Libertarian666 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:26 am
glennds wrote: ↑Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:13 am
Libertarian666 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 17, 2020 5:37 pm
glennds wrote: ↑Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:03 am
Interesting that the number of evil, authoritarian dictators outweighs the list of benevolent ones. Perhaps this lends credibility to the adage that "Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely".
So which way would our present occupant of the White House take us (given the opportunity)? Who knows. You can be the judge.
My point in response to your comment is merely that an angry, fed up public has proven to be a high risk, combustible circumstance.
Please name an unconstitutional action that President Trump has taken, and explain exactly why it is unconstitutional.
I think he has abused a constitutional power, namely presidential pardon, in a way that has undermined legitimate due process rather than rescuing a victim who was deprived of legitimate due process. And he's done it flagrantly, numerous times, mostly for people connected to him.
So in other words, he used a constitutional power in a way you don't approve of.
That's not unconstitutional.
glennds wrote: ↑Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:03 am
If you point out that other Presidents have done so too, I would say they were equally wrong. Although I don't recall any in my lifetime who were quite as flagrant about it as Trump.
I guess that depends on what you mean by flagrant, and whether you are very young (or have a very bad memory). Remember the Marc Rich pardon? He was a big contributor to Bill Clinton, but I'm sure that's just a coincidence:
https://www.thoughtco.com/controversial ... ew-3368325
glennds wrote: ↑Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:03 am
On a related note, I happen to believe that the scope of executive authority has progressively expanded over the past 70 years or so, to the point where the office of the President is materially different than what is contemplated in the Constitution. This is just a personal opinion.
My post did not allege that Trump is an authoritarian dictator. Whether he will or not remains to be seen and is for each to judge. His characteristics, whether coincidental or aspirational are what they are.
So you have no evidence that he has acted unconstitutionally. Thanks for clearing that up.
Yes, with the disclaimer that I am not a Constitutional scholar, I do not have any evidence that Trump has acted unconstitutionally. I never alleged that he did. Nor did I say that it is impossible to be an authoritarian dictator within constitutional parameters. Nor did I definitively say Trump is a bona fide authoritarian dictator at this moment in time. I merely pointed to historical reference to say the circumstances are in place for a potential authoritarian dictatorship. Whether it will happen I cannot say.
Indeed, many authoritarian dictators implemented their power within what would have been perfectly legal parameters at the time, usually expanded use of executive authority. Hitler did so after the Reichstag Fire in 1933 under an act granting him emergency powers, specifically the Reichstag Fire Decree, and later the Enabling Act. These powers allowed Hitler to begin sending clandestine Federal police forces into German cities for the purpose of protecting the public. These police were the beginnings of the SS which ultimately came to function as Hitler's private police.
So if your thesis is, if it's Constitutional, it can't be bad, I wouldn't necessarily agree. The Constitution is a fairly broad and sometimes unspecific document. This is why we need a SCOTUS to interpret it and even they get it wrong more than most people think. The Constitution is whatever it is interpreted to be at a particular time, and more importantly, what is enforced and practiced.
Please do not put words in my mouth. I am not a "Never Trumper" nor an "orange man bad" tribe member. I'm just a fan of history and an observer of patterns with an interest in futurism, realizing that none of us can definitively predict it.
Question for you: Do you feel that the Constitution grants the President unlimited immunity and virtually unlimited power? William Barr set forth a memo that provides an interpretation of executive power that is unprecedented, for the most part, and certainly supportive of what Trump has claimed to be "absolute authority".
https://www.acslaw.org/expertforum/the- ... residency/. Barr has consistently interpreted expansive Presidential power in his career going back to Nixon.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... er/592951/
There are also lesser known classified executive powers known as Presidential Emergency Action Documents. It is believed that these powers, to which Congress is not privy, can permit the President to suspend habeus corpus, issue general warrants for the seizure of persons and property, detain "dangerous persons", and by some speculators, suspend the Constitution entirely.
] https://www.brennancenter.org/our-wor ... -documents. Plenty of reading and references in the footnotes.
I don't know if such a thing could ever come to pass, but if it did, would you support a Presidential suspension of the Constitution, or any of its specific Articles or Amendments?
Do you think the President has the authority to suspend or delay the election, and if he did, would you support it?