Every knee shall bow, every tongue confess

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sophie
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Re: Every knee shall, every tongue confess

Post by sophie » Wed Jun 10, 2020 10:14 am

#shutdownSTEM

A one-day "strike" by researchers in STEM fields. Even prestigious journals have gotten into the act:

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586- ... f%20racism.

This has seriously gone too far. How can you be a scientist and not understand how bogus the complaints are? I found out about it when a research group meeting was cancelled today because of it. I decided to honor the day by listening to a Candace Owens youtube video. Now back to work with me!
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Re: Every knee shall, every tongue confess

Post by technovelist » Wed Jun 10, 2020 10:56 am

sophie wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 10:14 am
#shutdownSTEM

A one-day "strike" by researchers in STEM fields. Even prestigious journals have gotten into the act:

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586- ... f%20racism.

This has seriously gone too far. How can you be a scientist and not understand how bogus the complaints are? I found out about it when a research group meeting was cancelled today because of it. I decided to honor the day by listening to a Candace Owens youtube video. Now back to work with me!
Many scientists don't apply the scientific approach to the world in anything but their own field.
If they did, the world would be a better place.
Another nod to the most beautiful equation: e + 1 = 0
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Re: Every knee shall, every tongue confess

Post by pp4me » Wed Jun 10, 2020 12:26 pm

sophie wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 7:03 am
stuper1 wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 5:13 pm
When 70% of the NFL players are made up of a race that makes up 13% of the population, I would have thought it's pretty well established that that race is more muscular than the other. But I'm just a crazy guy on the internet, so what do I know.
Don't you think that could be due to a cultural bias? In other words, black society generally values a football player more than, say, a physician or lawyer. The opposite is true among other societies e.g. Jewish communities.

Traditionally, Irish Catholics have made up the majority of the NYPD - but that's not so true anymore, as the force is now dominated by Hispanics. Does that somehow tell you about physical attributes of Irish Catholics? Or of Hispanics? And wouldn't the change argue against genetics as the primary driver?

Similarly, pro baseball used to be almost exclusively white. It's now largely Hispanic. Black players are very much a minority. How would you reconcile this with the football/baseball statistics, while relying on a genetic explanation?

The one instance where you could maybe argue a case for genetics: marathon running. Kenyan runners manage to win the NYC marathon every time. It's not muscle though, it's about their build (long legs) and the fact that track is very popular in Kenya.
What about IQ? Going there can be very dangerous as Charles Murray learned the hard way. That there are clear variations in IQ that can be broken down statistically by race I think he showed very effectively no matter how much people want to deny it. I've only read summaries of his work so I'm not sure whether he even posited that it was due to genetics but he is now a pariah for simply observing the obvious. I suspect that if Caucasians had come out on the bottom of the scale instead of just behind Jews and Asians that would probably be easily accepted but unfortunately it was blacks. So obviously this has to be due to "systemic racism" (translation - evil white people).
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Re: Every knee shall, every tongue confess

Post by stuper1 » Wed Jun 10, 2020 12:52 pm

You can have smart people and dumb people from every race, so nothing that can be said would apply to any one individual. It certainly seems possible to me that the average IQs of different races could vary. But then again it may not be the case. It seems a very hard thing to measure in an unbiased manner. I'm not sure what we would do with that information anyway in terms of setting social policies. To me, we have what we have, and we need to do the best with it, and set social policies to encourage every person to do the best with what they've got.

Regarding helping disadvantaged people, everybody always says that we need to fix the education system. Of course, that doesn't work if the family structure is broken. We can keep pouring boatloads of money into education, but if there aren't parents at home to encourage the kids, then it will make little to no difference. The policies that should be adopted are ones designed to strengthen the family, but I'm not holding my breath expecting that to happen, because those policies are not politically useful.
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Re: Every knee shall, every tongue confess

Post by sophie » Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:04 pm

stuper1 wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 12:52 pm
Regarding helping disadvantaged people, everybody always says that we need to fix the education system. Of course, that doesn't work if the family structure is broken. We can keep pouring boatloads of money into education, but if there aren't parents at home to encourage the kids, then it will make little to no difference. The policies that should be adopted are ones designed to strengthen the family, but I'm not holding my breath expecting that to happen, because those policies are not politically useful.
+1.

Remember the thread about how teachers in many inner city schools are forbidden to do anything to stop the violence & all out war that goes on in classrooms? because of race relation reasons?

Perhaps some community effort involving extended family counseling might help, but what it will require first and foremost is black leaders speaking up about the problem. I was hopeful that President Obama would do this, after he got off to a great start by admonishing inner city kids for dressing like clowns, with their pants down and underwear showing, and to "be respectful". Unfortunately, that was his last effort in that direction. I guess he must have got complaints for it.
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Re: Every knee shall, every tongue confess

Post by stuper1 » Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:09 pm

Limiting immigration and bringing back manufacturing jobs would go a long way toward helping working class people to be able to be responsible family members.
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Re: Every knee shall, every tongue confess

Post by Xan » Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:29 pm

stuper1 wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 12:52 pm
Regarding helping disadvantaged people, everybody always says that we need to fix the education system. Of course, that doesn't work if the family structure is broken. We can keep pouring boatloads of money into education, but if there aren't parents at home to encourage the kids, then it will make little to no difference. The policies that should be adopted are ones designed to strengthen the family, but I'm not holding my breath expecting that to happen, because those policies are not politically useful.
Stossel's "Stupid in America" special (which is fantastic, by the way) pretty well illustrates that the problem with education is not lack of money. He followed a number of small schools (I think they were charter schools) operating on an absolute shoestring which were achieving better outcomes in every way than the crummy public school which spent many times the amount of money per student. I remember one of them that couldn't afford a full-time janitor, and so the kids were responsible for cleaning up the cafeteria, setting up chairs, and a number of other things. These tasks helped the kids to have some skin in the game in their school.
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Re: Every knee shall, every tongue confess

Post by dualstow » Wed Jun 10, 2020 2:38 pm

sophie wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 10:14 am
#shutdownSTEM

A one-day "strike" by researchers in STEM fields. Even prestigious journals have gotten into the act:

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586- ... f%20racism.

This has seriously gone too far. How can you be a scientist and not understand how bogus the complaints are? I found out about it when a research group meeting was cancelled today because of it. I decided to honor the day by listening to a Candace Owens youtube video. Now back to work with me!
👍 (thumbs up to the Candace Owens watching, not the canceling).
forcemeat, ie stuffing, is etymologically related to ‘farce’. When you say something is a farce, a joke, you’re saying something is a bunch of stuffing.
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Re: Every knee shall, every tongue confess

Post by Tortoise » Wed Jun 10, 2020 2:54 pm

stuper1 wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:09 pm
Limiting immigration and bringing back manufacturing jobs would go a long way toward helping working class people to be able to be responsible family members.
Two other huge contributors to the destruction of working-class families:
  1. The welfare state, which allows and encourages mothers to have kids without a husband/father to help support them
  2. Marriage laws, which are now heavily biased in favor of women, thus strongly discouraging men from getting married
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Re: Every knee shall, every tongue confess

Post by stuper1 » Wed Jun 10, 2020 3:24 pm

I would venture to say that just through bad luck a lot of these non-racist negative factors started showing up at just about the time when the last of the true systemic racism was being eliminated. This has made it difficult to disentangle the causes of negative outcomes. So, we'll continue to throw money down the drain for stupid big-government social programs that not only don't help, but actually make things worse, rather than dealing with the real problems.
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Re: Every knee shall, every tongue confess

Post by pp4me » Wed Jun 10, 2020 3:52 pm

stuper1 wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 12:52 pm
Regarding helping disadvantaged people, everybody always says that we need to fix the education system. Of course, that doesn't work if the family structure is broken.
I think It also doesn't work if you start by assuming that every one is equal in terms of IQ, or at least an IQ that we have correlated with success in life. because it simply isn't true, racial disparities notwithstanding. It just sets some people up for failure which they will have to deal with for the rest of their lives whether they be black, white or any other race.
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Re: Every knee shall, every tongue confess

Post by technovelist » Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:08 pm

Tortoise wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 2:54 pm
stuper1 wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:09 pm
Limiting immigration and bringing back manufacturing jobs would go a long way toward helping working class people to be able to be responsible family members.
Two other huge contributors to the destruction of working-class families:
  1. The welfare state, which allows and encourages mothers to have kids without a husband/father to help support them
  2. Marriage laws, which are now heavily biased in favor of women, thus strongly discouraging men from getting married
Right. The "War on Poverty", the "War on Drugs", and the "War on Men" have all contributed mightily.
Another nod to the most beautiful equation: e + 1 = 0
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