Another angle on the recent events in America and the world

[Xan]

I wonder how many serious gun owners there are in the US. Because the ones I have known have many guns and thousands of rounds of ammo. And there are a lot of them. There have to be hundreds of millions of rounds of ammo in private hands.

There are enough of them to take on their police departments. Maybe. But how are they going to do against the military?

Vinny

What percentage of them are IN the military?

[shekels]

Also Do Not Forget..
Federal Court has Affirmed in the U.S.
Police Have No Duty to Protect You.

[Smith1776]

This thread ended up going way better than I thought. As opposed to civil rights leaders and politicians, the person whose opinion I'm really looking forward to hearing is Dave Chappelle.

[dualstow]

This thread ended up going way better than I thought. As opposed to civil rights leaders and politicians, the person whose opinion I'm really looking forward to hearing is Dave Chappelle.

I like his bit where he said,

I think every African American should get a permit to carry a firearm. (Nearly silent applause, some nods and gestures of ‘yeah!’ Pause....) And then guns will be promptly outlawed!

That’s a paraphrase.

[Smith1776]

This thread ended up going way better than I thought. As opposed to civil rights leaders and politicians, the person whose opinion I'm really looking forward to hearing is Dave Chappelle.

I like his bit where he said,

I think every African American should get a permit to carry a firearm. (Nearly silent applause, some nods and gestures of ‘yeah!’ Pause....) And then guns will be promptly outlawed!

That’s a paraphrase.

Holy moly! I totally forgot about that bit but remember it now.

I can't imagine how far Chappelle is going to take this latest news in his next special. You just know he's going to run with it. I just wish he'd stop smoking. That comedy legend has got to keep himself healthy so he can stick around with us!

[Smith1776]

Unpopular opinion incoming:

Sometimes violence is the answer. I don't necessarily mean in the context of the riots/protests happening now. I'm not necessarily saying any of that is justified. But speaking in a broader context. I've been hearing lots of voices about how every protest, every movement, and every lamentation about government and the abuse of citizens has to be expressed peacefully.

This whole idea of being peaceful and going to the ballot box to enact change is utter horse shit because it's very obvious that the political system is rigged and nothing will change that way.

Hell, America as a country was founded on violent revolution.

What nerve politicians have to tell citizens to be peaceful and non-violent towards those that clearly have no intention of giving them even a shred of that decency in return. More and more in America, blindly espousing the idea of non-violence is like being beat up in a fight and not fighting back because you don't want to hurt anyone.

Between the spying, the erosion of rights, and the killing of innocent citizens (domestically and abroad), it makes me think we really should start that seasteading state on an oil rig...

[dualstow]

Unpopular opinion incoming:

Sometimes violence is the answer. I don't necessarily mean in the context of the riots/protests happening now. I'm not necessarily saying any of that is justified. But speaking in a broader context. I've been hearing lots of voices about how every protest, every movement, and every lamentation about government and the abuse of citizens has to be expressed peacefully.

This whole idea of being peaceful and going to the ballot box to enact change is utter horse shit because it's very obvious that the political system is rigged and nothing will change that way.

Hell, America as a country was founded on violent revolution.
...

You reminded me of this clip of James Baldwin talking about different people taking up arms.
https://youtu.be/ZVjZipnb_hc. EDIT: sorry, forgot to paste it, initially.

Am I the only one here that thinks part of the reason the rioting has gotten so out of hand is bc of the Covid lockdown?

I think it amplified things, no doubt.

[Mountaineer]

Am I the only one here that thinks part of the reason the rioting has gotten so out of hand is bc of the Covid lockdown? I agree with Scott Adams that this has set the progress of Black back 10 years. But doesn't take much to make people snap under the conditions we've been under.

I’m with you Pug. My wife and I just had that conversation. And we added hot weather to the mix. Pressure cooker times indeed.

[Tortoise]

Am I the only one here that thinks part of the reason the rioting has gotten so out of hand is bc of the Covid lockdown? I agree with Scott Adams that this has set the progress of Black back 10 years. But doesn't take much to make people snap under the conditions we've been under.

I’m with you Pug. My wife and I just had that conversation. And we added hot weather to the mix. Pressure cooker times indeed.

Yes, in fact Scott Adams explicitly said on his podcast the other day that he thinks a big contributor to the riots and looting has been "pent-up energy" created by the Covid-19 lockdowns.

[Smith1776]

You reminded me of this clip of James Baldwin talking about different people taking up arms.
https://youtu.be/ZVjZipnb_hc. EDIT: sorry, forgot to paste it, initially.

Powerful.

Is that Dick Cavett??? Before my time, but I know him well because he had Bobby Fischer on his show!

[Hal]

First off I would like to thank Smith for starting this interesting topic and the forum members for intelligent discussion.

A couple of questions/thoughts....

In the US, did peaceful demonstrations or violent riots ever change anything? I always remember General Haigs quote back in the 80's

Could anyone explain to me why Jesus used violence.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleansing_of_the_Temple

From what I understand (perhaps incorrectly) the US was founded on Christian principles, so how did the founders want change to be made and how does that tie in with your right to bear arms?

[dualstow]

Is that Dick Cavett?

Yup, that’s him. Before my time too, really.

[Smith1776]

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/30/us/d ... K4DO_dcZtY

A New York Times article which dovetails nicely with what we've just been talking about. "Thousands of Complaints Do Little to Change Police Ways" the title reads.

Again, I'm absolutely not an advocate of violence in general terms. However, there is a time for diplomacy and a time to take action.

[Smith1776]

First off I would like to thank Smith for starting this interesting topic and the forum members for intelligent discussion.

A couple of questions/thoughts....

In the US, did peaceful demonstrations or violent riots ever change anything? I always remember General Haigs quote back in the 80's

Could anyone explain to me why Jesus used violence.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleansing_of_the_Temple

From what I understand (perhaps incorrectly) the US was founded on Christian principles, so how did the founders want change to be made and how does that tie in with your right to bear arms?

That quote is amazing. It says so much in so few words.

I'm not sure about the cleansing of the Temple. I am not that knowledgeable about Christianity and even less so on biblical history.

Neil deGrasse Tyson did an interesting segment on the Joe Rogan podcast regarding America's founding as an expressly non-Christian nation. There's supposed to be a clear separation between church and state in addition to religious freedom. Though of course in many parts of the country it seems as though these core principles are not shared today. This religious freedom is one of the biggest reasons why America attracted so many immigrants historically.

[dualstow]

Could anyone explain to me why Jesus used violence.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleansing_of_the_Temple
..

I don’t know, but thank you for linking that page. I learned some new things.

[vnatale]

I think this might be somewhat related to this topic.

How close or far do you live from any of the unrest of the last several days?

Closest to me is Boston - 1.75 hours / 90 miles away.

Where I live is quite rural, economically diverse neighborhood, houses with wide ranging values ($100,000 to $500,000?). I'd expect us to be one of the last areas to be affected, if ever.

Vinny

[dualstow]

I think this might be somewhat related to this topic.

How close or far do you live from any of the unrest of the last several days?
...

10-15 minutes walk from this spot. Hence my curfew sig. We’re locked in for the third night in a row.

0A606115-CE83-4C3A-8B6A-CC1052D2C094.png (1.41 MiB) Viewed 5041 times

[drumminj]

I think this might be somewhat related to this topic.

How close or far do you live from any of the unrest of the last several days?

A couple of blocks. Rioters/looters were parking on our street last night, walking up to do their mayhem in the more commercial area.

I don't disagree that violence is needed at times to enact change. However, that violence needs to be directed at the right entity. Workers, store owners, general members of the population aren't the right focus for the issues raised, IMO.

Why aren't they rioting/destroying city hall? Or the houses of politicians? Instead, folks here stormed the "malls"/shopping areas (3 of them) simultaneously. Destroyed small, private businesses. What kind of change does one expect that to create?

Instead, businesses that were already hurting are just in worse shape now, even less likely to re-open or stay afloat.

[vnatale]

I think this might be somewhat related to this topic.

How close or far do you live from any of the unrest of the last several days?
...

10-15 minutes walk from this spot. Hence my curfew sig. We’re locked in for the third night in a row.


0A606115-CE83-4C3A-8B6A-CC1052D2C094.png

Means you are about only a mile away? Scary. My thoughts are first for the safety of you and your wife and then your neighbors. This is only destructive. Cannot see anything productive resulting from this. Just listened to Trump and it seems like his choice of action will only result in escalation.

Vinny

[vnatale]

I think this might be somewhat related to this topic.

How close or far do you live from any of the unrest of the last several days?

A couple of blocks. Rioters/looters were parking on our street last night, walking up to do their mayhem in the more commercial area.

I don't disagree that violence is needed at times to enact change. However, that violence needs to be directed at the right entity. Workers, store owners, general members of the population aren't the right focus for the issues raised, IMO.

Why aren't they rioting/destroying city hall? Or the houses of politicians? Instead, folks here stormed the "malls"/shopping areas (3 of them) simultaneously. Destroyed small, private businesses. What kind of change does one expect that to create?

Instead, businesses that were already hurting are just in worse shape now, even less likely to re-open or stay afloat.

Again, my thoughts go out to you (and whoever is with you) for safety. I agree with all you say. Don't see the logic of the actions leading to any productive result.

Vinny

[dualstow]

Means you are about only a mile away? Scary. My thoughts are first for the safety of you and your wife and then your neighbors. This is only destructive. Cannot see anything productive resulting from this. Just listened to Trump and it seems like his choice of action will only result in escalation.

Just under a mile (I looked it up). It’s part of my nearly daily routine to go by there, pre-Corona.
Honestly, I agree with Trump’s call for the National Guard.

A couple of blocks. Rioters/looters were parking on our street last night, walking up to do their mayhem in the more commercial area.

I don't disagree that violence is needed at times to enact change. However, that violence needs to be directed at the right entity. Workers, store owners, general members of the population aren't the right focus for the issues raised, IMO.

Why aren't they rioting/destroying city hall? Or the houses of politicians? Instead, folks here stormed the "malls"/shopping areas (3 of them) simultaneously. Destroyed small, private businesses. What kind of change does one expect that to create?

Instead, businesses that were already hurting are just in worse shape now, even less likely to re-open or stay afloat.

Exactly. Destroying small businesses that were just getting back on their feet. It’s so stupid. Sends a strong message that may or may not amount to something, but most definitely and immediately ruins a lot of lives and livelihoods. Black-owned businesses included.

[Smith1776]

Strong agree here. Mobbing private businesses and the homes of ordinary citizens is nowhere close to what you might call the intelligent aggression I was alluding to earlier.

[pp4me]

They closed the Walmart a few blocks from where I live early last night for fear of the rioters. I live in a small city in Florida so the idea that there could be rioting that close to home was something I would have never expected in a million years. Last time I saw SJW's behaving like that was on the streets of Saigon but at least I was armed with a shotgun. I don't own a gun nowadays but I may have to think about it.

I remember the race riots of the 60's very well but I don't recall that the rioters ever attacked the White House. WTF?

I think there is a lot going on here that has nothing to do with race at all. Expect the blame to be laid at the feet of Donald Trump, both for being a racist and then not taking a hard enough stand against the rioters which I'm hearing today.

[Mountaineer]

Could anyone explain to me why Jesus used violence.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleansing_of_the_Temple
..

I don’t know, but thank you for linking that page. I learned some new things.

Some views are discussed here:
https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/ ... the-temple

My personal view: The Triune God (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) is a God of justice and a God of mercy, both a God that dispenses law and a God that gives the gospel. Law to drive sinners, everyone, to repent (contrition and turning to faith in the promises of Jesus) so they can hear the gospel - the free forgiveness of sin. See Romans 6:23. Jesus was dispensing “justice” at the temple to those who had not repented, those who were trying to use God for their personal gain rather than listening to hear God’s Word. The account of Jesus being angry with those who do not repent has application throughout history; the God of justice gives non-believers exactly what they deserve - eternal death. The God of mercy gives believers comfort and hope and eternal life, not what they deserve, because Jesus took their sins upon himself and gave them his righteousness. Quite a good deal! YMMV.

[vnatale]

Just under a mile (I looked it up). It’s part of my nearly daily routine to go by there, pre-Corona.
Honestly, I agree with Trump’s call for the National Guard.

He has also authorized the military to go into cities.


President Trump authorizes US military to respond to riots, looting nationwide

President said Washington, D.C.'s 7 p.m. curfew will be strictly enforced

https://www.wsls.com/news/2020/06/01/pr ... ationwide/

Vinny