take a voluntary layoff. Why? Because Canadians that are laid off due to COVID-19 can collect a $2,000 a month emergency benefit from the federal government.

Ok, salient facts:

- My current pay from my employer is about $1,000 a month
- The emergency benefit I could receive is $2,000 a month
- The benefit only lasts 4 months
- The emergency benefit has a long list of eligibility requirements. I have studied it, and I appear to be eligible.. but you never know. I'm afraid of clawback risk. (https://www.canada.ca/en/services/benef ... ation.html)
- People who choose the voluntary layoff will be first to get laid off for real if the company needs to start reducing staffing when stores reopen. There is no guarantee I will get my job back.

So, even though the emergency benefit is more than my actual wage, the benefit is only temporary, and there's no guarantee i'll be rehired when all is said and done.

I'd like your thoughts if you have any. Am I missing something? Another angle I haven't considered? I'd appreciate others' perspective.
How long do you have to decide?
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Re: I Need Your Help: Should I Take A Layoff?

Post by CT-Scott » Sun Apr 12, 2020 7:22 pm

So you are currently only making $12K/year from this company? Is it safe to assume that you either have some other income source or you are living with your parents (or something along those lines)? If so, I think I'd take the $2K/month government payout with no work required. You're clearly a smart young fellow, so I think you'll be in OK shape to find new employment when things settle down. In fact, with the extra free time you'll have now, you could spend some of that time now to find some additional income sources, entrepreneurial ideas, etc.
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Re: I Need Your Help: Should I Take A Layoff?

Post by Ad Orientem » Sun Apr 12, 2020 8:06 pm

I'm leaning towards taking the layoff. My instincts are telling me that this mini SHTF (let's call it a practice run for when the Big One actually comes along) is going to start winding down around June if not earlier. So your unemployment may not be very long. In any case they are only promising to keep you on payroll up to June 1st. You have no benefits on the line and any serious medical issue is covered by your government. I'm not seeing a huge downside risk here. Ultimately though, this is your call and you should follow your gut.
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Re: I Need Your Help: Should I Take A Layoff?

Post by vnatale » Sun Apr 12, 2020 8:11 pm

Ad Orientem wrote: ↑
Sun Apr 12, 2020 8:06 pm
I'm leaning towards taking the layoff. My instincts are telling me that this mini SHTF (let's call it a practice run for when the Big One actually comes along) is going to start winding down around June if not earlier. So your unemployment may not be very long. In any case they are only promising to keep you on payroll up to June 1st. You have no benefits on the line and any serious medical issue is covered by your government. I'm not seeing a huge downside risk here. Ultimately though, this is your call and you should follow your gut.
I was hearing today that a full plan to deal with all that emerges is not going to fully be in place until about 18 months. I assume that is mostly taken up with the time to create a successful vaccine for the virus.

Vinny
Last edited by vnatale on Mon Apr 13, 2020 6:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: I Need Your Help: Should I Take A Layoff?

Post by Dieter » Mon Apr 13, 2020 12:16 am

Getting 8 months of salary in four months does sound appealing, and don't have to work!
(although technically, a little more than $2,000/mo -- $500/wk. Hey, it's a money forum....)

In the worst case, you'll be laid off in six week (June 1) and become eligible for CERB then.

If only 50% of employees are kept, do you expect to be in or out, even if don't take early layoff?

You'd be given up ~$1,500 in salary before the CERB kicks in and bottom of the list to come back when things open up again.

Are you wanting / needing / hoping to be working there 8 months from now?

How important is having potentially an extra month and a half of salary (9 1/2 vs 8) vs the extra time through June 1?

If can make good use of that extra time (school, prep for next chapter, create a Website, etc), might make sense to take early layoff.

Personally I'd lean to getting the $1,500 in hand to maximize guaranteed funds in these uncertain times.
(I'm admittedly a bit risk adverse.).
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Re: I Need Your Help: Should I Take A Layoff?

Post by Dieter » Mon Apr 13, 2020 12:17 am

vnatale wrote: ↑
Sun Apr 12, 2020 8:11 pm
Ad Orientem wrote: ↑
Sun Apr 12, 2020 8:06 pm
I'm leaning towards taking the layoff. My instincts are telling me that this mini SHTF (let's call it a practice run for when the Big One actually comes along) is going to start winding down around June if not earlier. So your unemployment may not be very long. In any case they are only promising to keep you on payroll up to June 1st. You have no benefits on the line and any serious medical issue is covered by your government. I'm not seeing a huge downside risk here. Ultimately though, this is your call and you should follow your gut.
I was hearing today that a full plan to deal with all that emerges is not going to fully be in place until about 18 months. I assume that is mostly taken up with the time to create a successful virus.

Vinny
I thought we already had a successful virus? :)
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Re: I Need Your Help: Should I Take A Layoff?

Post by vnatale » Mon Apr 13, 2020 6:55 am

Dieter wrote: ↑
Mon Apr 13, 2020 12:17 am
vnatale wrote: ↑
Sun Apr 12, 2020 8:11 pm
Ad Orientem wrote: ↑
Sun Apr 12, 2020 8:06 pm
I'm leaning towards taking the layoff. My instincts are telling me that this mini SHTF (let's call it a practice run for when the Big One actually comes along) is going to start winding down around June if not earlier. So your unemployment may not be very long. In any case they are only promising to keep you on payroll up to June 1st. You have no benefits on the line and any serious medical issue is covered by your government. I'm not seeing a huge downside risk here. Ultimately though, this is your call and you should follow your gut.
I was hearing today that a full plan to deal with all that emerges is not going to fully be in place until about 18 months. I assume that is mostly taken up with the time to create a successful virus.

Vinny
I thought we already had a successful virus? :)
Fixed it! Thanks!

Vinny
Above provided by: Vinny, who always says: "I only regret that I have but one lap to give to my cats." AND "I'm a more-is-more person."
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Re: I Need Your Help: Should I Take A Layoff?

Post by WiseOne » Mon Apr 13, 2020 9:32 am

Is the company offering you any extras for taking the layoff? e.g. severance pay?

If not, why would you take it? Unless you think that government-supplied $2K/month deal will go south. I suspect that very few people will accept a "voluntary layoff" under those conditions, and the company will start laying people off regardless. There is a chance though, that they might start offering some severance pay if they don't get enough volunteers. I personally would hold out for a while to see if that happens.

Also, Canada might start doing what's already happening in the US: extending/supplementing unemployment benefits. Yet another reason not to jump in too soon.
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Re: I Need Your Help: Should I Take A Layoff?

Post by Smith1776 » Mon Apr 13, 2020 6:11 pm

Hey guys, just an update. Thank you all for your replies and input. It was a super agonizing dilemma, but I finally reached a decision. I'm going to take the layoff.

Ultimately, the crux of it came down to two things:

1) I was worried that since the layoff was voluntary, that I technically wouldn't be eligible. (The CERB requirements page specifically says you have to lose your income for reasons beyond your control related to COVID-19.)

2) Those applying for the voluntary layoff would be first to be laid off for real if needed.

I decided to chat with some members of management. Apparently the HR and legal team has done a lot of work to ensure that we will have legal eligibility for CERB in regards to layoff status.

As for the second point, apparently it's way overblown. It's more likely that those with poor availability and poor recent work performance would be laid off.

So there it is. I will keep you guys updated on the process and how difficult/easy it becomes to get my hands on the funds. With this extra money the tuition burden will be a little easier this year. O0
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Re: I Need Your Help: Should I Take A Layoff?

Post by Dieter » Mon Apr 13, 2020 6:35 pm

Smith1776 wrote: ↑
Mon Apr 13, 2020 6:11 pm
Hey guys, just an update. Thank you all for your replies and input. It was a super agonizing dilemma, but I finally reached a decision. I'm going to take the layoff.

Ultimately, the crux of it came down to two things:

1) I was worried that since the layoff was voluntary, that I technically wouldn't be eligible. (The CERB requirements page specifically says you have to lose your income for reasons beyond your control related to COVID-19.)

2) Those applying for the voluntary layoff would be first to be laid off for real if needed.

I decided to chat with some members of management. Apparently the HR and legal team has done a lot of work to ensure that we will have legal eligibility for CERB in regards to layoff status.

As for the second point, apparently it's way overblown. It's more likely that those with poor availability and poor recent work performance would be laid off.

So there it is. I will keep you guys updated on the process and how difficult/easy it becomes to get my hands on the funds. With this extra money the tuition burden will be a little easier this year. O0
Congrats on making a (informed) decision.
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Re: I Need Your Help: Should I Take A Layoff?

Post by Ad Orientem » Mon Apr 13, 2020 8:51 pm

Good luck to you.
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