All hail the new People's Republic of... CHAZ?

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Re: All hail the new People's Republic of... CHAZ?

Post by pp4me » Fri Jun 12, 2020 6:53 am

Tucker Carlson had an interesting take on CHAZ. Apparently they believe in strict border control and aren't allowing illegal immigrants into their new country. How do people get so idiotic?
Simonjester wrote: running out of food...
enforcing rules by ... beating people up...

we used to have to read lord of the flies in school.. now they just encourage you to go out and live it...
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Re: All hail the new People's Republic of... CHAZ?

Post by pp4me » Fri Jun 12, 2020 7:31 am

I've heard some people saying Trump doesn't have the legal authority to send in the military.

Say What? Then how is it that the Confederate States of America isn't still a country?
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Re: All hail the new People's Republic of... CHAZ?

Post by Libertarian666 » Fri Jun 12, 2020 7:53 am

pp4me wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 6:53 am
Tucker Carlson had an interesting take on CHAZ. Apparently they believe in strict border control and aren't allowing illegal immigrants into their new country. How do people get so idiotic?
Practice!
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Re: All hail the new People's Republic of... CHAZ?

Post by Xan » Fri Jun 12, 2020 9:03 am

pp4me wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 7:31 am
I've heard some people saying Trump doesn't have the legal authority to send in the military.

Say What? Then how is it that the Confederate States of America isn't still a country?
Several states deciding to leave the Union is so different from rioting in the streets that there is no comparison. Raising an army to keep states in the Union has no legal basis. Assisting governors in keeping order does.

The election of Lincoln prompted seven states to secede. It was raising an army to stop them which prompted many others to secede (or try to). This group was led by Virginia. The official number of post-army secessions is 4, but Maryland (and possibly Delaware) would have if not for federal cannons pointing at Baltimore, and Kentucky had representatives in both governments.
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Re: All hail the new People's Republic of... CHAZ?

Post by GT » Fri Jun 12, 2020 1:28 pm

according to USATODAY there is a free sprit vibe going on -

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... 173968001/

"What's the scene like inside the Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone?
News reports describe the occupied area as peaceful and safe. The words "Black Lives Matter" were painted on East Pine Street. Free food has been handed out at a "No Cop Co-op." Speakers, poets and other performers share ideas and art.

A sign on the abandoned police precinct reads that the building is "property of the Seattle people." The Seattle Times reported that some protesters hope to turn the building into a community center.

A community garden has also been planted in Cal Anderson Park. "We’re forced to build new plots because people are giving us so many plants," Marcus Henderson, who was working in the gardens, told the Seattle Times."

I look forward to vacationing in CHAZ - what could go wrong
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Re: All hail the new People's Republic of... CHAZ?

Post by doodle » Fri Jun 12, 2020 1:35 pm

Isn't there some level of cognitive dissonance when small government libertarians argue against a people's right to self determination? I'm confused....
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Re: All hail the new People's Republic of... CHAZ?

Post by Tyler » Fri Jun 12, 2020 2:30 pm

doodle wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 1:35 pm
Isn't there some level of cognitive dissonance when small government libertarians argue against a people's right to self determination? I'm confused....
I'd wager 99% of the people in the CHAZ camp do not live or work there. It's an occupation. There's absolutely no self-determination for the actual citizens who are being abandoned by one side and threatened by the other.

My guess is that this will break up when an enterprising lawyer organizes property owners to sue the crap out of the city for abdicating their responsibility for the area.
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Re: All hail the new People's Republic of... CHAZ?

Post by stuper1 » Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:20 pm

Libertarian666 wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 9:27 am
Xan wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 9:03 am
pp4me wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 7:31 am
I've heard some people saying Trump doesn't have the legal authority to send in the military.

Say What? Then how is it that the Confederate States of America isn't still a country?
Several states deciding to leave the Union is so different from rioting in the streets that there is no comparison. Raising an army to keep states in the Union has no legal basis. Assisting governors in keeping order does.

The election of Lincoln prompted seven states to secede. It was raising an army to stop them which prompted many others to secede (or try to). This group was led by Virginia. The official number of post-army secessions is 4, but Maryland (and possibly Delaware) would have if not for federal cannons pointing at Baltimore, and Kentucky had representatives in both governments.
Yep.

It's amazing to me how so many people, including otherwise intelligent people like Mark Levin, think Lincoln was a great president.
In reality he was a proto-fascist who pioneered virtually all of the great evils that the later "progressive" presidents re-instituted, including:
1. Income taxation,
2. Unbacked fiat money,
3. Conscription, and
4. Throwing political opponents, including journalists, in jail.
Another great evil he pioneered:

5. Primacy of the federal government over the state governments.

America would have been so much better off if he never was president. Think about it. Probably no Spanish-American war, no World War I, no World War II (for anybody), no cold war, etc. Slavery in America was coming to an end anyway and would have petered out pretty soon on its own, and former slaves probably would have done better in coming to freedom that way than at the point of a gun. No Jim Crow.
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Re: All hail the new People's Republic of... CHAZ?

Post by Xan » Sat Jun 13, 2020 9:15 am

Libertarian666 wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 8:15 am
stuper1 wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:20 pm
Another great evil he pioneered:

5. Primacy of the federal government over the state governments.

America would have been so much better off if he never was president. Think about it. Probably no Spanish-American war, no World War I, no World War II (for anybody), no cold war, etc. Slavery in America was coming to an end anyway and would have petered out pretty soon on its own, and former slaves probably would have done better in coming to freedom that way than at the point of a gun. No Jim Crow.
Yes, of course.

BTW, I thought #5 was obvious, given the war and everything, but it can't hurt to point it out.

Yes, this was the big one, the culmination of a revolution to turn the United States into a completely different form of government.

It was the 14th Amendment, in legal terms, which executed this revolution: before that amendment, there was no concept of a "citizen of the United States" apart from being a citizen of one of the states.

Many states which did not secede, like New Jersey, saw this, and were dead set against the 14th Amendment. The radicals used their 50% majority in the (South-free) Congress in order to force the southern states to vote for the amendment, because they didn't have the votes to pass it without them. Yes, this meant that the southern states were states when it suited the revolutionaries, and that they were not states when it did not suit them.
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Re: All hail the new People's Republic of... CHAZ?

Post by Libertarian666 » Sat Jun 13, 2020 9:42 am

Xan wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 9:15 am
Libertarian666 wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 8:15 am
stuper1 wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:20 pm
Another great evil he pioneered:

5. Primacy of the federal government over the state governments.

America would have been so much better off if he never was president. Think about it. Probably no Spanish-American war, no World War I, no World War II (for anybody), no cold war, etc. Slavery in America was coming to an end anyway and would have petered out pretty soon on its own, and former slaves probably would have done better in coming to freedom that way than at the point of a gun. No Jim Crow.
Yes, of course.

BTW, I thought #5 was obvious, given the war and everything, but it can't hurt to point it out.

Yes, this was the big one, the culmination of a revolution to turn the United States into a completely different form of government.

It was the 14th Amendment, in legal terms, which executed this revolution: before that amendment, there was no concept of a "citizen of the United States" apart from being a citizen of one of the states.

Many states which did not secede, like New Jersey, saw this, and were dead set against the 14th Amendment. The radicals used their 50% majority in the (South-free) Congress in order to force the southern states to vote for the amendment, because they didn't have the votes to pass it without them. Yes, this meant that the southern states were states when it suited the revolutionaries, and that they were not states when it did not suit them.
As usual.
The government cannot be made to follow its own stated rules.
That's why I'm an anarchist.
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Re: All hail the new People's Republic of... CHAZ?

Post by stuper1 » Sat Jun 13, 2020 10:21 am

Apparently Lincoln has had more books written about him than anyone else besides Jesus. Just a few years ago I thought that was a badge of honor. Now I realize it's a badge of dishonor, just a sign of the depth of propaganda needed to prop up the myth and keep people from realizing the dishonest revolution in structure of government that was foisted on the country.
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Re: All hail the new People's Republic of... CHAZ?

Post by pp4me » Sun Jun 14, 2020 5:22 pm

Xan wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 9:03 am
pp4me wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 7:31 am
I've heard some people saying Trump doesn't have the legal authority to send in the military.

Say What? Then how is it that the Confederate States of America isn't still a country?
Several states deciding to leave the Union is so different from rioting in the streets that there is no comparison. Raising an army to keep states in the Union has no legal basis. Assisting governors in keeping order does.

The election of Lincoln prompted seven states to secede. It was raising an army to stop them which prompted many others to secede (or try to). This group was led by Virginia. The official number of post-army secessions is 4, but Maryland (and possibly Delaware) would have if not for federal cannons pointing at Baltimore, and Kentucky had representatives in both governments.
I guess this all depends on how serious the citizens of CHAZ are and how far they want to push the issue of sovereignty. The confederate states gave their answer at Fort Sumter.
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Re: All hail the new People's Republic of... CHAZ?

Post by Maddy » Sun Jun 14, 2020 7:18 pm

Time to reflect upon the Bundy standoff in Oregon in relation to what's happening in Seattle:

https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-06-14- ... -chaz.html
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Re: All hail the new People's Republic of... CHAZ?

Post by I Shrugged » Sun Jun 14, 2020 8:27 pm

I think everyone should ignore CHAZ. Let the city and state sort it out. And civil court if need be. I would think a property owner in there could sue the city and state, at some point.

But otherwise, don’t give them any attention.
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Re: All hail the new People's Republic of... CHAZ?

Post by Tortoise » Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:40 pm

I Shrugged wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 8:27 pm
I think everyone should ignore CHAZ. Let the city and state sort it out. And civil court if need be. I would think a property owner in there could sue the city and state, at some point.

But otherwise, don’t give them any attention.
Hard to argue with that.

The whole CHAZ situation with the crude, hand-scrawled signs reminds of kids playing forts. I outgrew it before I hit puberty, but I guess some people never do.
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Re: All hail the new People's Republic of... CHAZ?

Post by Libertarian666 » Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:25 am

Tortoise wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:40 pm
I Shrugged wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 8:27 pm
I think everyone should ignore CHAZ. Let the city and state sort it out. And civil court if need be. I would think a property owner in there could sue the city and state, at some point.

But otherwise, don’t give them any attention.
Hard to argue with that.

The whole CHAZ situation with the crude, hand-scrawled signs reminds of kids playing forts. I outgrew it before I hit puberty, but I guess some people never do.
The technical name is "LARPing", where LARP = Live Action Role Playing.
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Re: All hail the new People's Republic of... CHAZ?

Post by dualstow » Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:24 pm

RIP Daniel Kahneman | Happy Good Friday
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Re: All hail the new People's Republic of... CHAZ?

Post by dualstow » Tue Jun 16, 2020 11:07 am

Simonjester wrote: 8) 8)
dualstow wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:24 pm
Uh oh, trouble in paradise. O0
https://twitter.com/jason_howerton/stat ... 19873?s=20
8) 8)

>:D
It’s even fun with the sound off. Allows you to focus on his priceless facial expressions.
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Re: All hail the new People's Republic of... CHAZ?

Post by Tyler » Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:07 am

Tyler wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 2:30 pm
My guess is that this will break up when an enterprising lawyer organizes property owners to sue the crap out of the city for abdicating their responsibility for the area.
I'm surprised it took this long. Businesses sue Seattle over ‘occupied’ protest zone
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Re: All hail the new People's Republic of... CHAZ?

Post by dualstow » Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:43 am

hah! Good call.
the article wrote: The owner of the auto shop Car Tender said a burglar broke in the night of June 14, started a fire using hand sanitizer as an accelerant, and then attacked his son with a knife when confronted.
The owner and his son managed to put out the fire and detain the burglar, the complaint said, but police never responded to their 911 calls. A large crowd of “CHOP participants” then came to the scene and forced the owner to release the arsonist, it said.
Good lord.
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Re: All hail the new People's Republic of... CHAZ?

Post by Tortoise » Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:52 pm

Libertarian666 wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:53 pm
The most amazing thing about this whole situation is that there are people who think it is going to keep Trump from being re-elected.
CHAZ/CHOP specifically, or the BLM protests/riots in general? If you mean CHAZ/CHOP specifically, would the criticism (from conservatives, presumably) be that Trump didn't send in the military to stop it?
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Re: All hail the new People's Republic of... CHAZ?

Post by Tortoise » Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:54 pm

Libertarian666 wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:12 pm
But it's pretty obvious to me that he is going to come down on the terrorists like a ton of bricks when the time is right.
I'm guessing right around the Democrat convention, but it will definitely be before the general election.
Not doing anything to stop the lawlessness is about the only way he could lose, and he knows it.
It's an interesting balancing act, for sure. Aside from his warning tweets, it seems like Trump has been very restrained in his handling of the riots around the country, and I think that's probably a smart move. It lets the country and the world see with their own eyes the destruction that happens when the adults stand back and let far-leftist politicians and mobs run amok in big cities for a while. Similar to using an opponent's own momentum to throw him to the ground in judo.
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Re: All hail the new People's Republic of... CHAZ?

Post by boglerdude » Sat Jun 27, 2020 12:14 am

The same group of oligarchs fund both parties. Its good cop bad cop. Trump/government will get expanded powers of surveillance and control.

Then he'll give up those powers and restore gold as money because techno knows he has more goodness in his heart than any other politicians
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Re: All hail the new People's Republic of... CHAZ?

Post by WiseOne » Sat Jun 27, 2020 12:34 pm

There's been large fireworks being exploded all over NYC all night, every night, for a couple of weeks now. It's a problem in other cities too apparently. Well, not "all over." It's in minority neighborhoods as you might guess. There was a post on my neighborhood NextDoor page from someone who tried to call the police. The 311 operator said that the police are not responding to this and it's a "community" matter. People are pissed off to say the least. They are also wondering where these people, who are so in need of welfare and "community investment", are getting the money to buy expensive fireworks. Antifa comes to mind.

Fortunately my little secluded neighborhood is far enough from the minority areas that I'm not losing any sleep. So I can analyze this from an armchair perspective and I'm enjoying it just a bit. A lot of the people who think BLM is the current cool thing and have been so excited about supporting it don't much like crime and disturbances. This is a lot more personal than looting stores and torching police cars. Who knows, it might help turn the tide!
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