Every knee shall bow, every tongue confess

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stuper1
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Re: Every knee shall, every tongue confess

Post by stuper1 » Tue Jun 09, 2020 12:38 pm

technovelist wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 10:59 am
stuper1 wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 10:49 am
Cortopassi wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 8:21 am
stuper1 wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 10:37 pm
Instead of addressing the real problem, which is poor family structure in the black community, we will hear ad nauseam about systemic racism which really isn't there. And why? Because the media sees it as a wedge to divide the country and promote Democrats.
I agree on this, but I also have not seen any implementation that has come close to fixing this. Have there been any that anyone knows of? There has to be a democratic or republican leader who's had some level of success somewhere in addressing this? Or are you immediately called a racist if you call out the family structure issues, even if you are black?
Well, that's because the sad fact is that there is no implementation that will come close to fixing it. There are no government policies that are going to fix this problem. The toothpaste is out of the tube.

I think three factors caused this. First off, just the general decline in family values in the mid 1900s. The usual stuff, women working outside the home first voluntarily and then because they had to, casual sex becoming more accepted and then basically promoted by the entertainment industry, etc. Government welfare policy also hurt badly because it basically encourages people not to get married. The second thing is that many jobs of poor blacks and whites were taken by even poorer people in China and southeast Asia as our manufacturing moved off shore. So, now black men and women can't get a decent job to support a family. How can the government fix this without basically becoming a command-and-control communist system? The government could help a bit by not encouraging so much immigration, which has hurt job prospects domestically for poorer people.

The third factor I can think of will probably get me banned. I'm curious if anyone else agrees with me or thinks I'm crazy or evil. I'm going to speak on averages here, not on any individual person. On average, black people are more muscular than white people. I don't know much about physiology, but I believe that more muscle is due to more testosterone. I believe that more testosterone leads to less impulse control. Without a good father figure in the home to channel the young person's energies, maybe we could expect that trouble comes more easily to THE AVERAGE young black male than to THE AVERAGE young white male. Maybe that's why there are more blacks in prison than whites.

I don't believe we have systemic racism. I have friends that are black. They seem to get along fine in society, because they are responsible. The people who seem to have problems with society don't seem responsible. Maybe it's not their fault. They had a bad upbringing. Maybe so, but if they do bad things, they are still going to end up in jail. In that sense, they are paying for the sins of the past, but if we don't deal with them we will just have lawlessness. It's very hard and in many cases virtually impossible to actually rehabilitate and change someone who grew up with poor parenting. They have too much baggage. It is possible on a spiritual level, but government programs will be of little help.
I'm probably going to surprise some people here by saying that I think you are too pessimistic.
I've already posted my proposal to improve the situation by getting the government out of the way.
Very briefly, the War on Drugs, the War on Poverty, and the War on Men have combined in the most pernicious way in the black community. End those wars and things will start to improve.
I hope you're right. But I don't think so. I am definitely a pessimist about such things. I probably wouldn't be interested in the PP if I were otherwise. I am an optimist about the possibility for individual spiritual change because I've seen that firsthand with many people including myself.
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Re: Every knee shall, every tongue confess

Post by Xan » Tue Jun 09, 2020 12:40 pm

In Guns, Germs, and Steel, the theory is that people who were able to move east/west did better than those able to move north/south. Farming techniques etc translated to different places along lines of latitude than along lines of longitude. So areas that were temperate and contiguous to other temperate places (North Africa, Europe, Asia) did better than "vertically" aligned places (the Americas, Africa).
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Re: Every knee shall, every tongue confess

Post by stuper1 » Tue Jun 09, 2020 12:44 pm

I don't think that explains why people at different latitudes had different technological innovation rates, but maybe I'm slow.
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Re: Every knee shall, every tongue confess

Post by sophie » Tue Jun 09, 2020 4:54 pm

stuper1 wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 12:35 pm
In Kenya, they have a strong family structure, so things work fine.

Here, they don't have a strong family structure, and things aren't working fine.

As a physician, do you agree with me that blacks on average are more muscular than whites, that muscle comes from testosterone, and that testosterone influences impulse control? I'm glad to be proven wrong.
I'm not aware of any racial differences in testosterone. Also not sure about the more muscular part. There are some anatomical differences thought.

I think it's a well-known stereotype around the world among almost every non-black culture that blacks are impulsive as a generalization. Does this stereotype have a physiological basis?
I don't buy either of these assumptions. There is a black resident who I have worked closely with (on research & clinical) for the past 3 years. Impulsive is about the last word I would use to describe him. There are also black faculty members of my acquaintance who, similarly, could not possibly be consistent with that stereotype.

Isn't Africa known as the cradle of civilization? And yet, there's little history of great technological achievements from Africa. Is it racist to think that some groups are more short-term oriented than long-term oriented?
That's an interesting point. I've thought about that one though...it seems like technological achievements have a lot to do with environment. In cold weather you have to be more innovative just to survive. In Africa there is much less to drive you to make technical advances.
Not proof or anything, just a thought. I will also venture to say that there does seem to be a wholly different mindset. Very socially focused and less focused on things/achievements. Living in a rural village and attending Mass was truly an amazing experience - the cohesiveness was something way beyond my experience.
Here's a youtube video. You might think this is exceptional, but it's not - the masses I went to were all just like this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chE3cAw ... dio=1&t=26
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Re: Every knee shall, every tongue confess

Post by stuper1 » Tue Jun 09, 2020 5:13 pm

Gotcha . . . I know it's not a fun or popular thing to talk about.

When 70% of the NFL players are made up of a race that makes up 13% of the population, I would have thought it's pretty well established that that race is more muscular than the other. But I'm just a crazy guy on the internet, so what do I know.

I certainly believe you about the social focus and cohesion. I'm not trying to denigrate any race. I'm sure every race has its strong and weak points. I also don't think it's wrong to talk about differences between races, but a lot of people disagree, and maybe they're right, at least in this country, given our shameful history where whites took brutal advantage of blacks. I think in some other countries people talk much more openly about racial differences and basically they just acknowledge them, laugh at them, and people just get along with each other while acknowledging their differences.
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Re: Every knee shall, every tongue confess

Post by vnatale » Tue Jun 09, 2020 7:39 pm

stuper1 wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 12:35 pm
In Kenya, they have a strong family structure, so things work fine.

Here, they don't have a strong family structure, and things aren't working fine.

As a physician, do you agree with me that blacks on average are more muscular than whites, that muscle comes from testosterone, and that testosterone influences impulse control? I'm glad to be proven wrong.

I think it's a well-known stereotype around the world among almost every non-black culture that blacks are impulsive as a generalization. Does this stereotype have a physiological basis?

Isn't Africa known as the cradle of civilization? And yet, there's little history of great technological achievements from Africa. Is it racist to think that some groups are more short-term oriented than long-term oriented?
That might be indisputable using the NFL and the NBA was key pieces of evidence?

Vinny
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Re: Every knee shall, every tongue confess

Post by vnatale » Tue Jun 09, 2020 7:42 pm

stuper1 wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 5:13 pm
Gotcha . . . I know it's not a fun or popular thing to talk about.

When 70% of the NFL players are made up of a race that makes up 13% of the population, I would have thought it's pretty well established that that race is more muscular than the other. But I'm just a crazy guy on the internet, so what do I know.

I certainly believe you about the social focus and cohesion. I'm not trying to denigrate any race. I'm sure every race has its strong and weak points. I also don't think it's wrong to talk about differences between races, but a lot of people disagree, and maybe they're right, at least in this country, given our shameful history where whites took brutal advantage of blacks. I think in some other countries people talk much more openly about racial differences and basically they just acknowledge them, laugh at them, and people just get along with each other while acknowledging their differences.
To repeat my point, as a percentage of the American NBA players I'm sure that the black portion would be much higher than 70%.

Vinny
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Re: Every knee shall, every tongue confess

Post by l82start » Tue Jun 09, 2020 7:45 pm

stuper1 wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 5:13 pm
Gotcha . . . I know it's not a fun or popular thing to talk about.

When 70% of the NFL players are made up of a race that makes up 13% of the population, I would have thought it's pretty well established that that race is more muscular than the other. But I'm just a crazy guy on the internet, so what do I know.

I certainly believe you about the social focus and cohesion. I'm not trying to denigrate any race. I'm sure every race has its strong and weak points. I also don't think it's wrong to talk about differences between races, but a lot of people disagree, and maybe they're right, at least in this country, given our shameful history where whites took brutal advantage of blacks. I think in some other countries people talk much more openly about racial differences and basically they just acknowledge them, laugh at them, and people just get along with each other while acknowledging their differences.
you might need to consider as a possibility that American blacks vs africans have been changed by slavery, they were bred and killed based on characteristics, a willful and thinking slave, short life less breeding.... big strong slave life longer life, more kids
“The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary.”

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Re: Every knee shall, every tongue confess

Post by vnatale » Tue Jun 09, 2020 7:51 pm

l82start wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 7:45 pm
stuper1 wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 5:13 pm
Gotcha . . . I know it's not a fun or popular thing to talk about.

When 70% of the NFL players are made up of a race that makes up 13% of the population, I would have thought it's pretty well established that that race is more muscular than the other. But I'm just a crazy guy on the internet, so what do I know.

I certainly believe you about the social focus and cohesion. I'm not trying to denigrate any race. I'm sure every race has its strong and weak points. I also don't think it's wrong to talk about differences between races, but a lot of people disagree, and maybe they're right, at least in this country, given our shameful history where whites took brutal advantage of blacks. I think in some other countries people talk much more openly about racial differences and basically they just acknowledge them, laugh at them, and people just get along with each other while acknowledging their differences.
you might need to consider as a possibility that American blacks vs africans have been changed by slavery, they were bred and killed based on characteristics, a willful and thinking slave, short life less breeding.... big strong slave life longer life, more kids
Would that have persisted 155 years after the last legal slaves? That's nearly 8 generations?

Vinny
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l82start
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Re: Every knee shall, every tongue confess

Post by l82start » Tue Jun 09, 2020 8:04 pm

well i am not even remotely a geneticist so "i don't know"... but i suspect that unless there is a large influx of new genetic material, (mixing with non slave Africans and with other races) that after 8 generations you might still see strong signs of predominant characteristics. the number of pro athletes and a comparison of America to Africa might hint at the answer...
“The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary.”

Belief is the death of intelligence. As soon as one believes a doctrine of any sort, or assumes certitude, one stops thinking about that aspect of existence
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Re: Every knee shall, every tongue confess

Post by sophie » Wed Jun 10, 2020 7:03 am

stuper1 wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 5:13 pm
When 70% of the NFL players are made up of a race that makes up 13% of the population, I would have thought it's pretty well established that that race is more muscular than the other. But I'm just a crazy guy on the internet, so what do I know.
Don't you think that could be due to a cultural bias? In other words, black society generally values a football player more than, say, a physician or lawyer. The opposite is true among other societies e.g. Jewish communities.

Traditionally, Irish Catholics have made up the majority of the NYPD - but that's not so true anymore, as the force is now dominated by Hispanics. Does that somehow tell you about physical attributes of Irish Catholics? Or of Hispanics? And wouldn't the change argue against genetics as the primary driver?

Similarly, pro baseball used to be almost exclusively white. It's now largely Hispanic. Black players are very much a minority. How would you reconcile this with the football/baseball statistics, while relying on a genetic explanation?

The one instance where you could maybe argue a case for genetics: marathon running. Kenyan runners manage to win the NYC marathon every time. It's not muscle though, it's about their build (long legs) and the fact that track is very popular in Kenya.
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Re: Every knee shall, every tongue confess

Post by technovelist » Wed Jun 10, 2020 8:14 am

sophie wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 7:03 am
stuper1 wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 5:13 pm
When 70% of the NFL players are made up of a race that makes up 13% of the population, I would have thought it's pretty well established that that race is more muscular than the other. But I'm just a crazy guy on the internet, so what do I know.
Don't you think that could be due to a cultural bias? In other words, black society generally values a football player more than, say, a physician or lawyer. The opposite is true among other societies e.g. Jewish communities.

Traditionally, Irish Catholics have made up the majority of the NYPD - but that's not so true anymore, as the force is now dominated by Hispanics. Does that somehow tell you about physical attributes of Irish Catholics? Or of Hispanics? And wouldn't the change argue against genetics as the primary driver?

Similarly, pro baseball used to be almost exclusively white. It's now largely Hispanic. Black players are very much a minority. How would you reconcile this with the football/baseball statistics, while relying on a genetic explanation?

The one instance where you could maybe argue a case for genetics: marathon running. Kenyan runners manage to win the NYC marathon every time. It's not muscle though, it's about their build (long legs) and the fact that track is very popular in Kenya.
Basketball used to be dominated by... Jews!

"The Philadelphia basketball team had a pint-sized but flashy star shooter. Its old school coach was more teacher than tough disciplinarian. References to the Biblical David abounded in the media.

"Sounds like the NBA's new media darling, the Philadelphia 76ers, who captured the hearts of much of America with their gritty determination.

"Nope. It's the South Philadelphia Hebrew Association SPHAs (pronounced "spas"), which dominated basketball in the 1920s and '30s. It's a team steeped in basketball lore.

"The flashy shooter was set-shot expert Inky Lautman and the Biblical David was the six-pointed star on the early SPHA's jerseys. The savvy coach was Eddie Gottlieb, who was also the owner of the most successful team in basketball history. "

(from http://www.jewishmag.com/45mag/basketba ... etball.htm)
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